All right. See how the dog and the volcano get the same news rating? That ain't because dogs are so damn cool, I can tell you!
Big shit in Thailand
- Thread starter victor
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All right. See how the dog and the volcano get the same news rating? That ain't because dogs are so damn cool, I can tell you!
Per said:
Yes. If he's got a red aura, he deserves it.
:: enters esotherics fanatic mode ::
No, I actually would point and lough at that one.
Per said:
All right. See how the dog and the volcano get the same news rating? That ain't because dogs are so damn cool, I can tell you!
:: loughs his ass off ::
I love you, Per.
calculon000
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I think that ANY news network in any country would report on their own country more than a foreign one. Also, I think that another reason foreign disasters are reported less is because if it had been in the USA, there would have been 1,000 times as much damage because the USA has 1,000 times the infrastructure.
1,000 times less people though, so less dead.
Member of Khans
Vault Dweller
Comeon, it´s "America".... the networks would... ah, fuck it
*plays Ramstein: Amerika*
er...back to topic: German networks ARD and N24 report about up to 21000 death, while CNN is saying 17000.
Yeah, it´s right: _Really_ big shit
I´ve been called yesterday night (I´m a volunteer for the German Red Cross) to come to Cologne/Bonn airport... four hours carrying of tents, food, medical equipment etc....
A whole fucking Airbus full of it.
Later Federal Border Guard helped us.
Again: _Really_ big shit
*plays Ramstein: Amerika*
er...back to topic: German networks ARD and N24 report about up to 21000 death, while CNN is saying 17000.
Yeah, it´s right: _Really_ big shit
I´ve been called yesterday night (I´m a volunteer for the German Red Cross) to come to Cologne/Bonn airport... four hours carrying of tents, food, medical equipment etc....
A whole fucking Airbus full of it.
Later Federal Border Guard helped us.
Again: _Really_ big shit
Oh, just 21000? Still not worse than the WTC incident because those were Americans getting killed by terrorists, not some primitives getting drowned by .... fuck it.
:: plays Rammstein: Amerika, too ::
(BTW: They are called Rammstein, unlike the town, which is called Ramstein)
:: plays Rammstein: Amerika, too ::
(BTW: They are called Rammstein, unlike the town, which is called Ramstein)
Member of Khans
Vault Dweller
I know, typo , sorry 
WTC was more horrible by far because it was people killing lots of other people in a completely unprecedented spectacular way. A natural disaster doesn't stir up the same emotions, even if it's a big one.
By the way, this story has been all over today's news, both on tv and in the local paper (first edition since Christmas Eve).
By the way, this story has been all over today's news, both on tv and in the local paper (first edition since Christmas Eve).
Per said:
A huge ass killer wave wiping out an island is not as spectacular as two planes crashing into two towers, eh? Seems like God should change tactics the next time he tries to wipe out most of mankind ala Noah...
Unprecedented is a funny word to use in this case too, btw. The US has had so many peoples (sic) against it it was only a matter of time until someone would actually manage to succeed in blowing stuff up in a major metropolis.
There hadn't been tsunamis like that in that region either. The quakes never were strong enough for that. It definitely wasn't very expected (although for Joe Random an island getting wiped out by a flood is old news because he doesn't care about geography or context).
If those islands would have been hit regularily by tsunamis before there wouldn't have been enough people alive anymore to get that high a deathcount -- or they would have better detection mechanisms by now (which they never needed before and thus didn't have).
Yeah, that's what you say. I wonder what the Romans would have said about that statement when Pompeii got wasted.
Natural disasters of that magnitude can be more terrifying than anything a couple of nuts with explosives or nail clippers could do simply because there's no human behind it and in the case of the quake nobody can seriously be blamed for it (the quake was not related to global warming in any direct or indirect way, it was just the Earth yawning).
Maybe you think human made catastrophes are more terrifying because the average person can't relate to the intention and motivation of the aggressor -- although that's usually just caused by ignorance (not seeing why you as a people could be percieved as inhuman monsters by them (although people end up striking back for the same reasons) and/or idealistic thoughts about the good in man (and sometimes the blatant conclusion that the bad guys are inherently bad and thus not to be seen as humans (which are inherently good, eh), which sure did work well during the crusades and most major wars or oppressions in history including some of the 20th century)).
I'm not demonizing anyone here, if you read me correctly. I'm just saying that some people may find psychology harder to relate to than thermal physics.
Fact is that we can't predict future natural disasters efficiently but COULD do a lot against social problems which would help a lot to prevent further man-made disasters -- although it most likely wouldn't stop the random fucktard from blowing himself up at a bus station, but at least it would happen a lot less frequent.
I'm happy I don't live anywhere near a coastline and would probably have crapped my pants if I did as I heard of the tsunami.
Sole reason I didn't have that (mild) nagging feeling of uncertainity I had while watching the WTC incident is that a) it had already happened when I heard about it and b) no wave could that easily wipe out my place because I'm on the mainland. An earthquake could still kill me one day, but the impressions I got were those of a sea quake and tsunami, which takes a lot more thinking to be turned into a scenario that might affect me than Ali and Hassan from next door playing ZeroWing at my doorstep.
New York did undergo some terrorist attempts before, whereas my place hasn't and thus I would expect such a thing less at my place than in a major American metropolis. Natural disasters tend to strike rather unpredictably tho (I don't count the hurricanes of the US coastline or any such "traditional" re-occuring events as disaster here because everybody knows that it'll happen again, therefore you *expect* it to happen at some point or another), which, TBH, scares me a lot more than the possible chance of some guy setting us up the bomb.
Per said:
Beyond retarded. They're counting 30,000-60,000 dead by now. WTC can go drown itself, this is becoming more like Hiroshima.
Ashmo said:
Unprecedented is not the same as unexpected. Also you can fully expect something to happen and still not be prepared for the reality of it.
I guess I can only speak for myself, but I was far more upset about WTC than about anything else not related to myself that I can remember. For instance, Estonia sinking in the Baltic Sea with lots of Swedes on it left me mostly unmoved, since I didn't know anyone who was on it and to me it seemed no worse than any given disaster or bloody conflict going on at the same time. On the other hand I was devastated when my bike got stolen; perhaps Baboon would say that means I valued my bike higher than a few thousand people.
Ashmo said:
I'm sure there was something in the local paper about it once they got their printers back up and running.
Ashmo said:
If a person kills another it scares me more than if a person falls down a cliff; I don't really have to ask why it was done. You'd have to add an element of uncertainty or unpredictability for the accident/disaster to be more scary, such as if my neighbour was eaten by puppies and I don't know if it was just the one time or if I have to be afraid of puppies from now on.
Baboon said:
It's all very easy for you, isn't it? Tally up the death count and check in the manual how you should react to it.
1-3: "Yawn"
4-25: "Golly"
26-130: "Oh geez"
131-4325: "Aw no"
4326+: "OMG Western civilization sucks!!!!1"
Ashmo: Why in god's name are you giving arguments as to why someone should feel equally shocked by a natural disaster as by a human one? You can't give arguments for feelings, because feelings are completely seperate from logic. 'You should feel sorry for people!' isn't going to make anyone change their feelings, that's the thing with feeligns: you can't predict or control them, well, not really anyway.
The thing is that Per feels more shocked by the WTC, probably because that gives you a thought of what humans are capable of, and that shocks people. Frankly, this earthquake is terrible, but it's nothing new, really: nature can be fickle and horrid. Right, everyone has known that for thousands of years, why would we be shocked by it? Yes, it's terrible, but hey, shit happens.
Bombings and other human acts are more shocking, though, because you then realise that someone, someone probably not entirely unlike yourself, from the same species as you purposely set out with the thought to do something you consider to be one of the most evil things anyone can do. That is, in my eyes, more shocking than an earthquake killing thousands.
Baboon: stop being such a pompous ass and dismissing what other people feel on rational thought. This is vastly different from any human act for several reasons, not the least of which is the total lack of purpose.
Whatever you think has jack shit to do with what other people feel.
As for the news here: it's been the main story ever since it started. Just like with the Bam earthquake, or the Moroccon ones.
The thing is that Per feels more shocked by the WTC, probably because that gives you a thought of what humans are capable of, and that shocks people. Frankly, this earthquake is terrible, but it's nothing new, really: nature can be fickle and horrid. Right, everyone has known that for thousands of years, why would we be shocked by it? Yes, it's terrible, but hey, shit happens.
Bombings and other human acts are more shocking, though, because you then realise that someone, someone probably not entirely unlike yourself, from the same species as you purposely set out with the thought to do something you consider to be one of the most evil things anyone can do. That is, in my eyes, more shocking than an earthquake killing thousands.
Baboon: stop being such a pompous ass and dismissing what other people feel on rational thought. This is vastly different from any human act for several reasons, not the least of which is the total lack of purpose.
Whatever you think has jack shit to do with what other people feel.
As for the news here: it's been the main story ever since it started. Just like with the Bam earthquake, or the Moroccon ones.
Hey! He started it!
Anyway. I just think that it's unreasonable to claim WTC was more of a disaster. I didn't know anyone involved in either tragedy and I got to say the flood shocked me more because it was a greater scale.
I don't feel much nevertheless.
Anyway. I just think that it's unreasonable to claim WTC was more of a disaster. I didn't know anyone involved in either tragedy and I got to say the flood shocked me more because it was a greater scale.
I don't feel much nevertheless.
Ashmo said:
I said it was more horrible, not more of a disaster.
Sander took the words out of my mouth. 
To reinforce the point; a disaster in a far-off land being dismissed as something to not waste sadness on is how the human mind typically thinks in terms of association. If there is some connection, there might be sadness. Otherwise, people really don't care that much if a sizable amount of cockroaches get stepped on, so to speak. There's a shitload of people, and 60k in Thailand is barely a dent, and most of those lost were probably dying from hunger or poor living conditions already. Sorry if I sound cold, but I'm also approaching this from a sociological point of view. On the large scale, this sucks and people need to be helped, but there's nothing to be done about the deaths. A repeat of this would be at nature's whim, and unpredictable at best.
Either it is claimed to be an act from something divine, or it is a freak occurance that well...sucks to be them but it happens in nature. Life can't always be Leave it to Beaver. The WTC would also seem pretty inconsequential to someone in Hawai'i who lives near an active volcano. Yes, people still do that, and that doesn't reduce the terror they might feel from close calls with lava in the past.
On the reverse, and from the same perspective, an act of man is potentially far more traumatic, resulting from the fact that there's malice behind it. There is intent, willingness, and design to kill people. Nature just does natural selection. A person who is able to kill is likely to kill again if it is part of their agenda, maybe even to a larger scale if they feel their earlier message wasn't felt hard enough. Hence why they call terrorism, terror-ism, a doctrine of terror.
It all boils down to any relation you might have with those who suffered from either mankind or natural disasters. Those who would feel terror are those who have an amicable relation and connection to the victims. Enemies wouldn't feel so bad, they might be quite the opposite, in fact. This both applies to natural and man-made acts.
It is all about perspective and relations to those in trouble.
To reinforce the point; a disaster in a far-off land being dismissed as something to not waste sadness on is how the human mind typically thinks in terms of association. If there is some connection, there might be sadness. Otherwise, people really don't care that much if a sizable amount of cockroaches get stepped on, so to speak. There's a shitload of people, and 60k in Thailand is barely a dent, and most of those lost were probably dying from hunger or poor living conditions already. Sorry if I sound cold, but I'm also approaching this from a sociological point of view. On the large scale, this sucks and people need to be helped, but there's nothing to be done about the deaths. A repeat of this would be at nature's whim, and unpredictable at best.
Either it is claimed to be an act from something divine, or it is a freak occurance that well...sucks to be them but it happens in nature. Life can't always be Leave it to Beaver. The WTC would also seem pretty inconsequential to someone in Hawai'i who lives near an active volcano. Yes, people still do that, and that doesn't reduce the terror they might feel from close calls with lava in the past.
On the reverse, and from the same perspective, an act of man is potentially far more traumatic, resulting from the fact that there's malice behind it. There is intent, willingness, and design to kill people. Nature just does natural selection. A person who is able to kill is likely to kill again if it is part of their agenda, maybe even to a larger scale if they feel their earlier message wasn't felt hard enough. Hence why they call terrorism, terror-ism, a doctrine of terror.
It all boils down to any relation you might have with those who suffered from either mankind or natural disasters. Those who would feel terror are those who have an amicable relation and connection to the victims. Enemies wouldn't feel so bad, they might be quite the opposite, in fact. This both applies to natural and man-made acts.
It is all about perspective and relations to those in trouble.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Well it seems to be all over the news now.
CNN at least. Or maybe I just caught it at the right time?
CNN at least. Or maybe I just caught it at the right time?
Still, a couple of thousand of dead "cockroaches" (WTC) freak me out less than 50k+ (probably 100k next time I check the news) dead.
I don't have any connection to either -- no more than I have any connection to the millions of people killed in wars during the past decades (including the many people killed by the US -- directly AND indirectly).
Maybe it sounds like I'm trying to set a standard for human emotions here, but I think that -- objectively -- WTC was fly shit compared to the tsunami.
Maybe I lack the subjectiveness because the amount of people I DO care about is very limited and none of these were involved in any such disaster ever or even close to that. Maybe that's inhuman, but that's how I am and I don't claim to be any different.
But hey, at least I don't claim to give a fuck about people I couldn't possibly relate to unless some people do these times and did in the past (especially those assholes who were "shocked" about WTC but didn't even know it's a place in NYC before nor at least had any relatives or friends even partially related to the tower in any way at all).
The emotions I spoke of were those of fear for personal survival, not those caused by sympathy. If that led to a misunderstanding, I am sorry.
I don't have any connection to either -- no more than I have any connection to the millions of people killed in wars during the past decades (including the many people killed by the US -- directly AND indirectly).
Maybe it sounds like I'm trying to set a standard for human emotions here, but I think that -- objectively -- WTC was fly shit compared to the tsunami.
Maybe I lack the subjectiveness because the amount of people I DO care about is very limited and none of these were involved in any such disaster ever or even close to that. Maybe that's inhuman, but that's how I am and I don't claim to be any different.
But hey, at least I don't claim to give a fuck about people I couldn't possibly relate to unless some people do these times and did in the past (especially those assholes who were "shocked" about WTC but didn't even know it's a place in NYC before nor at least had any relatives or friends even partially related to the tower in any way at all).
The emotions I spoke of were those of fear for personal survival, not those caused by sympathy. If that led to a misunderstanding, I am sorry.
The main difference between WTC and this disaster was that the WTC one wasn't a natural disaster, which in turn makes it a little more eeeevil.
Natural disasters aren't something we can stop, terrorist attacks are (or should be).
I will admit that I think it's horrible, but I don't feel anything inside. It's only my upbringing/manners (couldn't think of a better word for it) that tell me that this is horrible not my emotions. We're taught to say this and "feel" this, but deep inside we all know that we don't feel anything if we don't know anyone that was "touched" by this disaster.
It's our survival instict.
Natural disasters aren't something we can stop, terrorist attacks are (or should be).
I will admit that I think it's horrible, but I don't feel anything inside. It's only my upbringing/manners (couldn't think of a better word for it) that tell me that this is horrible not my emotions. We're taught to say this and "feel" this, but deep inside we all know that we don't feel anything if we don't know anyone that was "touched" by this disaster.
It's our survival instict.
This tsunami-affair scares me more than any terrorist with a plane could ever do.
It prooves that no matter how nice a guy you are, however nice your country is, however backward or advanced your region is, you could get wiped out any instant by forces beyond control, prediction, reason, or discrimination.
World economics isn't your strong point, eh?
Thailand: Population below poverty line: 10.4% (2002 est.)
USA: Population below poverty line: 12% (2003 est.)
Or, in short: there's less poverty in Thailand than in the USA; and especially the people who lived alongside the Thai beaches might very damn well have been richer than you.
It prooves that no matter how nice a guy you are, however nice your country is, however backward or advanced your region is, you could get wiped out any instant by forces beyond control, prediction, reason, or discrimination.
Roshambo said:
World economics isn't your strong point, eh?
Thailand: Population below poverty line: 10.4% (2002 est.)
USA: Population below poverty line: 12% (2003 est.)
Or, in short: there's less poverty in Thailand than in the USA; and especially the people who lived alongside the Thai beaches might very damn well have been richer than you.
Thailand is just one of the countries that was struck by the tsunami, Jebus. Many people also died in India and Indonesia, which are a whole lot poorer than Thailand.