Big BIG flaw in FO3 (imo)

[Agent 9]

My point (which is overly long winded) is that after 200 years you think people would be acting... well more like people. in a span of 200 years (many generations) you would think that things would be re-built more, instead of left to fall to ruins. Infrastructures such as garbage, water, food production, and things like you see in the 'pitt' would be far more widespread. remember the US sprung up to the super power in about 100 years (depending on how you look at it) and seeing as how most stuff was there before the war, you'd figure at least some of it'd be put back. I'm not saying that you'd (as the vault dweller) would clean in the game, but that the bigger cities and stuff would look like cities, and be presentable.

There are random piles of rubble lying around either because Bethesda was too lazy to make environments unique (so they added piles of rubble to make them look different) or they intentionally did it of other reasons. both of which are no real excuse for it. Yes I know it's a video game, but it would have been nice if they thought some things over before they built the video game (other companies do it with their games, ie: bungie with the Halo series... they have solid explanations for why, and how things are the way they appear... interplay and the older fallout games did a good job with doing so as well

In Oblivion they had a set number of dungeon sections that they made, and then put into a program that built "randomized" dungeons for them, so they'd spend their time doing things other than making dungeons. The subway systems and caves feel like they were put together in the same way as that, and its annoying.

 

[Korin]

tl;dr version:
I disagree but see where you're coming from. I think you may be nitpicking some things that could be pointed out in just about any game (especially the Fallout series, which is riddled with nonsensical and unrealistic examples).

The long ass version most people probably won't read:

My point (which is overly long winded)

Don't worry, I have the same problem

is that after 200 years you think people would be acting... well more like people. in a span of 200 years (many generations) you would think that things would be re-built more, instead of left to fall to ruins. Infrastructures such as garbage, water, food production, and things like you see in the 'pitt' would be far more widespread. remember the US sprung up to the super power in about 100 years (depending on how you look at it) and seeing as how most stuff was there before the war, you'd figure at least some of it'd be put back. I'm not saying that you'd (as the vault dweller) would clean in the game, but that the bigger cities and stuff would look like cities, and be presentable.

Maybe, maybe not. In the wasteland there is no manufacturing, no vegetation and the water is irradiated. It's not a place that's condusive to being rebuilt. There is a social infrastructure amongst various groups and certain things have been built/rebuilt. These aren't really places like the NCR in Fallout 2 however, that have a federated/co-ordinated effort to rebuild some of what you mentioned. Everything pretty much is piecemeal.

There are random piles of rubble lying around either because Bethesda was too lazy to make environments unique (so they added piles of rubble to make them look different) or they intentionally did it of other reasons. both of which are no real excuse for it.

I can't say I ever noticed rubble in such a way as to feel it intruded on the experience of the game.

Yes I know it's a video game, but it would have been nice if they thought some things over before they built the video game (other companies do it with their games, ie: bungie with the Halo series... they have solid explanations for why, and how things are the way they appear... interplay and the older fallout games did a good job with doing so as well

I'm not really sure how the Halo series is a comparison... they are two completely different genre of games.

I think people often miss what the idea of it being a video game entails. This is where logic is often applied but misses the mark entirely.

The medium is the message. If you ask why you might see rubble in an area, you would assume the people simply didn't clean it up. This isn't the logic behind the rubble placement... because you are applying it in such a way that you expect these fictional characters will operate within it. The rubble is there because a designer wanted you to view the area as derelict and falling apart. It's there to evoke an emotional response and to give you a subconscious impression of what the area you are in is like.

Another example would be Rivet City... some of the hallways are cluttered and you'll find things like paper all over the floor. It's obvious that in 200 years any normal human being probably would have picked that paper up and thrown it out. I would guess some 98% of people never even saw the paper let alone remember it. There are also some floor tilings that are ajar and misaligned amongst other things. It's because when you're in Rivet City the designer(s) wanted you to feel like you were in a rusty junk heap.

Interplay did a better job because they did not have the task of applying such things to a 3D environment (not that they aren't great at design to begin with). This is something I think people forget as well. Designing a level in 2D is much easier than designing it in first-person 3D. In 2D, people can only see something from one angle. You don't have to worry about how something looks on the horizon or how it looks depending where you stand in a room. You don't have to worry about how high a ceiling is or how many books you should put on a shelf. And perhaps most importantly, your eyes aren't 100 feet off the ground.

In essence, I know such things bother people. They never really bothered me, but I just absorb it as a part of the experience that was implied.

To circle back to why some of the cities/towns didn't have the infrastructure you were looking for, I would sum that up with the "that's not the world they wanted you to experience".

In Oblivion they had a set number of dungeon sections that they made, and then put into a program that built "randomized" dungeons for them, so they'd spend their time doing things other than making dungeons. The subway systems and caves feel like they were put together in the same way as that, and its annoying.

Try as I may, I can't find anything about them being built by some random generator... I myself did not like the metro stations much, but they were unique enough that I could find my way around without much trouble.

 

[John B.]

I had a map of everything, so I didn't get lost, I'll buy the guide even if I never intend on getting the game.

 

[Agent 9]

Yea, I guess most of my problems with Fallout 3 stem from the fact that the Fallout series was great; then Bethesda (with crappy Oblivion) came along and used parts of the fallout series to "skin" Oblivion. FO3 uses Oblivion's game engine, mod system, and much more; though Fallout 3 is far better than Oblivion...

Don't get me wrong I love them for making a Fallout sequel, Just I wish some of the game developers loved the fallout series as some fans do (I hope that would mean they would put more effort into it, and have made it a game truely worthy of the titel "Game Of The Year") Yes, I am Nit Picking those points I mentioned, but really because I am a Fallout Fan, and don't like Oblivion that much. Plus little points like that bug me all the time in movies and games (it sucks to always see what they did wrong, I have no choice in the matter )


I was wrong about the random map thing (It turns out I mis-read someone saying that if someone used the Random Map Generator for Oblivion, that it it would make better dungeons then what was there) and they are right, the first 3-4 dungeons you go in are cool, then after that it all seems the same, and poorly designed. If you play Oblivion for more than 6 hrs you get really bored (once you start clearing out rat infestations in people's house, the game loses its fun) And (for me, and I assume others) I feel that the Subways and "caves" were really poorly done, and felt just like the dungeons were ported from Oblivion (dungeons which I hate) [just my opinion]

In Fallout 3 because of the crappy Oblivion game engine, they were limited to the map sizes, the town sizes, and specific details and such. Some of that could have been overcome with simply having more data files (unique npc's, npc animations, towns, details and such) I wish they didn't limit themselves with that game engine and file size; it could have been sooo much of a better game.


I do understand a 3d environment is much harder to work in then a 2d one, but doing 3d modeling and a little texturing myself (on the side only) I only do the best I can, I don't cut corners, or not finish the models, or leave "problematic" things built into the model. Therefore I am realy critical of games and their 3d models (which they are paid to do), and which I paid to get.

 

[Faceless Stranger]

Retconning everything was the bigges IMO

 

[Nuka-X]

Yeah, I too realized you're just wandering blindly out of the Vault because your dad did too and you wanted to see him again or something like that.

The character in FO3 has no help, no information, he's stranded outside the Vault, helpless and unknowing of the current world.

 

[Little Robot]

Yeah, I too realized you're just wandering blindly out of the Vault because your dad did too and you wanted to see him again or something like that.

The character in FO3 has no help, no information, he's stranded outside the Vault, helpless and unknowing of the current world.

Good thing so many people can point him in the direction of the "middle aged guy!"

 

[José Cruz]

I wish that there was a LOT more plot driven reasons to go to places in Fallout 3, not just a bunch of explorable places with no real logical reason tobeing searched for, plot-wise speaking. AND that DC were between mid-game and end-game location, since it's so fucking dangerous. And don't let me start on the subway-labirinth bullshit...

F3 is a 100 hour game that can be finished in 10 hours. You can chose to go directly to the end of the game or be doing side quest for as long as you can.

Stats don't matter, so you don't need to level before going for the boss.

Bethesda made the game that way so to maximize the demographic impact, and hence, profits: They wanted to get gamers that wanted to play 10 hours and gamers that wanted to be 100 hours into the game.

Also, in the original Fallouts the cities could have any size, so players could stay a long time in a single "place". While F3 is really one city: the only real town the game is megaton.

 

[Nuka-X]

Yeah, I too realized you're just wandering blindly out of the Vault because your dad did too and you wanted to see him again or something like that.

The character in FO3 has no help, no information, he's stranded outside the Vault, helpless and unknowing of the current world.

Good thing so many people can point him in the direction of the "middle aged guy!"

Can't be too hard him that, can it?

 

[Faceless Stranger]

Basically, they messed up by recycling everything from Oblivion... Ex.: Damage Resistance...

BTW... does anyone know where the Daedric Armor is?

 

[Little Robot]

BTW... does anyone know where the Daedric Armor is?

You can get it from the Brotherhood of Steel once you rescue 1000 old ladies' kittens from trees for them as part of the main quest.

 

[Faceless Stranger]

BTW... does anyone know where the Daedric Armor is?

You can get it from the Brotherhood of Steel once you rescue 1000 old ladies' kittens from trees for them as part of the main quest.

I knew it, problem is, they keep exploding everytime I accidently shoot them

 

[Hassknecht]

BTW... does anyone know where the Daedric Armor is?

You can get it from the Brotherhood of Steel once you rescue 1000 old ladies' kittens from trees for them as part of the main quest.

I knew it, problem is, they keep exploding everytime I accidently shoot them

Didn't you know, in the grim future of Fallout, there is only nuclear powered kittens.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

F3 is a 100 hour game that can be finished in 10 hours. You can chose to go directly to the end of the game or be doing side quest for as long as you can.

You do know Fallout 1/2 can be finished in about 15 min right?

Just saying.

 

[Makenshi]

Didn't you know, in the grim future of Fallout, there is only nuclear powered kittens.

I see what you did there, heretic...