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RE: Not facist at all....

>I agree with you on the
>kids becoming disturbed part, but
>as for parents reading inapropriate
>things on the net and
>taking their childrens internet priviliges
>away, I'm sure it has
>happened.

But the fact is that you'll find that kind of material all over the net *anyway*. Also that is merely an *excuse* for not allowing swearing. In reality it is only a few members, seniors, who dislike swearing and press their morals on the rest of the board.

Yeah, it's the board's right, hell, it's a dictatorship like this board; they make the rules, but the fact remains, I find it stupid.

>True, although that was not the
>base of the problem. Any
>place or group changes when
>more an more members apply.
>The village isn't the same
>and it won't ever be
>the same, but just because
>it's stopped to be fun
>for some people doesn't mean
>it's no longer fun for
>others.

That's just it, whatever floats your boat. Yeah, some may like it but as for others, like myself, I find it too restrictive, and I'll cut it for that fact.

>I think you really overestimate the
>role of the village seniors.
>These days they have hardly
>any authorithy. The ones who
>have the authority are Doombot
>(the owner of the board)
>and the boardcops. Sound familiar?
>It's exactly the structure we
>use for NMA. And yes,
>there are those rules, but
>have you actually read them?
>They're not so bad. They
>simply ask the people who
>post to:
>
>1. Be creative
>2. Be considerate to other posters.
>
>3. Be cool.

.. with underlying rules like no swearing, a bureacracy protecting "untouchable" members, and ugh, a family contruct.

>Which is exactly what we ask
>our posters. Well, we used
>to ask them anyway. Come
>to think of it, you
>used to be a lot
>more considerate to our posters
>then you have been in
>the last couple of months.

We ask posters to not flame, spam, or otherwise be annoying, with the underlying rule: no swearing in the subject line.

We also encourage backing up opinions, posting no FOOL messages, and type messages that at least sound like your own age.

I don't think many of the UV rules apply.

>Well, if YOU don't like it,
>don't visit it. But don't
>go around and slander about
>it elsewhere.

I won't go back, but that won't prevent me from voicing my opinion about it. You can argue what I say if you want, even think me stupid and narrow-minded for thinking it, and saying it, but that's what I think.

-Xotor-

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RE: Not facist at all....

>Sure, I've heard rumors about members
>who should have been banned
>but weren't, but I don't
>know enough about the facts
>to go into that. Fact
>is that the village is
>still meant to be a
>fun place. And it is
>too. I haven't noticed anything
>about flaming or any other
>kind of misconduct by any
>members in months (Except for
>Azure Stone, but you and
>Doomsie handled that rather well).
>And since I only know
>your side of the story
>I'm not going to draw
>any conclusions just yet. Which
>is why I'm getting so
>pissed about Xotor's slandering. He's
>been there once or twice
>and posted a couple of
>times and now tells everybody
>here what a sucky place
>it is when most of
>my experiences with the village
>are good. I made a
>lot of friends there and
>so did you, you have
>to admit that.

Shadowman, if I think the place sucks, that's what I think. You can counter whatever I think or say with your own opinions, but from what I experienced, the UV does not, as the cliché states, float my boat. You may find it the embodiment of pure genius, but as for me, I didn't like it, and that's all I have to say about it.

"You have the right to hold an opinion, you have the right to publish your opinion, but you better be prepared to back it up."

-Xotor-

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RE: Not facist at all....

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-00 AT 07:45AM (GMT)[p]Like I said, if you don't like it, don't go there. But don't expect me not to defend it when you're talking shit about it. At least Roshambo has some validity in critisizing the village being a member for almost two years. You on the other hand just took a quick look and drew your conclusions.

And my opinion is backed up. It's backed up by the friends I made while I was there. Cause that's what the village is about, having fun and making friends. Now, if that doesn't "float your boat" I have no problem with it, but don't expect me not to defend the place when you spout crap about it.

To end this message I'l ask you a question. In what way do the UV rules suppress the expression of thought?
 
>please do not attempt to sugget
>anything 'taboo' on this board,
>or you will be ridiculed,
>'deactivated' and more to the
>point treated like somthing I
>found on my shoe one
>day...

I understand completely. There are a few people it seems whos sole purpose in life is to sit on the board all day long and make it clear that every idea is a bad idea and basically talk shit to everyone. These are the same cowards who in real life have been bullied and abused and figure they can some how grow some balls by being such tough argumentative people on some message board. I'd like to see how smart mouthed they are without their computer screen shield.
 
>please do not attempt to sugget
>anything 'taboo' on this board,
>or you will be ridiculed,
>'deactivated' and more to the
>point treated like somthing I
>found on my shoe one
>day...

I understand completely. There are a few people it seems whos sole purpose in life is to sit on the board all day long and make it clear that every idea is a bad idea and basically talk shit to everyone. These are the same cowards who in real life have been bullied and abused and figure they can some how grow some balls by being such tough argumentative people on some message board. I'd like to see how smart mouthed they are without their computer screen shield.
 
You're right Shadowman...

>Like I said, if you don't
>like it, don't go there.
>But don't expect me not
>to defend it when you're
>talking shit about it. At
>least Roshambo has some validity
>in critisizing the village being
>a member for almost two
>years. You on the other
>hand just took a quick
>look and drew your conclusions.
>
>And my opinion is backed up.
>It's backed up by the
>friends I made while I
>was there. Cause that's what
>the village is about, having
>fun and making friends. Now,
>if that doesn't "float your
>boat" I have no problem
>with it, but don't expect
>me not to defend the
>place when you spout crap
>about it.

You know what Shadowman, you're right. There isn't a real good reason for my dislike of the UV other than personal taste; and I shouldn't talk shit about it simply for that fact. I guess it is because I prefer NMA's more open style, the fact that I, along with others can attack other people's arguments based upon our own opinions and such. The idea that I don't have to respect another's opinions, they can have opinions, but I'm not obligated to respect those opinions. Such an openness allows for us to tear down the FOOL ideas, argue over politics, chatter about the best music, rant over people who've wronged us (like APTYP has ranted over that Christmas encounter), etc.

On the UV board I don't see that. Instead, everyone is encouraged, or rather told, to be supportive, don't crush people's dreams, don't give them a "hell no," etc. It maintains a face that is so positive, sentimental, and.. well.. false. I don't like that. It's Disney-like.

But hey, some people like that.

>To end this message I'l ask
>you a question. In what
>way do the UV rules
>suppress the expression of thought?

I've only found that you can't really be negative over someone's idea or feelings. Maybe I'm just too cynical, or maybe I like conflict... I dunno, the UV doesn't suit me.

I'll try to refrain from slandering the UV outside of my own personal feelings towards it.

-Xotor-

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*Laugh*

>>please do not attempt to sugget
>>anything 'taboo' on this board,
>>or you will be ridiculed,
>>'deactivated' and more to the
>>point treated like somthing I
>>found on my shoe one
>>day...
>
>I understand completely. There are a
>few people it seems whos
>sole purpose in life is
>to sit on the board
>all day long and make
>it clear that every idea
>is a bad idea and
>basically talk shit to everyone.

Ahem, would you care to back that up? FOOL *IS* and idiotic idea. Like EVERY OTHER PERSON WHO BACKS UP FOOL, all you've used for your backup for your argument are incoherent, unthought-through, impossible ravings. WE'VE provided explainatory UNREFUTABLE PROOF that FOOL could not exist without ruining Fallout.

I also have to add, out of all the FOOL suggestions/rantings, YOURS was by far the *worst* suggestion yet. At least with the other suggestions, they knew that an Online game meant that everyone just *existed* in the Fallout gaming environment, rather than your idea that it should all surround ONE Vault dweller part and everyone else is screwed to become the background people. Are you just clinically dead above the sholders?

>These are the same cowards
>who in real life have
>been bullied and abused and
>figure they can some how
>grow some balls by being
>such tough argumentative people on
>some message board. I'd like
>to see how smart mouthed
>they are without their computer
>screen shield.

Oh real cute, now you're trying to boost yourself out of an argument YOU LOST by claiming we have no lives. IF ANYTHING our ability to tear your rant apart (which I have to admit, isn't a great feat) shows that we have brains enough to logically think our ideas and communicate them to others.

To tell you the truth, I've *NEVER* been bullied, despite having not the muscles to defend myself. For the most part I get along with practically everyone, have friends in practically all circles, and have no enemies I can think of.

But that is beside the point.

Next time put more thought into your arguments.

-Xotor-

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>I understand completely. There are a
>few people it seems whos
>sole purpose in life is
>to sit on the board
>all day long and make
>it clear that every idea
>is a bad idea and
>basically talk shit to everyone.

No. There are some GOOD ideas here. However, yours have shown an appalling lack of coherent thought behind them. You are in the First Stage of FOOLs.

1st Stage:
FOOL supporter start spewing forth "wouldn't it be cool (kewl) if..." over and over, without giving serious thought as to HOW it would be implemented, having no basic idea of game design.

2nd Stage:
Most start out this way, but some progress to this point from stage 1. FOOL supporter thinks of how the ideas might be implemented, through examples or by game design techniques.

3rd Stage:
FOOL supporter finds out that FOOL can't be made without destroying or changing the form of Fallout. Either they quit once becoming educated about online games and game design and mechanics, or they go find other prepubescant kids who want the same thing.

>These are the same cowards
>who in real life have
>been bullied and abused and
>figure they can some how
>grow some balls by being
>such tough argumentative people on
>some message board. I'd like
>to see how smart mouthed
>they are without their computer
>screen shield.

You would? Really? I seriously doubt that.
I'm not just this way online, but IRL as well. Was this way all through my time in the Navy, and even before that.

However, that is beside the point.

You come onto the board with ideas that have been shot down to hell, and you don't give any serious thought behind your pipe-dreams. I seriously doubt you are going to get any sympathy, because as Xotor said, of all the FOOL arguments, yours has been the weakest and most pathetic. You didn't even bother trying to explain how things would be done, but instead you displayed a stunning lack of knowledge of game design and online games. Minus that knowledge to back up your "cool" ideas, you folded like a piece of rice-paper. As has anybody who doesn't THINK and DEVELOP things through. And fell faster than anyone to date.

On behalf of most people on this board, stop your whining and sniveling. We are tired of it already, and if you can't put serious thought behind your ideas, then expect them to be shot full of holes.
 
RE: *Laugh*

my message on this topic had nothing to do with fallout online or even me. It was simply what I said, that some people here resort to all kinds of personal attacks and talk all kinds of crap for no reason. It is one thing to disagree with a person about their idea but to go forth and try to make them feel bad about it is another. I have looked through many messages here on the board and guess what these are just ideas people have they are not going to spend all day long thinking of how it could be programmed into the game. Any idea can be done and done well it just needs time and effort ANY IDEA. To get back to the point though, through all the messages Ive read, many people who dont like an idea go and really try to make that person regret ever being born with insults and cool little signs like PAS. Again this has nothing to do with me or fallout online, you can insult me as much as you want if you have time to waste. Good day.
 
RE: *Laugh*

>my message on this topic had
>nothing to do with fallout
>online or even me. It
>was simply what I said,
>that some people here resort
>to all kinds of personal
>attacks and talk all kinds
>of crap for no reason.
>It is one thing to
>disagree with a person about
>their idea but to go
>forth and try to make
>them feel bad about it
>is another. I have looked
>through many messages here on
>the board and guess what
>these are just ideas people
>have they are not going
>to spend all day long
>thinking of how it could
>be programmed into the game.
>Any idea can be done
>and done well it just
>needs time and effort ANY
>IDEA. To get back to
>the point though, through all
>the messages Ive read, many
>people who dont like an
>idea go and really try
>to make that person
>regret ever being born with
>insults and cool little signs
>like PAS. Again this has
>nothing to do with me
>or fallout online, you can
>insult me as much as
>you want if you have
>time to waste. Good day.
>

There's a difference between posting something that is well-thought out, concise and clearly well-reasoned, and something that is just "wouldn't it be cool if". Bonehead ideas that do not fit Fallout, like making it into a shooter hybrid, or making it online, will be replied to vehemently, as it is obvious nobody is awake behind the wheel.

Game designers (I used to be one in late 80's with text adventure games and some with minor graphics) don't care to read half-assed ideas. Even if they never came here, those who are loyal to the series and are certain experts in their own right don't care to read half-assed ideas either.

I'll let you in on a little secret: When a game designer or akin position get an email or a suggestion that begins with "wouldn't it be cool..." or something alike that, they throw it into the garbage immediately if it's not followed up by some serious thought of how it could be implemented. And 99% of "wouldn't it be cool if..." don't bother to give them that. So most have learned to ignore everything that begins or starts to sound like a bad infomercial.
 
First of all you read into this way to much. This comment had nothing to do with me or fallout online. The thing I was pointing out is that there are people who live to go onto this board and make personal attacks toward people with ideas. And they are just that ideas, people are not going to sit all day and think of ways to implement them, they are not progamers just brainstormers. By the way any idea can be done and done well it just needs time and effort put into it, ANY IDEA. Like I told Xotor it is one thing to disagree with an idea and another try and make a person wish they had never been born because they had OH MY GOD an idea. Again this is not even about me Ive searched through many suggestions and most of the time they have been shot down using personal attacks and neat little malicious remarks. Im sorry I wasted my and your time, now that I think of it, I cant possible expect you to understand any of this.
 
RE: *Laugh*

once agian didnt even respond to what I said. read my response to you before you go about implement this and that.
 
Try reading next time:

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-00 AT 10:47PM (GMT)[p]>once agian didnt even respond to
>what I said. read
>my response to you before
>you go about implement this
>and that.

It might help.

The only ideas that get a negative response are those that are completely unfeasable, aren't thought out well, and really have no part of being in Fallout. The ideas that are well-thought out get a good reply.

Is that so hard to understand?

Apparently.
 
RE: Try reading next time:

first read my response to you.
maybe you should go search through the history of messages and im sure you will find that if what you say is true, that every idea is a bad idea. In other words go look at the huge list of negative responses.
 
RE: Try reading next time:

>first read my response to you.
>
>maybe you should go search through
>the history of messages and
>im sure you will find
>that if what you say
>is true, that every idea
>is a bad idea. In
>other words go look at
>the huge list of negative
>responses.


Now you are arguing semantics.

I can see you haven't been around message boards or BBS systems for too long, correct? I've been doing this for years, so I will give you a few pointers:

1. When you post something, it is put in front of public scrutiny. Good, bad, people will express their opinions on it. Don't like the response, wah. That's life. I'd expect the same if I reposted *my* ideas, but oddly I never had any problems with people disliking them. Probably because they fit in with the topic. But there are certain boundaries and guidelines about what is the limit.

2. First and foremost, post your ideas with some thought evident behind it. Nobody likes to read the mental dribblings of someone, nobody likes to read "k3wl", nobody likes to read "gangsta". It's a fact of life. So if something is posted on a controversial topic in a half-ass manner, or is completely out to lunch, then the responses will reflect that.

3. There is no hand-holding. When someone does not show an effort to present their ideas in a logical, reasonable manner, then the responses *will* be brutal, I must say. Especially on Usenet. Posting only half-ideas and posting things in a broad manner will get a "how the hell would that be done" at the very least. After reading a board for months, the readers of a site or newsgroup do get tired of hearing the same things, or weak points on a topic, then they are going to get disgusted with the topic and quite possibly the poster themselves. Saying that you want something in a game, like "I want a BFG2k in Fallout 3." and offereng little or no support on *how* it would fit into the game balance, story, etc. *will* get a negative reply, for sure. Same with trying to hybrid a game that was meant to be a Classic RPG with a shooter. That too will get a negative reply because it doesn't fit with he theme of Fallout.

3. Whining does nothing save to aggravate the problem. It really doesn't. It might be a brutal code, but it works. Has worked, and will continue to work. Netiquette falls highly into play, and what you have seen here could be considered *nice* in comparasin to some places. We are tough, but fair. If the topic of FOOL *has* been argued to death so many times before, and has been proven to be unfeasable in a deeply technical manner. So what would the logical conclusion be when someone comes on and just starts going off on Fallout Online or some facsimile of such, not touching on how it would be done, but just saying how wonderful it would be, and how cool this and that would be. Another example, the Stock Market idea. Clearly would not fit with Fallout. Neither would most things. You can see many smartass "suggestions" by a few as a sarcastic poke at those who needed to sober up themselves and start posting reasonable things.
 
>First of all you read into
>this way to much. This
>comment had nothing to do
>with me or fallout online.
>The thing I was pointing
>out is that there are
>people who live to go
>onto this board and make
>personal attacks toward people with
>ideas.

Personal attacks are considered FLAMING. That is an attack on the person. What we, and everyone else does is DEBATING and DISCUSSING. We are countering the idea and the messages. If you feel bad as a by-product, then you're too sensitive. In other words GROW UP.

>And they are just
>that ideas, people are not
>going to sit all day
>and think of ways to
>implement them, they are not
>progamers just brainstormers.

Dr. Frog, maybe you were sheltered as a child or something, but in the REAL world, you know, the world where life isn't like Disney, the old saying "there is no such thing as a bad idea" holds no foundation. That saying was meant as a way to make children feel good about their own ideas and thoughts, to build self-esteem.

However by high-school (which I can only assume you've reached by now) you should have figured out that the elementary teachers left out something. My old English teacher put it perfectly when she stated, "there is no such thing as a bad idea, only a SUPPORTED idea."

Yes, people need to back up their ideas with cold hard LOGIC. Ideas that are not backed up are RANTS; illogical jibberish that is worthless.

What would you say if some guy came up to you and told you he was a yam? You'd tell him (though maybe not, he might hurt you) he's crazy and there is no proof he is a yam.

The elementary teacher also forgot something else: "You have the right to your own ideas, but as soon as you transmit them for public viewing, they are open to all forms of scrutiny."

If you don't want your ideas jeered, countered, crushed, criticized, exonerated, complimented, argued, etc. DON'T POST THEM. Nobody has to respect ANYONE's ideas or opinions for the sake of respect. Respect is EARNED, not given for free. Present your ideas in a logical manner and they will be respected and probably complimented.

You don't need to be a programmer to think of ways to implement ideas. Anyone can.

>By the
>way any idea can be
>done and done well it
>just needs time and effort
>put into it, ANY IDEA.

You cannot WILL an idea to work. You cannot have a turn-based combat system within an online game. Some things SIMPLY CANNOT EXIST OR HAPPEN.

You could have the idea to walk into the "world of the reflection in the mirror" but it can't happen.

That's what science is for.

>Like I told Xotor it
>is one thing to disagree
>with an idea and another
>try and make a person
>wish they had never been
>born because they had OH
>MY GOD an idea.

And it is another thing to stick with half-brained impossible ideas when proven wrong simply for the fact that you suggested it.

If you feel you wish you were never born, GET OVER IT. Mommy isn't going to hold your hand your whole life. DEAL WITH IT.

>Again
>this is not even about
>me Ive searched through
>many suggestions and most of
>the time they have been
>shot down using personal attacks
>and neat little malicious remarks.

Oh boohoo. Take a look at MatuX; we had a huge argument over what a "hacker" is. We (Rosh and I) used the same style of arguing as we are now and "won," if you consider it that, the argument. However MatuX is still around and kicking.

We don't take our arguments over to other threads. If you suggest a half-wit idea and get countered and argued down, it doesn't drain over into other threads. If you put a good idea up, you'll receive as much praise as the next man. It shows that we hold nothing personal against anyone.

But if you're going to cry over the fact that a remark made you feel bad, geez, I'm sorry, I guess I have to tone my writing to that of a 3rd-grader. That won't happen.

>Im sorry I wasted my
>and your time, now that
>I think of it, I
>cant possible expect you to
>understand any of this.

We understand perfectly. You expect the "be nice to your neighbor" elementary-school world. Real life isn't like that. If you find it too "brutal" here, visit the Unwashed Village messageboard, they're more excusing, though they probably don't like half-wit ideas either.

-Xotor-

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shit, thats no excuse. My whole life i've been ridiculed,beaten, and laughed at. that doesn't give me an excuse to come on this board and be an asshole does it???
 
>shit, thats no excuse. My
>whole life i've been ridiculed,beaten,
>and laughed at. that
>doesn't give me an excuse
>to come on this board
>and be an asshole does
>it???

Um, the person you are replying to has since (after posting a few last times), gone off into a corner and started mewling how unfair the world is.

Fact is, he got upset because people were either against his ideas or would tear them to pieces. His only excuse is that he shouldn't have to think them through, and instead be allowed to go forth with all the mental dribblings he cares to.

Nevermind the rest of us have heard said mental dribblings about 300 times already over the last 3 years.
 
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