accessories and charisma

A

Asherael

First time out of the vault
certain clothing, accessories, drugs should boost your charisma among some people and lower it for others. I know that in 1 and 2 there were yes/no switches for whether you were accepted or turned away, for certain things, i'd like to see more of it and more of a ranged scale.

A leather jacket should make you popular around leatherhead types but unpopular in NCR

smoking for a charisma bonus because it makes you cool
 
Not a bad idea, if it were properly designed and tested. It shouldn't be nearly as stupid as in Fable, so it could work, what you mentioned seems interesting though. I've always thought though that chemical stimulants boosting charisma is unrealistic and stupid. Charisma is basically social elements of physical features, and socially acceptable charming qualities, how can a chem boost that? Unless it's intial euphoric rush cause your character to become nicer and more flexible in terms of kindness and non hostility. Anyway great idea, but weaker more lackluster versions of your idea was done in Fallout[2].
 
Mentats make you smarter, which means you are more capable of dealing with other people, thus you are more charming.

Charisma does not only stand for your outer look, and in Arcanum they split it into two attributes. (And, in Arcanum there are clothes affecting the NPCs' attitude)


Anyway, more interactions towards specific gears/ items is a cool idea. (Though there are some in the original game) It's satisfying to walk in New Reno in your power armor.
 
I was confused by the fact that, even in the encapsulating armor, Mrs. Wright could somehow still tell I was a tribal... Although it did lead into the very funny line about how you *got* the armor, but nonetheless... Charisma is sort of a combo of how slick you are and how goodlooking you are. For an extreme example, take Adolph Hitler. Perhaps the most brilliant orator in the century, but he was a short, ugly little man, and not particularly intelligent, yet he managed to convince a lot of people that his fucked up ideas were actually *good*.

If it were up to me I'd put somewhere on the character screen an "appearance" figure, taking into consideration things like if you're a ghoul, a mutant, what perks you've taken (things like Sex Appeal, you know the stuff), what you're wearing, etc. I'd also make separate slots for the armor items like a "head" slot for gas masks, mirrored shades, riot helmets, etc. I'd also have two separate torso armor slots, so you could wear a bullet-proof vest under your leather jacket, but the bullet-proof vest's modifiers would only apply to torso shots. Anyway, so as to make it simple, a suit of power armor, and environment suit, or anything else contiguous like that, would just be dropped into the "outer" torso slot and it would automatically fill in all the slots it applied to, and dump anything else into the main inventory. Anyway the "Appearance" number would affect your applied charisma rolls, and it could be NPC-specific; I.E. a scientist won't really care if you're spiffy looking, he'll care if you are eloquent, while a simple farmer may be swayed by your well-kept leather coat (with two sleeves, even!) and cowboy boots.
 
A really good idea...Hey maybe someone knows:do those "dark glases" in Fallout 2 (if you check em in the inventory it writes:just having them in your inventory makes you feel cool) do they add charistma?
 
Wear it(put it in an active slot) and watch your charisma bumping up by 1.
And, its name should be "mirrored shades"
 
Heh heh. Honestly, in this part of Europe we call then "dark glasses" (e.g. ciemne okulary ;) )

I thought the shades were useless until quite recently; The description *is* vague.

Fallout 3 suggestion: Don't screw up descriptions.
 
Lord 342 said:
I was confused by the fact that, even in the encapsulating armor, Mrs. Wright could somehow still tell I was a tribal... Although it did lead into the very funny line about how you *got* the armor, but nonetheless... Charisma is sort of a combo of how slick you are and how goodlooking you are. For an extreme example, take Adolph Hitler. Perhaps the most brilliant orator in the century, but he was a short, ugly little man, and not particularly intelligent, yet he managed to convince a lot of people that his fucked up ideas were actually *good*.

If it were up to me I'd put somewhere on the character screen an "appearance" figure, taking into consideration things like if you're a ghoul, a mutant, what perks you've taken (things like Sex Appeal, you know the stuff), what you're wearing, etc. I'd also make separate slots for the armor items like a "head" slot for gas masks, mirrored shades, riot helmets, etc. I'd also have two separate torso armor slots, so you could wear a bullet-proof vest under your leather jacket, but the bullet-proof vest's modifiers would only apply to torso shots. Anyway, so as to make it simple, a suit of power armor, and environment suit, or anything else contiguous like that, would just be dropped into the "outer" torso slot and it would automatically fill in all the slots it applied to, and dump anything else into the main inventory. Anyway the "Appearance" number would affect your applied charisma rolls, and it could be NPC-specific; I.E. a scientist won't really care if you're spiffy looking, he'll care if you are eloquent, while a simple farmer may be swayed by your well-kept leather coat (with two sleeves, even!) and cowboy boots.
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Very good ideas, I've always wanted the ability to hide a flak vest under my leather jacket, and maybe a gas mask for self protection against harmful compounds in the environment. By the way when I was in the advanced Enclave power armor every time I tried to speak to one of the Mordino gangsters they always said "how do you take a piss in that thing" so there is a little bit of recognition just not enough of it. But yeah Charisma is social skills, charming qualities, and personal physical features, so breaking down charisma into socially charming elements, and physical appearance is a smart idea. Especially with differences in apparel/armor to fit your general location and who you're talking to.
 
drugs

using stimulnts themselves wouldnt boost your charisma. but being high around druggies has a way to make people more welcome.
 
Well... I think in Van Buren there would be a seperate slot for your head part (You could make armors with science skill and helmets were a seperate thing to create. And also I heard that in VB, PC's meshes were made with and without a helmet). I read that Bethesda got the Van Buren's notes on production.

I hope they put this thing into consideration.

And the idea of two torso slots would be great. I always liked wearing leather jacket, yet it was one of the less (maybe the worst) protective armors in the game.

But adding "Appearance" on char. sheet will ruin the SPECIAL I think. Well it will look like SPECIAAL or sth :). But "Appearance" can still be made as a hidden script in the game. Just like the change of reactions of NPCs depending on PC's armor in FO2.
 
I think Appearance would rather be a derived stat (like Initiative and so on).

Anyway. I think the best variant is the Reaction Modifier.

For example: a gas mask might add a negative reaction modifier when dealing with tribals, but a positive one among raiders and wouldn't affect others at all.
Okay, not the most realistic example, but it should get the point accross.

I think it'd have to be a bit more complex tho. Mirrored shades would probably make you look more arrogant and not everyone would like that. The individual reaction modifiers might be calculated by adding together values like "arrogance", "ragginess" and so on. That could become absurdly complex though.
 
Got your point there Ashmo.

Well, as I said earlier, I think the armor the PC wear should affect the NPC reactions. But not in a complex way as you said. I mean, who wouldn't love to pay a visit to Arroyo in a party wearing Power Armors and scare the hell outta the Elder? :) Well, that maybe too much sadistic but that would be nice...

So to sum my thoughts up, when PC is wearing a mask a new introduction screen should come up on dialogues (even if you talked with them before and even if it's your parents or sth.) it should be like "who the hell are you? what the hell do you want from me?" and then PC will have the chance to either threat the NPC or say sth. like "I'm blah blah don't you remember me?"...

Well, that got much more complex anyway :). Better left it out in it's basics with the exception of being able to wear helmets, glasses, boots separately...
 
Fall_ark said:
Mentats make you smarter, which means you are more capable of dealing with other people, thus you are more charming.
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Sorry, but this just makes me laugh. To provide a counterpoint to your hypothesis and a correlation to Lord 342's example of Hitler, I ask you: How charming is Stephen Hawking?

Sure, he was funny on Futurama, but that's not the point.
 
We're talking about more or less normal people here talking drugs

Your average vault dweller is not a wheel chair bound genius with a type-N-talk computer...

Nor will your average vault dweller be a 1940's psychopath who knows how to use nationalism to take over a country....

For the average person, being more intelligent will make you more 'charming' or 'attractive.' I dont know about the rest of you, but i'd rather talk to someone who is well spoken and has some semblance of intelligence...
 
certain clothing, accessories, drugs should boost your charisma among some people and lower it for others.

A leather jacket should make you popular around leatherhead types but unpopular in NCR
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Wouldn't that make it a little too complex? I mean, it would be nice if clothing would have more stats, like in Arcanum, but if the reaction would differ from town to town or race to race, the overall usefulness of clothing could become a problem. You'd need to drag like 5 types of armour along with you, just to be on the safe side.

"Oh shit, I see a bunch of raiders! Better slip into my Metal Armour..."
[takes off Leather Armour and puts on Metal Armour]
"Oh no, they're not raiders. They're from the Brotherhood of Steel! Damn... Now where did I leave my Brotherhood of Steel Armour?"
[takes of Metal Armour and stands butt naked in the wasteland]

Think about random encounters. They would become a fashion show.

It would be neat to travel the wasteland in a Smoking Jacket, though. In a Smoking Jacket and a Top Hat. Wielding a Plasma Rifle. :)

Noise penalties would be a good thing as well, IMO. Liked that feature in Tactics. Stealthy characters shouldn't be sneaking around in Power Armour. It just doesn't make sense.

The Mirrored Shades from Fallout 2 should be in Fallout 3 as well. But they shouldn't have to be put in one of your active slots, that was stupid. There should be a slot for head gear. And no double slots. You either wear Mirrored Shades (CH bonus) or some helmet (more damage resistance), not both. Same for body armour. You need to make choices, that's what's fun.

smoking for a charisma bonus because it makes you cool
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How would you implement smoking in an efficient way? A smoking slot? Nah, that's just stupid. And 'using' a cigarette for a +1 CH bonus? Smoking a cigarette takes about 5 minutes. That would be a short termed bonus indeed.

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Tempistfury:

Your mistake was actually taking me seriously. :wink:

However, to be serious, in real life, it's not about how smart you are alone. It's about how smart you are compared with who you're dealing with. People generally (and by using that word, I am generalizing, I know) tend to like other people who are similar to themselves, or how they perceive themselves, or how they want to be. Differences in intelligence, appearance, personality, wealth, culture, interests, lifestyles, and social skills between two people can result in intimidation, fear, disgust, pity, hatred, all sorts of negative feelings and emotions, and those develop into prejudices. The result? A person will make friends with people he doesn't feel inferior or superior to (of course, this mostly applies only to healthy friendships).

Now, whatever the devs do in game is between them and the project lead, but I would like to see something like that implemented, even though it would probably be too time-consuming.

On the subject of drugs and the world of Fallout, there are some NPCs, and even entire towns, that dislike drugs. Conversely, some don't care, but the only ones I could think of that like people who use drugs are other users and some dealers. In my imagination, if an NPC sees you take drugs, or realizes you are under the effects, after-effects, or withdrawals of the drug, this could influence their disposition toward you.

And even if a junkie likes you because you use the same kinds of drugs, he might get pissed at you if you hold out.
 
I don't think clothing would have very much to say in fallout, because it's a devastated nuclear disaster wasteland, you use what clothes you have, so does everybody else, you're lucky to even have clothes. Thus, if you have lots of armour, lots of bruises and stuff, people look at you as a fighter, it deosn't matter if the armour is made of leather, metal, or both. Also, there would be less, if any armours and clothing similar to eachother, except from pre-war armours though. But some people, raiders for example would put lots of nickle tickle on they're combat armour, but an NCR ranger wouldn't.

So basicly it would be common to be uncommon, that's why you wouldn't be judged much by your clothes unless you wear something really special.

Hope that made sense, I'll excuse eventual typing and/or grammar mistakes by me beeing at school now, very warm, very tired and extremely hungry :P
 
I don't think it would be THAT hard to make the clothing system Arcanum-like. And clothes could add to a derived class(appearance or something). The thing is clothes DID matter from the first human civilizations until now.(clans in Scotland had kilts, crusaders had crosses and uniforms, turks, greeks, all of them could be easily recognized by their clothes). And the way you choose to wear in the game is about the group you represent, its not about changing clothes all the times, you social chameleons :wink: . It would be like many many slavers-like joining ceremony. And many clothing slots system is much cooler to be disregarded because some minor flaws. Look, I got shades, I am an arrogant Citizen from Vault City 8)

PS: pls, excuse my bad english.
 
I think clothing should have less of an effect than people think it must. If you are wearing the signature pieces of armor/clothing of a particular group then, like everyone has mentioned it must have effects, either positive or negative on an NPC. But if you are wearing say a bandana you scrounged from some raider's corpse, a cool leather jacket, a pink feather boa around your neck and some tight pants, the people will think you're a nut but they wont automatically think that you are there to kill their daughter, it would have so much less of an effect than say you're personality. Also you should be able to convince people you're not a raider and you just stole their clothing, only to slughter them a little while later. :wink:
 
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