A Fallout game that's not depressing, nor heroic, but in between?

for me Fallout was mostly about humanity. we see people managing to prosper even in the worst conditions, they're certainly not cheerful about it, but they do what every other person would do : survive and prosper.

now, each faction uses a different mentality, but the goal of each is to survive using that philosophy and that way of life.

take for example Vault City and how smug they are, they regard themselves are higher and above other wastelanders just because they are from a vault and thus are "civilized" and how they dress up slavery in a pretty clothing and call it something else. It's kinda pathetic and sad, but that's how they managed to live and prosper and if they want to live it like that it's up to them.

"prospering" in Fallout universe doesn't exactly mean people are going to live free and happily ever after or even live in decent condition by our standards, it means living in a "safer" enviroment because in the end that's what counts. a city might be ruled by a ruthless tyrant who can keep the order and keep it's citizens safe, it can also be ruled by a group of crime mobs, or by just one big gang like the Shi. people don't really care as long as they are safe from w/e shit roams the wasteland.

now, the world of Fallout seems pretty grim and cynical in which everyone is out there for themselves. You can either do the same, or be even more ruthless and bad, or be that one rare "knight in shining armor" that moves around the wasteland protecting the people. the good part about previous fallouts was that you "chose" this way of life, it wasn't thrown at you like it was what you were supposed to do. there were no immortal children, you could shoot up a town if you wanted it, you could kill all the bad guys in one place or negotiate with them. it was all up to you, save for a very few, minor stuff.

and nothing is more satisfying to me than playing the good guy even though the game keeps bombarding you with harsh choices and leaves your hand free to make cruel decisions that the people in that setting deem as "normal" behaviour. a mayor may think that the most logical choice is to invade a small town nearby because he thinks they're gonna attack soon, you can go with that, or find that better way to show them both how wrong they are even though you owe that town nothing. It is a more satisfying experience. so you can be that beautiful flower that's blooming inside a very grim, desolate wasteland, weathering all that harshness but refusing to become something like it. it becomes something more, something that turns that desolated scenery into something beautiful.
 
Grim, cynical, dark humour was good for the first three games (I am of course, referring to Fallout 1, 2 and NV), but it's going to get depressingly boring eventually. I found Honest Hearts to be quite endearing without losing the core feeling of Fallout. I wish there was more of the Reno/Vegas styled city stuff with all the crime conspiracies going on, rather than more desert wastes.

I don't come to Fallout solely for the post-apocalypse, I come to Fallout to see humanity get over the post-apocalypse. That is why, for all its flaws and corruption, the NCR holds true as one of the most intriguing factions IMO.

I would really want a Fallout game where one half of the map is a heavily populated urban region with many integrated cities and a lot of crime and politics, while the other half is full of warring tribals (Honest Hearts style) with each tribe in possession of unique settlements. And it's not of ruins either - most ruins on the tribal side of the map would be rebuilt into unique looking forts and camps with an identity of its own, while the city side would be restored Vegas style.

Keep the dark humour, the tone, but I'm not for more rusty shacks, generic tribal camps, and the occasional town built around a single interesting location.

Four mostly wooden settlements, another Great Khans NV style and some elaborate town with the most quests built out of a train station or an airport with everyone griping about how things just keep getting worse and attacks happening everywhere is just going nowhere.

Now that I think about it, I may have more of a problem with the setting than the tone.
 
Well, I think Fallout as seen in Fallout 2 and New Vegas is fine the way it is, I didn't find Goodsprings depressing at all, nor Klamath, they were normal towns trying to rebuild, it captures struggle without having to avoid the idea of civilisation, unlike Bethouts that think the only way to show struggle is a world that never rebuilds
 
Well, I think Fallout as seen in Fallout 2 and New Vegas is fine the way it is, I didn't find Goodsprings depressing at all, nor Klamath, they were normal towns trying to rebuild, it captures struggle without having to avoid the idea of civilisation, unlike Bethouts that think the only way to show struggle is a world that never rebuilds

Hey Fallout isn't that depressing.
 
Well, I think Fallout as seen in Fallout 2 and New Vegas is fine the way it is, I didn't find Goodsprings depressing at all, nor Klamath, they were normal towns trying to rebuild, it captures struggle without having to avoid the idea of civilisation, unlike Bethouts that think the only way to show struggle is a world that never rebuilds

Hey Fallout isn't that depressing.

Well, I agree, but I think Elder meant that Bethesda can only display depression by having the world never progress, while Fallout 2 and New Vegas can have the world progress and still show struggle. That's how I interpreted it.
 
I feel if anything that first person Fallout has been too bright and optimistic and sets too light a tone overall. As somebody put it flattering, there's too much "power gaming faggotry" even in New Vegas.

Radiation has almost no long-term consequences. The Fatboy even trivializes the whole point of radiation in a game that's called Fallout. Sure, you can have a tactical nuke, but you'd most assuredly give yourself a good does of radiation poisoning while you're at it. How the heck am I supposed to be impressed by your nuclear war that supposedly ruined the world when I can just use a 20 cap RadAway and cure myself of the leukemia that's allegedly setting in?

In NV, you can just cure chem addiction for 25 caps, while being told that Freeside has this problem with drug addiction and there are all these pain-benumbed and drug-addled Fiends giving NCR a hard time around Camp McCarran.

Note, that I'm not saying it should all be depressing, but you can't tell me the tone is anything approaching dark if you're not going to give those dark bits the punch it deserves. I wish there was more deliberate weight to the world and not just this floppy zany Saturday Morning Cartoon feel to it when I rifle through a 200 year gas station and can subsist perfectly off a box of candied apples from before the War. God sure. Yeah that survival is really a concern in this postapocalyptic waste.

Even Nuka Cola as an item isn't properly respected. It was kind of a zany concept to start with but at least you're told that it was usually quite flat and warm in FO1 and FO2. In Bethesdaverse Fallout, you still have endless stocks of these fizzy fucking things for some reason. I'm watching Youtube personalities having a discussion about "manky" soda and whether it'd be a good idea to drink it in Last of Us after 20-ish years even if it doesn't taste great. But in Fallout, there are so many of these incongruities, I'm numb to them and have to push away the questions to the detriment of the tone.

And then I'm slapping a Red dot reflex sight onto a fucking pipe rifle. Give me a break.
 
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