Am I misremembering the BoS from 1+2?

Z

Zorbe

First time out of the vault
Hi everyone, just joined. I was just replaying New Vegas recently, and I was reminded of a question that's been on my mind.

Granted, it's been a LONG time since I played 1, but I don't remember the Brotherhood of Steel being as douchey as they're portrayed in 3 and NV. If I remember right, their mission was to preserve technology, not hoard it like the subjects of an AETV show. They were suspicious of outsiders, but not to the point where they thought it was their holy duty to keep machines out of the hands of lesser people. They traded weapons for food, responded to the super mutant threat, and Vree's autopsy showed they were an organization with the capability to produce knowledge as well as holding it. They didn't object to your character carrying an energy weapon.

So where does this idea that the Brotherhood is a band of greedy, xenophobic tech raiders come from? Was there some hint to this in the first two games that I missed?
 
Well I remember the BoS in 1 and 2 the same way you do, and they are different in NV. I always imagined it was because of the NCR-BoS war. I mean, their mission has always been to hoard technology so they could slowly reintroduce it when the rest of humanity was ready, but then they got their ass kicked by the 'lesser' NCR, and that has to have some impact on how they see things. I mean, NV Elder McNamara was so traumatized by HELIOS-1 he basically locked himself and his chapter away in the bunker so it isn't much of a stretch to think losing to NCR turned most of them into greedy xenophobic tech raiders.
They were about 'hoard technology to help humanity' but when that same humanity beat them like a red-headed stepchild no one was really hot about that second part, I imagine, and so only 'hoard technology' was left.
 
I guess that makes sense. I was thinking that at least in Fallout 3, the split between the Lyon-ites and the Outcasts seemed to be one of priority. The Outcasts simply thought that finding technology was more important than helping wastelanders, which is a far cry from the Mojave Brotherhood being dogmatically opposed to helping people.

Still, it's said that the Mojave chapter is following the codex, which has presumably been around since the beginning of the Brotherhood. I suppose you could argue that the founders' will had been misinterpreted over time.

Then again, according the fallout wiki, the entire reason the NCR-Brotherhood war started was because the Brotherhood was attacking people for their technology. It's based on Van Buren, so I suppose it can be considered non-canon. But then you have to wonder what the war was really about.
 
Again, just my personal interpretation:
BoS always had their nose up in the clouds, seeing themselves as 'the technological saviors of mankind', but by the end of Fallout 2 it was some tribal with a teeny bit of help from BoS San Francisco outpost that destroyed the Enclave and it was the NCR that destroyed Navarro (though it could've been with some BoS help: the Nukapedia says NCR allied with BoS to fight the Enclave in the NCR-Enclave war, but all the credit for Navarro is given to NCR). The way I see it, they felt threatened by the outside world: the NCR was ever developing, annexing territories full of resources and technology (Vault City, Redding likely).

NCR-BoS war started because of the actions of one Jeremy Maxson, who, as Nukapedia states, "wanted to restore the power of the Brotherhood by wresting all advanced tech from the hands of "lesser people" by any means necessary". My personal take is that he was the early version of Veronica Santagelo: in context of NCR gaining strength and the appearance that the world either didn't want the Brotherhood's "help" in handling technology, or would resist said "help" - likely violently - he went through the same troubled-about-BoS's-identity- and-place-in-the-world crisis Veronica did in NV, except he was a Maxson so he found his own solution; as the Courier could've chosen to say to Veronica "laser rifles and power armor are still a force to be reckoned with" (or something along those lines).

Well, that's just my opinion. Then again, Jeremy might have been an asshat and that's that :) .
 
It's an interesting interpretation, don't get me wrong, but it seems in NV they imply that the Brotherhood has always been like that. The "Codex" and all that.

Hey, I just realized something... Veronica's voice actress played a character named Codex in The Guild. Ok, that doesn't mean anything.

Like I said though, it could be the later chapters were misinterpreting the original Codex, which would make your theory work.
 
Actually i think it one of the rare things that Fallout Tactics brought and was used in later episodes.

In Fallout 1, we have many things that were there, but without really adressed. They were already isolated, hoarding technology, sending every potential recruit to die irradiated in the Glow, and it was very easy to piss off some of them to the point of being killed. (try to test Rhombus patience)
But the BOS and the Followers were pretty much the only allies you have in Fo1 and they have an honorable backstory, deserting to refuse to follow Mariposa experiments. But the potential was already there and we already knew they were changed over times. The Roger Maxson BOS was more like an usual US military unit, with their familly. The second Maxson is known to have died on a crusade agains't the vipers, so by his time, the BOS was more likelly to intervene in exterior conflicts. By Fallout 1, they are already more isolated that in their past.

In the Fallout World timeline, the next episodes were FOBOS and FOT. I didn't play FOBOS, but i know Interplay/Bethesda don't consider it canon, so i don't take any risk in not mentionning them. But in FOT, i know that their depiction of BOS i way more darker than in Fo1. Barnaky is pretty much a racist that would gladly kill all ghouls/super-mutants, even the most pacifist. He also blame you for making the right call in many mission, and he is one of the main elders of the BOS. Then, depending of you ingame choices, it could become even worse, with the midwest BOS becoming a tyranny that plague the wasteland.

Then we have Fallout 2, in which the BOS is barelly there. You can only meet three BOS members. The first two don't talk much. The third one use the chosen one to steal the Enclace Technology (vertibirds plans) before allowing him to defeat them on his own, providing no backup from BOS, unlike Fo1.

Sure, they were often the main good guys, but they were far from being the holy saint saviors that Lyon's chapter became.

The only issues i have is about research. Their lack of research and interest in other fields than weaponry may have been devellopped in the late years. In Fo1, Fo2 & FoT, they were very interested in them. They even acquired knowledges that they forgot in Fo3/FoNV...

And i won't even mention their ranks that seems to change in every episodes.
(normally, knight aren't supposed to fight)
 
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I've never played Tactics, so I guess that could be the piece of the puzzle I'm missing. It is a good point that they didn't really do much to help you in 2.

I think both of you offer good explanations for why they might have changed over time, but what bothers me is that you're told in New Vegas that they're dying out because they refuse to change, that they're clinging to their "codex" in a world where it's no longer relevant. And, while it is kind of realistic for tradition-bound organizations to hold to a white-washed, idealized their history, you'd think at least one person in the chapter would have studied their history enough to point out that they haven't always been the way they are.
 
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Okay, I suppose many would disagree with me, but I think Tactics shows how the BoS would turn out if they "went outside" for the first time in many years. And even then, it's not the whole BoS but a group of BoS people with a particular set of strong ideals that they all have in common and that the rest of the BoS disagrees with, so I never really thought that Tactics could tell a lot about the nature of BoS. I'll have to think about that one now :) .

The Brotherhood has changed a bit over time, and I don't think anyone within the BoS would actually start preaching that they had changed and it's a bad thing: generations change, new generations are born and grow with a different perspective on things, reacting to things differently. They need to change to some degree or else they would've died out or, more likely, dispersed by NV, and that's alright: it's just that they haven't changed enough.

The way I see it, it's no big deal for the people in BoS that things are a little different than how they were at the time of their grandparents. The BoS are all about their precious Codex and as long as the current generation thinks they are following it to the letter, it's fine with them.
 
Yes, it makes sense that they would change over time, but that's not the impression the game gives. You would think that there would be at least one reactionary, especially given the Brotherhood's recent decline. It seems strange that no one would say "Things were so much better before, we should go back to those ways", especially given how badly things have gone for them since those days ended.

Instead, the courier can comment, and Veronica agrees, that the Brotherhood is failing because it won't change, not because it's changed too much.
 
The problems with a new generation on BOS is that most don't change their view because of the Codex, only people that go scouting or researched the old ages find that something is wrong, but it's only one or two people and that can't start a change. Most of them are rockhead when comes to change( remember the members that attack veronica for doubting the codex and trying to convince the elder? ) The BOS need a new generation with no influence to the olders ones to evolve before they died.
 
Yeah, it works as an explanation, but it would be nice if it was mentioned in-game. I guess it would have hurt Veronica's unique-ness if there was a reactionary "lets-go-back-to-the-old-ways" voice to complement her own "lets-find-a-new-way" attitude.
 
I wonder if the NCR-BOS was caused simply because the BOS decided to take technology from them, or because the BOS was scared of the NCR doing bad things with some of the technology they salvaged, possibly the tech from Navarro?

The question is: What ways are left for the Brotherhood?

They could've become part of the NCR, but Rhombus choose not to, and apparently it was wise. Considering some of the stunts the NCR has been doing lately, I would be kinda scared of NCR having all that BOS tech. What happened to the Divide clearly shows that the NCR has problems with some pre-war technology, and one day they might end unleashing something devastating and killing a lot of people.

The Midwestern faction shared technology and protection, but asked for resources and recruits in exchange. They were mostly ok, but the war clearly wore their morals down, what with concentration camps, Inquisitors, the disproportial as hell extermination of Macomb (I thought of that kind librarian at the end of the map, and how he would be mowed down like all the raiders), their general mutant hate, etc. They were essentially becoming a bunch of feudal fascists, which seem to be a somewhat logical development. Even with Barnarky out of the picture, they're not exactly nice people. Still way better than the chaotic warzone the war-torn Midwest was.It se

Veronica wanted to turn the Brotherhood into the Followers, but with guns, lots of guns, possibly with a side of tech police. The problem is that I fail to see how this differs from a nation-state, except that perhaps no sane raider or bandit would pick on the Brotherhood's charity missions.

Elijah wanted to clean the core region, then turn the Brotherhood into a ultra-fascistic techno-dictatorship where there is absolute control of everything, everyone. The vending machines supply all that is needed, the holograms watch over everyone, what they can't wipe with the cloud they send the paladins to destroy. All opposition is smashed, all dissent is curbed. People are little more than disposable fleshbots. He was essentially a technocrat-totalitarian that would've created a post-scarcity ultra-dictatorship, if he didn't die of old age first. He was like the evil Veronica is that he wanted reform but not necessarily the good kind of reform. Doubt he could've succeed, old man was older than Caesar and I'm pretty sure Brotherhood wouldn't accept such radical choice willingly. In fact, he became EXACTLY what the BOS was against (misuse of dangerous technology) and once it was clear he was the source of the cloud, he would've been executed for wiping out millions.

The D.C Brotherhood is well-meaning, but their well-meaning appears to be rather vague and they seem to be somewhat incompetent. Look at the casualties the NCR takes to conquer HELIOS One, now tell me why the BOS is having problems fighting against some dumb Super Mutants. Even something like a Behemoth is easily killed with proper tactics and weaponry. Mind you, this is just a horde of dumb orcs, not the Master's finest. There's simply no reason for them to want to 'help' people, then go into the total defensive and let the super mutant menace come to them instead of searching them out and destroying them at the source. They fight the Enclave because... why? Autumn only wanted to activate Project Purifier and bring back pre-war America, starting in D.C. They came looking for the super-weapon, which was Liberty Prime, which they use to destroy the Enclave, then gets destroyed. So what, then? All they got is a destroyed robots, lots of casualties from fighting the Enclave, water and some new tech. Do they make a nation-state, or something? We don't know, because the bloody game didn't have a ending!
 
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The new leader of BOS wanted to take NCR tech because of ''misusing it''. They tried to caught a big fish that was waay over their capacities.

It's common knowledge here on NMA that the DC BOS got a kick in the head and still haven't recovered from it, at least the Outcasts are still with BOS idea on their side.

I don't think that the BOS would have a choice with Elijah, I mean... he has the cloud, the holograms.... what would happen if a certain courier didn't show up?
 
I think that the explanation is more of an out-of-game one than lore one. Fallout one was a standalone game when it was made with no cannon or necessary character inclusions or backstory. BoS were the technologicaly advanced faction the player could interact with and are fairly immersion breaking compared to the rest of the game. They're essentially kinghts and wizards who show up all of a sudden in an othewise rather immersive and convincing post-apoc game. The game allready had rather plausible setting specific bad guys (the supermutants, ghouls, genetic experiments). It needed a way to give the player science fiction tech while generally keeping said tech from being all over the place and wrecking the setting and immersion. So they had it all locked away in a bunker in the middle of the desert on an ideological basis. But when you look at it, without the supermutants, an organization which hoards tech the way BoS did in Fallout 1 in that setting would de-facto be the bad guys - the rest of the world is struggling and degrading themsleves in a horrible wasteland while they're living their space age in a comfortable bunker somewhere.

They're essentially Vault City, but less developed as realistic society because their role in the game was one of gimmicky assistants / means of acessing tech for the player rather than a plausible society. If Vault City from Fallout 2 had a military bunker/research facility and power armors, and wore purple robes instead of blue jumpsuits it'd be the BoS bunker.

So when Fallout 2 rolled around, the devs must've had the problem that the villan they were looking for, a tech hoarding organization in a setting where acess to technology makes the difference between life and death, power and slavery, BoS were the only thing they had that fit that description. If Enclave wasn't introduced, and if finding the Geck was actually played out properly from start to finish and the game had a reasonable endgame, BoS were the only "supervillans" that made any sense. Heck, in-universe, it would've made MORE sense if the Enclave was the one fighting the super mutants in fallout 1 than the BoS.

But they couldn't use BoS as villans because all the Fallout 1 players who got their iconic power armor (and all the other technology) from them were unlikely to be convinced that those guys were evil. They were too much of a deus ex machina in Fallout 1. So the devs came up with the Enclave as the evil-er homicidal BoS, simply put all the tech in San Francisco (aka Tech Town) and only put BoS there as a nod to te fan base but without any actual functionality (you get one quest that you could've got from 2 other factions in SF, a computer which lets you cash in the stat upgrade chips and a few lockers worth of free end game gear which is mostly obsolete by the time you get it since you can loot better gear allready).

And it's even more frustrating and immersion breaking than any other potential solution - BoS as bad guys would've made some sense and let the bad guys have established bases on the mainland so you can interact with them and build up both an idea of what they are and a proper hatred instead of facing them after a million hours of play, no BoS at all (have the only BoS quest be given to you by either/both factions in San Fran with one giving the gear and the other stat upgrades) would simply mean no completely useless bunkers and guys in armor standing around the den and NCR, or BoS again being knights and wizards actively fighting the Enclave (since you could do quests for them before the final town and have a buildup towards the end game to go along with the sandbox).

What Fallout 3 did was actually make a regression - they felt like BoS were too iconic not to include in a revival of the franchise, but by the time it came around so were the Evil-BoS enclave so the game became quite a mess. Enclave were invented as villans out of strange necessities in the first place, and the BoS were setting-immersion-breaking very-strange-choice-of-allies and only barely plausible in very special circumstances. Among all the complaints about Fallout 3 missing the point, the idea of playing the enclave-BoS conflict straight as a good-vs-evil is one of the bigger ones.

But the whole problem started all the way back in Fallout 1 with tech being introduced via the knights and wizards in an underground sf-base in the first place. That game could've simply had you put togather a suit of power armor in a number of different ways which didn't steer the game from post-apoc to high fantasy. And if you think Fallout wouldn't be fallout without the BoS, just think about Fallout 2 - there's no BoS there. Heck, there's barely any Enclave. If a tanker part wasn't in their only base except the Oil Rig, you could reach the Oil Rig without having almost any clue they exist at all.

Heck, Fallout 2 would've made a TON more sense if the reason you couldn't find the Geck anywhere was that these guys in power armor came around and took it earlier along with any other useful tech (which would explain why tech isn't everywhere like in some places). There'd also be plenty of good reasons for them to abduct/kill people from the vaults as to prevent them from spreading the tech around / mixing with the mutants. They're more plausible villans than allies, and Fallout 2 would've been much more coherent, deep and in tune with the setting of the original Fallout :)
 
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I never thought that BOS in Fallout 1 made no sense. It's nice to bring the things through that angle. Insteresting also considering that BOS were made as a counter-part of the Guardians, an hostile faction in Wasteland 1.

I would also add that it seems that the increased role on the BOS in the Fallout franchise seems not much related to Black Isles, the Original develloppers.

During Fallout 1, The Unity and the Brotherhood of Steel were like the two most important faction.
It is particularly true with the Unity, while the BOS are mainly the strongest faction that provide help agains't them. (one shouldn't forget the role of the Followers of The Apocalypse and the children of the Cathedral, both involved in the main plot)

By the time we got to Fallout 2, still by the original develloppers, the BOS and the Unity are barelly there.
You meet three guys from BOS wearing only metal Armors. Personnally, i played Fo2 before Fo1, and didn't suspected they were importants in other episodes, by judging these three guys only.
The Only unity members are in random encounters. Broken Hills super-mutant are no longer part of any unity army, while Mariposa super-mutants has no connections with the Master.

So, by the time the Chosen One start his quest, those two factions are minors at best, quite none existant at worse.
If Black Isles remained the only develloppers, we could assume that those faction would have totally disapeared before Fallout 3.
(with maybe some ex-member met from times to times)

Then we have interplay...
I don't know if when Fallout Tactics and Fallout Brotherhood of Steel were released, the CEO was still Fargo or already Caen, but the fact is that those games were initiated by the publisher and not made by the original devellopper.
Those two games aren't RPG, are more combat oriented and target a different audience.

Both games intend to make your characters be part of an ongoing war, based on Fallout setting.
As the war already started, it allowed the player to be lauchned in the action at the beginning.
So they choose to pick already existing factions, for the most part.

They choose the BOS as the main good guys, as your own army, simply because it allowed you to have access to all gear available, from the worse to the better, thanks to you quartermaster.
The major ennemy was the Unity, as they are more recognizables, popular and impressive. Plus, if they had chosen the Enclave, your ennemy would have looked too close than your allies.
But those two games hadn't high res graphics, and you could choose to drop the turn-based, and get a fast-paced gameplay. In fast paced gameplay, you better recognize quickly your ennemies, as they're creatures/machines.

So we got two games that provide a larger role to the BOS-Unity war, than they ever had in Fo1.

But, even if they choose to turn Fallout world into a battlefield, they used a way that remained consistent with Black Isles already done world. (and even chose those devellopers to do the third episode, the Van Buren one)

In the Timeline, Fallout Tactics and Fallout Brotherhood of Steel are supposed to take place BEFORE Fallout 2.

So, even if during those two games, the BOS and the Unity are two of the largest army of the Wasteland, it still doesn't prevent their downfall by the time Fallout 2 happens.

During that timeframe, the cohesive army that managed to survive the loss of the Master, the Cathedral, the Lieutenant, the Vats, Mariposa, was still able to fight back and lead research under the leadership of Gammorin/Latham/Attis, before being crushed for good by the BOS.
The BOS itself spent many ressources on these wars agains't the Unity, the Calculator and the raiders, and splitted when they lost communications with Midwest chapter. They were pretty weakened, by all these wars.

So, even if they are overpowered in FoT/FoBOS, the unity & BOS could still be the shadows of themselves by Fo2, and probably long time dead by Fo3 (Van Buren)

Then, Bethesda bought the licence and wrote their own Fo3, only by reading the summary of the previous episodes.
They seen that Unity and BOS were major factions in three games out of the four availables, so they didn't hesitate to include BOS and super-mutants in Fo3.
As Fo3 is action oriented, they also given the protagonist access to their gear.
As it is even more action oriented, they provided various kind of power-armor, allowing the Enclave to come back, as they have even better stuff than BOS and created the Outcast for those who want a red power-armor.

Except that they don't even care to make it happen before Fo2, even if it would be more logical than 200 years after the war, considering that everything looks like the bombs fell yesterday.

Now, we have New Vegas as the last episode from the series and from the original develloppers, Black Isles/Obsidians.

As we could notice, The Brotherhood of Steel, the Unity and even the Enclave are still the shadow of their former selves, as it was probably intented if they had remained the sole develloppers of the series.
So, they leave room for other factions to take the torch.
(i would even say that they could have even removed them if left the choice)

We could assume that if Obsidians make a new Fallout, House would be dead, and the NCR/Legion would have lost most of their power.

On the other hand, if some publisher/devellopper still want to make some spin-off like FoBOS or FOT, they could still use the BOS, the Legion , the NCR or Navarro personnal, provided these events would happen BEFORE Fallout:New Vegas.
 
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naossano said:
They choose the BOS as the main good guys, as your own army, simply because it allowed you to have access to all gear available, from the worse to the better, thanks to you quartermaster.
The major ennemy was the Unity, as they are more recognizables, popular and impressive. Plus, if they had chosen the Enclave, your ennemy would have looked too close than your allies.
Click to expand...

The first sentence describes what happens in Fallout 1 too, and also why the BoS were immersion breaking even there AND why the game can be speedrun so easily. It changes gears from a really good post-apoc/interesting SF personal quest into essentialy high fantasy because you find that all the while there was a war between knights and monsters going on and that there's high tech to be had in the wasteland and so on and so forth. BoS have exactly the same function in Fallout 1 and the two inbetween action games, they dump tech on you, and provide a side to be on in an epic conflict. Except the Interplay titles are that from start to finish, and Fallout 1 does it to provide an endgame after you've found the chip and thus concluded the original game. Fallout 1 was fairly remarkable in the fact that is one of the few RPG's which were made outside of the "epic conflict saves the day" mould, and I'm not all that sure why the later part of the game didn't consist of you getting a suit of power armor built and scavenging high-tech stuff without having a faction of knights and wizards be there all along and not do anything in game. This way you destroying mariposa and the cathedral single handedly makes little sense in universe and also genre wise. One of the original moans with Fallout 1 players I knew was "Why don't the BoS actually enter the base with me?" but I was to little to understand that it's because they were only spliced from another genre entirely to hand out the armor, and not to make any sense (as opposed to the reast of that game which is fairly solid in it's self contained logic).

The second sentence is what's in fact wrong with the Fallout 2 game in terms of story. The enclave were just BoS with the added clause of considering everyone a mutant. (And, well, it's a bigger budget sequel of a more compact odd hit, it needed a new "best armor".) But the game itself actually shows no signs of taking the "epic conflict" endgame route of the first one untill it actually just happens in a matter of of one quest from one guy in the final town, as a result of which both the iconic power armor and the new improved power armor get dumped on you. I actually suspect (and I think I remember an old inteview) executive meddling to have influenced the development of that game. One of the devs, I think, even said "At one point we looked at it and went: Oh, shit, who's the bad guy? We don't have an end game!".

And they didn't because they put togather a series of rather disconected cities and actually moved away from Tolkinesqe "factions" towards more plausable societies which operated on a tech level far more apropriate to a slightly-post-post-apoc setting. New Vegas seems to have managed to make these two tendencies work togather after all, and it's probably the game they wanted Fo2 to be (or that Fallout 2 would've made a lot more sense as, since it's pretty much Fallout 2 "done right" with loads of recycled, omitted and expanded material - but in an engine I throughly despize. It beats Fo2 for story though, because, well, it sort of IS Fallout 2 where you start in a less implausible New Reno. In New Vegas - a wizard did it, but there it makes sense. In Fallout 2 a town based on luxury goods and practices - drugs, gambling, prostitution and boxing - exists in the wasteland... just 'cause). In Fallout 2 you only get supermutants, power armors and end game gear in general at the very end of the game, and they're even more disconected from everything, becuse they really didn't have to be there at all.

Or if they were ment to be there, they could've easily been there from the start, but the BoS would have to be villans then. The only way for Fallout 2 to make any sense while keeping the end game and the Enclave as your final boss would be the following: The south is off limits because NCR and BoS are at war. In the East of the Fo2 map towards the north it's calm since NCR can't expand because it's consolidating in the South (and their capital is there to be far away from the conflict). In the west there are mutants roaming around the ruins of Mariposa and the EPA while the Enclave is keeping the Shi and the Hubologists there as a way to stop anything from the south from breaking north. Their Navarro base is there, and further north is peaceful enough that semi-indigenous tribes have formed from refugees trying to escape the conflict (like the vault dweller). The enclave is mysterious, but presents its self as a peacekeeper through their front the Hubologists which have a small presence everywhere important in the east). The also support and encourage the slavery and the drug trade enabling New Reno to exist at all, while they search for and plunder the vaults because they plan to re-relase the virus anyway once they have enough pure genetic stock to repopulate. Noone knows this, as far as anyone on the mainland but some hubologist and the shi knows, they're whats keeping the crazy mutants and the BoS out of the North West. They can't reach Vault City, Gecko or Broken Hills because they're too far west and technicaly in the NCR sphere of influence. You, a tribal, are in fact the only guy who actually has a problem with them because you can figure out that all the slavery and crap is condoned and encouraged by them, and your search for the Geck has you looking for vaults they are looking for too. But since you're of the non-mutant stock, there could be an evil ending where you side with them against the wasteland and organize your tribe to be transported to the Oil Rig while you fight off a BoS invasion, a neutral ending where you get promised the geck by the hubologists but don't get one and your tribe gets abducted so you go to the Oil Rig and have a rampage like you do now, or a good ending where you end up siding with the Shi and defeat the Enclave like you do now.

All it would take is the BoS bunker guys in Fo2 to be hubologists instead providing the missing evil quests which steer you on a den-redding-new reno-NCR-SF path, a few more raided vaults for you to not find the Geck in, some dialogues in/around NCR about the situation down south, a location to fight the BoS in (could even be Vault 13) for the evil ending. The good path is allready there, there's no proper endgame anyway, and all the set pieces for the neutral one are also there except the hubologists aren't properly introduced and there random BoS bunkers around.
 
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I didn't said you were wrong saying that the BOS was out of place in Fallout 1, just that i didn't considered it that way. Since i would do a Fo1-Fo2 new runs this year, i will try to remember that angle.

But Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 remains not war intended while Fobos/FOT/Fo3 force you to be part of the war, and if they had wanted for you to join another army than the brotherhood of steel, they would have hard time to justify that those have access to high tier tech, or have to make a new background for that new faction, or prevented you to gain access to that top tier technology. Keeping the Brotherhood was easier for these spin-off who were probably rushed anyway.

Without those two games, the Brotherhood wouldn't have that much of a role, and could have been removed or given a side role earlier in the Series.

Also, Fallout 1 is the only game (beside New Vegas) in which the Brotherhood is entirelly optionnal. You can trade off your Power Armor for a children purple robe or trade the brotherhood help for the followers help (or no help at all).

My second sentence was about Fobos/FOT. It was better to choose mutants/robot than enclave as those game are fast paced and for a wider audience. It easier to shoot creatures that people with the same armor than yours and a not so different ideology. Also, to remain consistent with a still powerfull BOS it was wiser to set it before fallout 2, a time were the unity was still powerfull while the Enclave was not even known by the BOS.
 
What I learned about the BOS on NMA today...

Now really, this is a angle that I haven't considered myself and it's pretty interesting to read. I have some thoughts to ponder on the BOS now.
 
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