Big Brother is Watching- No surprises anymore

[welsh]

Ok, like who didn't see this little leak coming.

What's wrong on spying on your own people. Hell, it worked for the Russians, right?

Amazing how much this asshole manages to rollback what was cool about the US.

Republicans- you voted for this asshole!

Bush Defends Secret Spying in the U.S. By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 26 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Facing angry criticism and challenges to his authority in Congress, President Bush on Saturday unapologetically defended his administration's right to conduct secret post-Sept. 11 spying in the United States as "critical to saving American lives."

This is an old story.
The question is simple- are your liberties worth risking your lives for?

Bush said congressional leaders had been briefed on the operation more than a dozen times. That included Democrats as well as Republicans in the House and Senate, a GOP lawmaker said.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said she had been told on several occasions that Bush had authorized unspecified activities by the National Security Agency, the nation's largest spy agency. She said she had expressed strong concerns at the time, and that Bush's statement Saturday "raises serious questions as to what the activities were and whether the activities were lawful."

Often appearing angry in an eight-minute address, the president made clear he has no intention of halting his authorizations of the monitoring activities and said public disclosure of the program by the news media had endangered Americans.

WHen Bush gets criticized- his response-
Get angry, then pout.

Bush's willingness to publicly acknowledge a highly classified spying program was a stunning development for a president known to dislike disclosure of even the most mundane inner workings of his White House. Just a day earlier he had refused to talk about it.

Since October 2001, the super-secret National Security Agency has eavesdropped on the international phone calls and e-mails of people inside the United States without court-approved warrants. Bush said steps like these would help fight terrorists like those who involved in the Sept. 11 plot.

"The activities I have authorized make it more likely that killers like these 9/11 hijackers will be identified and located in time," Bush said. "And the activities conducted under this authorization have helped detect and prevent possible terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad."

Proof?

And when do you stop the abuse.

News of the program came at a particularly damaging and delicate time.

Already, the administration was under fire for allegedly operating secret prisons in Eastern Europe and shipping suspected terrorists to other countries for harsh interrogations.

Ok, let's see-
secret imprisonment
torture
Spying on your people

Yeah... democracy at work.

The NSA program's existence surfaced as Bush was fighting to save the expiring provisions of the USA Patriot Act, the domestic anti-terrorism law enacted after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Democrats and a few Republicans who say the law gives so much latitude to law enforcement officials that it threatens Americans' constitutional liberties succeeded Friday in stalling its renewal.

So Bush scrapped the version of his weekly radio address that he had already taped — on the recent elections in Iraq — and delivered a live speech from the Roosevelt Room in which he lashed out at the senators blocking the Patriot Act as irresponsible and confirmed the NSA program.

Meanwhile, Congressional Republicans want to roll back Judicial oversight of the Executive.

Bush said his authority to approve what he called a "vital tool in our war against the terrorists" came from his constitutional powers as commander in chief. He said that he has personally signed off on reauthorizations more than 30 times.

"The American people expect me to do everything in my power under our laws and Constitution to protect them and their civil liberties," Bush said. "And that is exactly what I will continue to do, so long as I'm the president of the United States."

ANd that's the problem- protect them and their civil liberties.
WHy- because those civil liberties help define a quality of life.
If you take away that quality of life by attacking civil liberties you are basically fucking you agenda in the ass.

James Bamford, author of two books on the NSA, said the program could be problematic because it bypasses a special court set up by the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to authorize eavesdropping on suspected terrorists.

Oh who really needs a special court.

"I didn't hear him specify any legal right, except his right as president, which in a democracy doesn't make much sense," Bamford said in an interview. "Today, what Bush said is he went around the law, which is a violation of the law — which is illegal."

Retired Adm. Bobby Inman, who led the NSA from 1977 to 1981, said Bush's authorization of the eavesdropping would have been justified in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks "because at that point you couldn't get a court warrant unless you could show probable cause."

"Once the Patriot Act was in place, I am puzzled what was the need to continue outside the court," Inman added. But he said, "If the fact is valid that Congress was notified, there will be no consequences."

Susan Low Bloch, a professor of constitutional law at Georgetown University Law Center, said Bush was "taking a hugely expansive interpretation of the Constitution and the president's powers under the Constitution.

That view was echoed by congressional Democrats.

"I tell you, he's President George Bush, not King George Bush. This is not the system of government we have and that we fought for," Sen. Russell Feingold, D-Wis., told The Associated Press.

Added Sen. Patrick Leahy (news, bio, voting record), D-Vt.: "The Bush administration seems to believe it is above the law."

And this is news?

Bush defended the program as narrowly designed and used "consistent with U.S. law and the Constitution." He said it is employed only to intercept the international communications of people inside the U.S. who have been determined to have "a clear link" to al-Qaida or related terrorist organizations.

Government officials have refused to provide details, including defining the standards used to establish such a link or saying how many people are being monitored.

The program is reviewed every 45 days, using fresh threat assessments, legal reviews, and information from previous activities under the program, the president said. Intelligence officials involved in the monitoring receive extensive training in civil liberties, he said.

Yes, we can tell by just the folks he appoints to the Supreme Court.

Call it the incrediablity gap catching up.

Bush said leaders in Congress have been briefed more than a dozen times. Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., told House Republicans that those informed were the top Republican and Democratic leaders of the House and Senate and of each chamber's intelligence committees. "They've been through the whole thing," Hoekstra said.

The president had harsh words for those who revealed the program to the media, saying they acted improperly and illegally. The surveillance was first disclosed in Friday's New York Times.

"As a result, our enemies have learned information they should not have," Bush said. "The unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk."

The same thing they said about the Pentagon Papers, not so many years ago.

(oops, is that the Vietnam analogy coming back, again?)

Bush has more to worry about on Capitol Hill than his difficulties with the Patriot Act. Lawmakers have begun challenging Bush on his Iraq policy, reflecting polling that shows half of the country is not behind him on the war.

On Sunday, the president was continuing his effort to reverse that by giving his fifth major speech in less than three weeks on Iraq.

One bright spot for the White House was a new poll showing that a strong majority of Americans oppose, as does Bush and most lawmakers, an immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. The AP-Ipsos poll found 57 percent of those surveyed said the U.S. military should stay until Iraq is stabilized.

What we really need is a presidential recall or a no confidence vote.

 

[TheWesDude]

i say impeach the bastard.

 

[Ashmo]

*cough*NSDAP*cough*

 

[Jebus]

Stop trying to subtly spread your nazi propaganda, Ashmo.

 

[Wooz]

From what I read at AFP, Congress blocked the renewal of the Patriot Act.

Isn't Congress dominated by the Republican party? Even his fellow party members are taking a clear distance from dubyah, if not downright opposing him, after the torture camps/ secret prisons affair and publicly admitting the Iraq invasion was based on false intelligence.

Oopsie?

The best part of the article is his quote defendinga police state because

"The terrorists want to attack America worse than 9/11!"

Priceless. Scaremongering at work.

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.

 

[Ashmo]

Stop trying to subtly spread your nazi propaganda, Ashmo.

*cough*Vote Bush*cough*

 

[Dapper Dan Man]

From what I read at AFP, Congress blocked the renewal of the Patriot Act.

Isn't Congress dominated by the Republican party? Even his fellow party members are taking a clear distance from dubyah, if not downright opposing him, after the torture camps/ secret prisons affair and publicly admitting the Iraq invasion was based on false intelligence.

Oopsie?

The best part of the article is his quote defendinga police state because

"The terrorists want to attack America worse than 9/11!"

Priceless. Scaremongering at work.

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.

While they oppose the Patriot Act, the defeat of it is a political ploy in itself. Many Democrats want to put safeguards into it and ameliorate the worst aspects of the law. By defeating it whole sale, the issue can be brought back up later while the Democrats arestill in a weak position as 'evidence' they refuse to support the 'War on Terror'.

 

[calculon000]

Well, I think it's safe to say that Bush is up there on the list of the worst US presidents ever.

 

[Roshambo]

Well, I think it's safe to say that Bush is up there on the list of the worst US presidents ever.

My vote is for THE worst, as he sells out the American people and then lies to them unashamedly. At least Nixon did something for the country as a whole besides scaremonger and sell out the country for the executive war profiteers.

"The American people expect me to do everything in my power under our laws and Constitution to protect them and their civil liberties, including taking away their freedoms and civil liberties, and by sending them to their deaths for a war designed to take attention away from how we couldn't find Osama in Afghanistan and many other spectacular fuck-ups in my administration," Bush said. "And that is exactly what I will continue to do, so long as I'm the president of the United States and my administration keeps fucking up!"</The REAL Quote>

 

[Brother None]

My vote is for THE worst, as he sells out the American people and then lies to them unashamedly. At least Nixon did something for the country as a whole besides scaremonger and sell out the country for the executive war profiteers.

Nixon was a fine president. He was a slight mental case and that's what killed him, paranoia. Bush combines a lot more bad things in him than Nixon ever did.

Anyway, in response allow me to quote something that was quoted to me by many Americans (probably including CCR) whenever I speak of the European ideals listing several values above freedom:
People willing to give up freedom for a little safety, deserve neither freedom nor safety.

Funny thing is Europeans are willing to give up economic freedoms for social gains, whereas Americans are now sacrificing freedoms to the big bad boogyman.

This is a good point to note that Bush seems to be holding more and more speeches in front of military audiences. More applause that way, I guess.

 

[Roshambo]

Nixon was a fine president. He was a slight mental case and that's what killed him, paranoia.

Well, that, Operation Breakfast and many other stunts in/around/involving Nam and his administration.

Bush combines a lot more bad things in him than Nixon ever did.

Indeed, I can't think of anything Bush has done, overall, that is good for this country. Unless you count Medicare improvements, and those were initiated by other people and adopted weakly by his administration to try and save face.

Anyway, in response allow me to quote something that was quoted to me by many Americans (probably including CCR) whenever I speak of the European ideals listing several values above freedom:
People willing to give up freedom for a little safety, deserve neither freedom nor safety.

Funny thing is Europeans are willing to give up economic freedoms for social gains, whereas Americans are now sacrificing freedoms to the big bad boogyman.

And now the adminstration is trying to say that the person on the street is the greatest and first line of defense, as the "If you see something, say something" garbage paranoia ads say in NY city infer, then the US is truly fucked. The administration can't even manage the borders, and common, untrained people are supposed to keep an eye on each other. That just leads to jumpy bullshit, akin to "finding commies" around WWII.

So then the paranoia gets to new levels, and you end up with rioting involving different ethnic groups - which the govt uses as an excuse to erode even more freedoms to "ensure democracy". This has happened numerous times already with King George.

This is a good point to note that Bush seems to be holding more and more speeches in front of military audiences. More applause that way, I guess.

What better way to make it seem like people support you, if you give speeches to people who are under orders to kiss your ass?


EDIT: And now the Offal Office just claimed in a presidential address that the US is successful and winning the war in Iraq. Again. You know, I am quite surprised people beside him are stupid enough to believe his own pathetic spin-doctoring when the obvious facts are hardly on his side.

 

[John Uskglass]

My vote is for THE worst,

I don't know how far your list of bad presidents goes back. Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and Warren G. Harding where all worse, and history has yet to judge Bush....at all. Opinions formulated on current leaders tend to be diffirent from historical opinions.

At this point I'd probably call Bush the Republican LBJ: not a bad guy, great politiican, but not very smart and not very good with policy.

Nixon was a fine president. He was a slight mental case and that's what killed him, paranoia. Bush combines a lot more bad things in him than Nixon ever did.

No way. Price controls? Meeting with the most violent dictator of all time? Watergate? And I still think his Vietnam polcy was offbase at both the beggining and end.

People willing to give up freedom for a little safety, deserve neither freedom nor safety.

I like Benjamin Franklin a lot, but that was in the time before thermonuclear devices, 1848 and a century of rightious fighting against revolutions and terrorism.

whereas Americans are now sacrificing freedoms to the big bad boogyman.

We are climbing out of that hole, finally, you guys are climbing in, according to Der Spiegel.

Yes, it might be GERMANY's PROBLEM, but Germany has been the only part of Western (Continental) Europe that really matters for the last 133 years.

Funny thing is Europeans are willing to give up economic freedoms for social gains,

Like putting the equivilent to the whole GDP of Africa into Agricultural Subsidies to make sure Africans starve while French farmers can afford to keep their wine cellers full with Chateau Lafite?

Sorry, as long as any part of your 'Social Gains' agenda includes agricultural subsidies, you can't claim the upper grounds ethically.

Priceless. Scaremongering at work.

Would you say it is untrue Wooz?

 

[Brother None]

I like Benjamin Franklin a lot, but that was in the time before thermonuclear devices, 1848 and a century of rightious fighting against revolutions and terrorism.

Uh...huh.

We are climbing out of that hole, finally, you guys are climbing in, according to Der Spiegel.

Yes, it might be GERMANY's PROBLEM, but Germany has been the only part of Western (Continental) Europe that really matters for the last 133 years.

France is the leader of the largest economic block in existence. I'm pretty sure they matter.

Also, I don't see what you're basing your remarks on. That article simply states Germans are xenophobic and worried about the future. Xenophobia aside, if you're not worried about the future right now you're a bit stupid, if you don't mind me saying.

That's a far shot from pretending a plane crashes into a building justifies invading two countries, killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians, curtailing civil rights, ignoring international law, all in the name of FEAR. This is all the US preaches in the modern age. We must fear, fear justifies everything. I don't see Germany doing the same.

I have seen no signs of the US climbing out of the fear-mongering hole. If you're not shouting hell and chaos down on terrorism, you've alway got your open southern border to cry about. Or racial riots in New Orleans? Shit, you people feed on fear.

Like putting the equivilent to the whole GDP of Africa into Agricultural Subsidies to make sure Africans starve while French farmers can afford to keep their wine cellers full with Chateau Lafite?

Sorry, as long as any part of your 'Social Gains' agenda includes agricultural subsidies, you can't claim the upper grounds ethically.

1. Talk about jumping subjects. Whoa nelly.
2. I have spoken out against the farming subsidies on numerous occasions already, why are you bringing this up with me?
3. Funniest of all, the US is amongst the top of the heaviest subsidized agricultural economies in the world.

 

[Ashmo]

Hey, you can't blame Germany for its people being stupid enough to elect the shadow government of the past six years into office.

The American people isn't exactly smarter either.

 

[TheWesDude]

That's a far shot from pretending a plane crashes into a building justifies invading two countries, killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians, curtailing civil rights, ignoring international law, all in the name of FEAR. This is all the US preaches in the modern age. We must fear, fear justifies everything. I don't see Germany doing the same.

I have seen no signs of the US climbing out of the fear-mongering hole. If you're not shouting hell and chaos down on terrorism, you've alway got your open southern border to cry about. Or racial riots in New Orleans? Shit, you people feed on fear.

the president and the media are the only ones really preaching fear. if you bothered to watch US news you would see specials on like "mall security" where reporters ask people what they think of the danger of a terrorist attack at the mall and people make remarks of the vein of "i hadnt even thought of it till you said something; im not worried about it" and such. bush fear-mongers and the media loves it so recipricates while the people pretty much ignore it.

 

[Ashmo]

The people ignore it?

Yeah, because constant exposure to fear propaganda doesn't affect anyone. Rrright.

 

[Montez]

bush fear-mongers and the media loves it so recipricates while the people pretty much ignore it.

The people who are intelligent or educated enough know better, but I'd say that that's a small minority in this country. Most people buy into it completely. I mean seriously, this is a country where a huge amount of people still believe in creationism because they are in complete ignorance of what a scientific theory is and assume that it's the same thing as a theory about who killed the butler in a mystery novel. "Evolution is just a guess, it don't mean squat! Those degenerate athiests are just the devil's tools trying to tempt us into not believing in the one true book!"

I'm not saying that our country is an exception, but we are filled to the brim with ignorant lackeys who are incapable of thinking for themselves and will buy into anything that the media or someone in power tells them.

 

[Jebus]

At this point I'd probably call Bush the Republican LBJ: not a bad guy, great politiican, but not very smart and not very good with policy.

Y'know, in my humble opinion people give him way too less credit on that account. The way I see it, the guy is an absolute genius.
I can think of very, very few people who could pull the shit he pulled and still get re-elected. No matter what methods he used, that must've required cartloads of empathy and strategy.

 

[John Uskglass]

Y'know, in my humble opinion people give him way too less credit on that account. The way I see it, the guy is an absolute genius.
I can think of very, very few people who could pull the shit he pulled and still get re-elected. No matter what methods he used, that must've required cartloads of empathy and strategy.

Your humble opinion is not grounded in American political history. It takes a shitload for an encumbant who has seen three years of war and terror and, frankly, handeled the second very, very well. The Democrats should not have even been close.

Uh...huh.

The founders lived in a diffirent world. Hell, Abraham Lincoln did a hell of a lot worse then Bush is doing.

France is the leader of the largest economic block in existence. I'm pretty sure they matter.

France under the modern UMP or the SP could not lead a Turk to Raki. Need I remind you of the little constitution that failed this year?

Also, I don't see what you're basing your remarks on. That article simply states Germans are xenophobic and worried about the future. Xenophobia aside, if you're not worried about the future right now you're a bit stupid, if you don't mind me saying.

Germans worry to much about their own economy. Main economic problem in Germany is consumer confidence: hell, even I noticed how down everyone was when I was there.

That's a far shot from pretending a plane crashes into a building justifies invading two countries, killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians, curtailing civil rights, ignoring international law, all in the name of FEAR.

Get the fuck out of your ivory tower Kharn. This is down right insulting. The worst terror attack of all times happens to the most powerful nation in the world and there is going to be a war.

I mean, fuck, just look at the history:

We went through a lot of fear, a lot of hatred, a lot of anger, and we ended up in two wars against Totalitarian regimes that deserved to be destroyed.

I love this country, and I recognize that our fear after 9/11 was used to rationalize a lot of authoritarian things, but we ARE healing from it: just look at the outrage this stuff is causing.

Though, I think we could learn from the Russians and build a super cool Orthodox Chruch on World Trade Center square.

I don't see Germany doing the same.

Let's wait another twenty years, eh?

I have seen no signs of the US climbing out of the fear-mongering hole. If you're not shouting hell and chaos down on terrorism, you've alway got your open southern border to cry about. Or racial riots in New Orleans? Shit, you people feed on fear.

'You people'? The modern world does. You think people like Le Pen and Pim Fortyn come out of thin air? Parties like Vlaams Belang, the NDP and the FPA just grow out of the ground?

1. Talk about jumping subjects. Whoa nelly.

Just don't try and take moral positions on us overeacting to 9/11. Terrorism scares people, let alone on the scale seen then.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Get the fuck out of your ivory tower Kharn. This is down right insulting. The worst terror attack of all times happens to the most powerful nation in the world and there is going to be a war.

Shyeah, it worked so well for the governments you showed on your pictures too.

You could have... you know... acted like a mature nation and not like a little kid who got tripped in gym class and attack those responsible and not commit war crimes in a country that had nothing to do with the attack so some company can get rich... Just sayin'