A Pre-War Fallout Pentimento

Something I always pictured when it came to pre-war Fallout cities is the seediness and degeneracy of Watchmen's NYC. I feel it fits perfectly.

I'm not talking about the architecture or technology here per say, but aesthetic wise, the grunginess of an overcrowded city on the verge of apocalypse. As you guys have pointed out, living in America near the end must've been awful. Too many people, not enough space or resources to go around. The type of dirtiness NYC had in the 80s is reflected perfectly in the comic and I feel it works fantastically for the Fallout universe. Here are some examples.

watchmen-easter-eggs-display.jpg

watchmen-rorschach.jpg

main-qimg-7a02f7beb612643cc9ffc59a5025ba13-lq

comics-watchmen-wallpaper-preview.jpg


The look and feel of Watchmen is something I personally think fits great with the Fallout universe, specifically the Interplay/Obsidian side of Fallout's universe. Everything from the political tension in the comic to the downright disgusting portrayal of NYC from Rorschach's viewpoint and experiences. It feels like a true overcrowded city in chaos, especially as the story goes on and the doomsday clock closes towards midnight. There's a quote from the philosopher/composer Jean-Jacques Rosseau that says "Cities are the abyss of the human species." It's as relevant today as it was in 1762, and judging by the grandiosity of Fallout's cities I can't imagine it would look anything less than abysmal to live in. Ironically, Bethesda's Fallouts lean more towards 1950s utopia, however I always imagines Fallout is more of the 70s/80s dystopia that was real and present in our time.

main_1200.jpg

Heavily_tagged_subway_car_in_NY.jpg

955d92579e9e4d74c22755598f6405b4.jpg


Anyone agree/disagree?
 
Last edited:
Taxi Driver has that seediness as well I think.

How about the mega cities in Judge Dredd?

e: Why aren't there flying cars in Fallout? It would have been cool to have the world littered in wrecks that had fallen from the sky.
 
Last edited:
I would think that the pre-war setting of Fallout would closely match the expected fantasy future of the 1950's [popculture]. As such the world would not be believable or realistic. Imagine the setting of The Forbidden Planet, were the crew of the C-57D to have been seen at home (Earth) before their mission. Can you envision them living in (or tolerating) the seedy world you describe? I believe that the unrealistic 50's ideal for the future extends to the people's very core sense of values—that they are just as idealized as the expectation of the world setting. That they are all basically the Cleaver family, and the to an extent later the Douglas & Davis families (of My Three Sons, and Family Affair), for the same reasons of the influence to the future's setting—which they themselves are part of.

Things change only —after— the war; where new cultures arise out of the wasted wreckage of their Utopian [future] past. Tim Cain might point out that in their pre-war past that it was obvious that the government was lying to the population about the effects of the atom bomb, and point out that Vault-Tec was double dealing to profit both directly from the war and directly from its population's fear & aftermath of the war, by selling survival/preparation/coping equipment alongside military weaponry.

So there is a dark thread to even the pre-war utopia, but not a public presence. There would be no seedy public spaces —that would cause a fake/moralizing crackdown IMO to protect and restore public image; but there could be the prohibition-coffee-shop—style establishments like the hidden casinos, and booze joints of that earlier era, but possibly worse.

*Strangely I do think their could be a 'Skid Row', one rather akin to our own present day situation with vagrants in tents under city bridges and overpasses, contentedly using their mobile phones; in their case, other gadgets, and salvaged robots as well.

Proletären said:
It would have been cool to have the world littered in wrecks that had fallen from the sky.
Click to expand...
This was Bethesda's lost opportunity. They were depicting a major city; the Capital city. With DC they could have shown a wrecked metropolis like the Chicago from Tactics, with all of it's World Of Tomorrow tech destroyed.

aircar.jpg
 
Last edited:
Gizmojunk said:
I would think that the pre-war setting of Fallout would closely match the expected fantasy future of the 1950's [popculture]. As such the world would not be believable or realistic. Imagine the setting of The Forbidden Planet, were the crew of the C-57D to have been seen at home (Earth) before their mission. Can you envision them living in (or tolerating) the seedy world you describe? I believe that the unrealistic 50's ideal for the future extends to the people's very core sense of values—that they are just as idealized as the expectation of the world setting. That they are all basically the Cleaver family, and the to an extent later the Douglas & Davis families (of My Three Sons, and Family Affair), for the same reasons of the influence to the future's setting—which they themselves are part of.

Things change only —after— the war; where new cultures arise out of the wasted wreckage of their Utopian [future] past. Tim Cain might point out that in their pre-war past that it was obvious that the government was lying to the population about the effects of the atom bomb, and point out that Vault-Tec was double dealing to profit both directly from the war and directly from its population's fear & aftermath of the war, by selling survival/preparation/coping equipment alongside military weaponry.

So there is a dark thread to even the pre-war utopia, but not a public presence. There would be no seedy public spaces —that would cause a fake/moralizing crackdown IMO to protect and restore public image; but there could be the prohibition-coffee-shop—style establishments like the hidden casinos, and booze joints of that earlier era, but possibly worse.

*Strangely I do think their could be a 'Skid Row', one rather akin to our own present day situation with vagrants in tents under city bridges and overpasses, contentedly using their mobile phones; in their case, other gadgets, and salvaged robots as well.

This was Bethesda's lost opportunity. They were depicting a major city; the Capital city. With DC they could have shown a wrecked metropolis like the Chicago from Tactics, with all of it's World Of Tomorrow tech destroyed.

View attachment 26883
Click to expand...
I believe that things were starting to unravel in the years leading up to the Great War.
 
The too many humans and not enough space or resources to go around mentioned in the intro must have catched up with them in the decade leading up to the war. Before that it was probably as @Gizmojunk described it.
 
Gizmojunk said:
Can you envision them living in (or tolerating) the seedy world you describe?
Click to expand...

Near the end, definitely. I’ve always felt the 50s utopia of the pre-war was a nicely painted layer to cover up the strife underneath in the years of the Resource Wars and leading up to the end. I have no doubts that the shiny futuristic utopia existed at some point in the Fallout universe, perhaps from the 1950s onward to the 21st century, but during the 2040s to the 2070s when doomsday creeped closer and closer and resources skyrocketed the cost of living (according to the Fallout Bible) to full crisis and eventually full blown war, I don’t think people had much of a choice but to live or tolerate this type of world. We see evidence of things like hippies with the graffiti in New Vegas protesting war, and hippies are a thing of counter culture. Meaning the populace of the world wasn’t just 100% brainwashed into a commie-hating blind utopia.

Gizmojunk said:
Things change only —after— the war; where new cultures arise out of the wasted wreckage of their Utopian [future] past. Tim Cain might point out that in their pre-war past that it was obvious that the government was lying to the population about the effects of the atom bomb, and point out that Vault-Tec was double dealing to profit both directly from the war and directly from its population's fear & aftermath of the war, by selling survival/preparation/coping equipment alongside military weaponry.

So there is a dark thread to even the pre-war utopia, but not a public presence.
Click to expand...

I see what you mean, however what we’re shown of pre-war society in these Vault-Tec ads and government issued survival guides is just that — a government picture of American society and not directly the society itself. I don’t think the American people were stupid or that heavily brainwashed before the war that they would just cartoonishly not realize the blatant dystopian nature of their living situations, especially in the Resource War era. And as I’ve mentioned, the evidence of war protesting hippies and even the militarization of LAPD riot police suggest harsh tension on the home front.

Gizmojunk said:
There would be no seedy public spaces —that would cause a fake/moralizing crackdown IMO to protect and restore public image; but there could be the prohibition-coffee-shop—style establishments like the hidden casinos, and booze joints of that earlier era, but possibly worse.
Click to expand...

Although Las Vegas was never known to be moral in any sense of the matter, it should be noted Gomorrah was a Pre-War casino restored by House, and you can find Gomorrah billboards on the roads of Nevada advertising such a seedy public space. But I do like the idea of prohibition hidden business. It should be noted though that the prohibition era and even the 1930s after it ended had many dirty public places known. Adult clubs, peep shows, brothels in the Depression, cities like NYC and LA have always had these kinds of things outside of Skid Row
 
JunjiItosGio said:
— a government picture of American society and not directly the society itself.
Click to expand...
How do we know that? I wouldn't say that the Fallout world setting was ever the Earth we know. It's a GURPS campaign setting, a 'What If' world in similar vein to the Marvel Comic series of the same name. A what-if world where the future really turned out like they expected of it—people and all.

I don’t think the American people were stupid or that heavily brainwashed before the war that they would just cartoonishly not realize the blatant dystopian nature of their living situations, especially in the Resource War era.
Click to expand...
I certainly don't think they were stupid... but they could certainly could be cartoonish; not a reference the art style.
 
The Last of Us does PA well - skyscrapers falling over and plant life actually growing instead of a boring desert everywhere.
 
Gizmojunk said:
This was Bethesda's lost opportunity. They were depicting a major city; the Capital city. With DC they could have shown a wrecked metropolis like the Chicago from Tactics, with all of it's World Of Tomorrow tech destroyed.

View attachment 26883
Click to expand...
DC proper has a decent-ish excuse: Today, there is a height limit on buildings in DC, no. building can be more than 160 feet, so as not to overshadow or obscure the commanding position of the Washington Monument on the skyline. It makes sense that this tradition would be held up into the 2070s, and that in general the government would strive for the place to have a more 'classical' feel.

The same cannot be said for the settlements across the river, Arlington or Alexandria: While neither are exactly skyscraper-strewn megalopolises, they do have a fair few skyscrapers that go higher than the DC limit (though none are taller than the Washington Monumnet, but I'm not sure if this is by ordinance or happenstance).

Could have been a neat contrast - on the one hand you have a classical and quaint DC that speaks to a 1950s yesteryear with only a few futuristic accoutrements, overshadowed on the right bank of the Potomac by insanely vast, menacing, and futuristic skyscrapers in Arlington and Alexandria.
 
I mentioned Chicago, and that certainly brings the towering silver cityscape from Tactics to mind, but point of fact I didn't mean it that way, not super tall buildings; mentioning the Jetsons didn't help either. What I meant was that DC is not a desert in the middle of nowhere. Being a major city they would be a major technology hub, with air cars, and mag-trains, hover bikes, powered sidewalks, and all manner of personal and public gadgetry.
 
Gizmojunk said:
I mentioned Chicago, and that certainly brings the towering silver cityscape from Tactics to mind, but point of fact I didn't mean it that way, not super tall buildings; mentioning the Jetsons didn't help either. What I meant was that DC is not a desert in the middle of nowhere. Being a major city they would be a major technology hub, with air cars, and mag-trains, hover bikes, powered sidewalks, and all manner of personal and public gadgetry.
Click to expand...
fair enough - though I would note that there are mag trains in Fallout 3, see the monorails criss crossing the countryside with no apparent wheels
 
PaxVenire said:
I haven't heard or played the game, so that's something for you to talk about, what's your take on it?
Click to expand...

Moi?! Well, ok, let's try it. I don't have many images here so I will try. Plus the imageposting feature is not working right now.

Well, X-COM Apocalypse is the third of the Original X-COM Trilogy (UFO Defense, Terror From The Deep, Apocalypse). UFO Defense was situated in the (then) near-future of 1999, and throughly stepped in the UFO Conspiracy Theory mileau (like The X-Files), the old UFO series for lots of inspiration, as well as the other 90s aesthetics influences like an Animesque Image Comics Rob Liefieldian Art-style.

(btw if you like that kind of Conspiracypunk, I recommend downloading The X-COM Files mod for Open X-COM)

Dear Section Commander
Welcome to X-COM (Extraterrestrial Combat Unit). You are now a part of a tradition that spans
back to the late 1990's. Let me appraise you of X-COM's activities to date, more importantly, the
activities of the Aliens we have encountered.
Back in the mid 1990's it became evident that "we were not alone". By 1998, UFOs began to land
openly in rural areas; the aim of these early missions was the abduction of local inhabitants and
animals. Our first military contact with the Aliens led to the massacre of an entire squad. In
November of that year, and emergency meeting was convened at the United Nations. As a result of
that meeting, X-COM was established. In the following years, X-COM waged war against the Alien
menace. Most of this activity occurred in the cities and rural areas of Earth, but eventually
it took us to the Alien's main Base on Mars (Cydonia).
Our victory at Cydonia saw the defeat of the immediate Alien threat, but, in its turn reawakened
a second of destruction that X-COM were later enlisted to counter.
Click to expand...


The second game happens is the farther future of 2045. TFTD is essentially a same engine slam dunk sequel. We don't get so much fleshing out of the world of TFTD, but AFAIK its implied to be an increasingly cyberpunk world of corporate power and large nation-states taking over the smaller ones in the wake of the original alien invasion. Lots of inspirations from things like The Kraken Awakens and H.P Lovecraft.

Alien activity began once more in 2039. X-COM had only a nominal existence at this time; most of
our Bases were decommissioned or converted into Theme Parks. The call for the re-institution of
X-COM was led by the media after numerous ship and aircraft losses at sea. Years of recession and
political feuding meant that funding from the world's governments was not forthcoming; we had to
raise the money by alternative corporate means.
From 2041, after the initial recruitment in 2040, the second Alien war was waged under the seas
and oceans of the world. The war came to its climax in the battle at the Alien city of T'leth.
Buried underwater for 65 million years, the city had the ability to destroy the Earth.
Fortunately, we discovered that Alien society was constructed like that of the bees and after
killing the Alien 'Queen', everything else disintegrated.
Click to expand...


X-COM Apocalypse is a quite different beast from the OG X-COMs. I think "Flawed Gem" is a common term used for it, its one of those millenium-era games that experimented with trying to satisfy Greeks and Trojans, by having both turn-based and real-time combat - like Arcanum and Fallout Tactics did.

Whereas the two first games focused on protecting the planet, X-COM Apocalypse focuses on a single futuristic mega-city, called Megaprimus. Earth became a toxic hellscape, partly because of human-caused pollution and enviromental collapse, but the real destructive finish was the destruction of T'leth, the City-Ship of the second game's aliens. It essentially broke the environment. Humanity managed by migrating out of Earth, or living in huge futuristic megacities proofed against the increasingly toxic enviroment of Planet Earth. The game is focused on the foremost of those, Megaprimus.

Now for Megaprimus itself, it looks like a Futuristic 50s Techtopia. Flying cars, learning things through devices that insert the knowledge within you, abundant food and water, robots do much of the work, anti-grav, space travel is common, the government is relatively small, abundant energy, zap guns, cool radiator fins and all. Women don't even carry children anymore, they have "Procreation Parks" instead, where people can see their children growing inside artificial wombs. Megaprimus is a shining megalopolis, the future of humanity.


T'leth rose from the water only to self-destruct; a sight I don't think any present at that time
will forget. Since then we have had few recorded encounters. X-COM and Marsec however, were
enlisted in the late 2060's to fight a territorial war against Aliens in the newly established
deep space mining colonies. This conflict left Earth uncontaminated... that was until a short
while ago, when the first Dimension-Gate appeared; right here in Mega-Primus.
Click to expand...


However, not all is right in Megaprimus. Not right at all. Megaprimus's shining facade is exactly that: Facade.


Megaprimus' leaders noticed something was wrong with the city. Too much societal strife, too much crime, strange cult activity. Everything just... started getting worse. So they started suspecting alien subversion and re-activated the X-COM Protocol to deal with it.

Unfortunately, the last four years have seen this comfortable, low-cost lifestyle rapidly
deteriorate. The social and physical fabric of our society has decayed at an alarming rate;
sociologists have been, as yet, unable to explain the cause of decay. Statistics clearly
demonstrate increases in physical and cyberspace violence, family breakdowns, crime, ethnic
unrest and strange cult group involvement.
The frequency and pace at which incidents are occurring, is even more disturbing. The concern of
the citizens is evident. Many have already fled the city. The ongoing mass migration increases
the concern of all remaining citizens as each day passes. Losses in tax revenue are restricted
to the city's ability to deal with incidents and the emergency services are unable to do any more
than fire-fight existing problems.

Unless we deal with the source of the problem, social collapse appears to be a very real
possibility! Whilst the Senate remains unconvinced that Alien interference is the source of
the problems, they have secretly agreed to fund a covert investigation by X-COM.
Due to your recent promotion, we have decided that you shall be responsible for this
investigation. We will forward existing information to you shortly.
Yours faithfully
J.G Steinbach
Click to expand...


Remember when I said Megaprimus' gleam was facade? That's what you get to find out, as Section Commander of X-COM. Megaprimus, in reality, is a Philip K. Dick style dystopic mess mixed with Judge Dredd:

- Most of the services are done by Corporations, and many of them have their own agendas. Even the police (Megapol) is a corporation.
- There is significant under-class, and the under-classes, often dissidents of the current system, live in dilapidated slums, buildings of old Earth.
- Megaprimus has a racial divide, between Humans, Hybrid (Human/Sectoid hybrids, essentially they're part-grey) and Androids (think Replicants or Terminators). The Hybrids and Androids decided to create their own organizations fighting for their rights, the Mutant Alliance and Sentient Engine Liberation Front (S.E.L.F), respectively.
- The gangs sell Psiclone, an "ilegal and addictive drug" that allows people to live out their imaginations and dreams.
- Meanwhile, Sensovision technology is a "legal" and "safe" psi-technology, allowing people to watch something more like "psychic television".
- Most of the corporations are shady as fuck and many don't like each other
- Megaprimus has three organized crime gangs and they often engage in battles with the police, often including running flying car dog fights.
- The two main political parties are pretty much the same
- The people that educate people by implanting knowledge in their minds are implied to be brainwashing them
- The Cult of Sirius worships aliens and are ready and willing to help their alien "liberators", and hold much power and influence.
- Energy comes from Fusion Power and Elerium, the later being a trans-uranic element used by the aliens of the first game. Elerium comes from colonies which are controlled from Earth by corporations like Marsec at the behest of corporations like Solmine.
- Many organizations are very much willing to thrown X-COM under the bus and side with the aliens.

And all of that BEFORE the Aliens invade and take over like an infection (literally), setting the stage for a transdimensional Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Another 50s influence out there, natch.

Much of the lore is very 70-80s dystopia, althrough there are elements that are quite 50s esque.
Going back to the main topic, I think X-COM Apocalypse's entire artstyle is very similar to the one in Fallout. The difference is that it lacks the Grime and Bulkiness of Fallout, on the whole. X-COM Apocalypse has more of a "sleek chrome buck rodgers" feel, while Fallout goes towards a grittier and bulkier feel as a rule. Fallout seems to go towards a bulkier, "doohickey" feel - especially the first games.

As for Megaprimus, minding the fact Megaprimus is obviously more advanced than the Pre-War Fallout universe, I think something like Megaprimus would fit somewhere in the Fallout universe - as either a proof-of-concept "City of Tomorrow" of the Fallout universe made out of bleeding edge technology, or what the Fallout universe would become, if the bombs were never launched and the US made it intact after the war against China. The most advanced capitals (NY perhaps?) of the Fallout universe pre-war might have looked like more realistic, "Early Access" versions of Megaprimus - All shiny steel and chrome and flying cars and 50s americana, the rot beneath is relegated to where it is out of sight, out of mind, while the underlying society is dying and collapsing.

Megaprimus' look strikes me more of a traditional 50s modern futuristic city, in comparison to the more gothic and dark look of the pre-war Fallout world, but its closer to the style of say, pre-war Chicago from FOT or pre-war Boston. One important factor is that Megaprimus is a new city (through AFAIK I think it was supposed to be in the site of old Montreal? I don't remember where I heard that), unlike the Fallout cities.

One difference is that Megaprimus' 50s retro-futuristic look is very much intentional by the local authorities, its a directive, while Fallout IS a 50s retro-future. One could say Megaprimus is a 70-80s cyberpunk dystopia that choose to clothe itself in 50s retro-utopia covering, while the Fallout world is a 50s retro-future in both name and the ways its dystopic.
 
5939a7787ab5f9f6c3bafe7934fec96d.jpg
daniel-boles-bolescityrender.jpg
kitbash3d-kitbash3d-deco-img-003.jpg
vincenzo-barkasy-artdeco-city-painting01-final-02-vb.jpg
future_city_3_by_peteamachree_d33muay.jpg
DC.jpg


Some concept art I found online that I feel would fit the Fallout pre-war in certain ways based on the criteria discussed in this thread. Some more than others. Personally I think the 1st, 3rd, and 4th work best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top