Bitterman speaks

[Odin]

Bitterman, as you probably remember from projects like Wasteland 2042 and Nurk, recently posted his opinions about the whole Fallout saga and the recent happenings to Fallout 3. Here's a snibblet:<blockquote>Fallout 1. RPG of the year. Arguably the game that put RPGs back on the map, after a long slump. A timeless remake. Remake you say? Blastphemy! Why, on the NMA page, it even says "This game is truly unique in story and setting." Here is where your education begins:

Interplay is an old company, far beyond the age of many gamers now days. Back then there was a man, Brian Fargo. Fargo would become the CEO of Interplay, in time, but back then, he was a programmer. He, and his crew made games. One game in particular, Wasteland. An immortal legend, when it comes to naming the greatest games of all time.</blockquote>And there's much more where that came from.
Link:Bitterman Speaks about Fallout

 

[Will_c]

Very interesting.
I could understand where he was coming from when he was comparing FO1 against FO2, however FO2 is still my favourite (and favourite game of all time )
I also happen to fully agree with what he says about Tactics, and partly with FBOS.

could have done with a bit less F'ing though

 

[Bobbin]

"Unless Interplay can outsource it to Brian Fargo's InXile Entertainment.. I hear they want to do a remake of Wasteland after they get done remaking the Bard's Tale.."

Although I didn't agree with a lot he wrote I had to admit he argued rather competent. However, this last statement proves it all wrong. Bard's Tale gets remade into a Dark Alliance 3 and although this would be okay as a console spin-off I don't think he would expect something like this for Fallout 3.

 

[God is Dog backwards]

I wasn't part of the fallout community around the time of tactics, but I could spot an inferior JA2 clone. It was OK, but not worthy of the fallout name. As for BOS, the guy doesn't seem to understand the situation around it. We got it instead of FO3. And when he used the 'sex sells.... thats why chicks are in the trailers' line, well, I had a sense of deja vous, strange.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That Fallout Tactics part shows Bitterman is a complete nimrod. Fallout Tactics was highly embraced by the vast majority of Fallout fans up until they released the game. It kind of funny they described the game as being Jagged Alliance 2 in the Fallout setting when it wasn't half the game JA2 was and the setting was so utterly borked. Even the lead designer of the game, Chris Taylor, said he wished he'd spent more time on getting the setting right for Fallout Tactics, because there were some major problems with it.

Like Teatime said, it's not hard to spot an inferior JA2 clone. If it had been like JA2 and gotten Fallout's setting right, it would have been stellar love, baby. After all, the concept is a sound one. Instead they opted for gimmicks instead of greatness. Gobs of vehicles, for example - but they were pointless. Recruitable and playable deathclaws, robots, ghouls, etc. If they'd had more time, you probably could have had cockroach squadmembers. Meanwhile, the world map served no purpose at all. None. There's no point to going back to a location once you'd been there, whereas in JA2, there was.

And as for Fallout Enforcer.. Well, if you can't recognize shit for what it is, then don't be surprised when you have to scrape it off your shoe.

The best part is when he says that Fallout's fanbase killed Interplay. Nevermind that Shiny cost the company millions of dollars and released quite a few overbudgetted flops. We'll just forget that Interplay botched the Starfleet Command license, the original was the best selling Star Trek game up until ST:Armada, by releasing a disasterously buggy sequel with it's biggest new feature being nonfunctional. Forget that Interplay passed up on publishing Doom 2 because they were making Descent. Please ignore the fact that Interplay rested on a license they didn't own, AD&D, instead of nuturing the licenses they did own for five years, all the while reusing the same technology over and over again. We should probably skip over the part about Run Like Hell, a console game, taking four years to make and only sold 25,000 units. Galleon, another console game, took six years before they decided to just sell the incomplete game to another company.

Yup, Fallout fans killed Interplay, because we're so much worse than Interplay's piss poor management choices.

 

[Briosafreak]

I agree with what Saint posted here and on this first post at RPGCodex
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4149

When putting this type of news one should warn people against the mountains of factual errors that are contained on the article. Many will read it and actually take that information as trustworthy, when the mistakes are so many that it`s actually mindbogling reading it at times.

Bitterman should stick to what he does best, he went way over his head on this.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

His rant about Fallout: Tactics misses the point.

Fallout: Tactics was exactly what it was. It's what Fallout would be, if you made it into a tactical shooter.

... and as Saint said, sucked out all the things that made it Fallout. Throw in gas cars etc... and a whole lot of other non-sensical stuff and there you go, FO:T. The problem with that is it doesn't fit the Fallout World and Tactics is supposed to fit the Fallout World.

There's no comparison to Donkey Kong in a go-kart because that's something done for fun and it's quite easy to imagine Donkey Kong getting together with his friends having fun at a Go Kart track. More to the point, that game was made for fun without any serious connotations. FO:T was supposed to be a serious game set in the serious Fallout World, which they fucked up.

Seriously, people, grow up. Consoles are where the money is at, and Interplay is a company that needs what? Money

HAHA. No. Interplay need more than money now. Only the idiots think money will solve all of Interplay's problems.

That's right, we killed Interplay. I hope you're happy.

I always find it amusing when an apparently small community can get blamed for the death of what was once a multi-million dollar business empire. Fallout was never responsible for keeping Interplay alive and there's no way that any one title can be held responsible for the gaming giant's death. If these asshats take a closer look, they'll find there was a lot more going wrong with Interplay than just the Fallout title.

 

[Roshambo]

There's more on this topic here.

 

[Fyu-jon!!!]

Why, exactly, is this newsworthy?

 

[4too]

Co Dependency

Co Dependency

St.P.:

... The best part is when he says that Fallout's fanbase killed Interplay. ...

This is the type of myth that has a "Big Lie" propagandist stench.

And when Interplay moves on, to God and Glory, or the shell acquired for ... whatever, then this myth will be used like a whip by the fuzzy thinking. Might even inflate this petty spittle to the bloated proportions of that Nazi cry about ""the stab in the back"". Those that try to pull this manipulative chain may only find their own necks in this self destructive noose.

Interplay was in business to create and sell a product. Most of us are not stock holders or retail merchants. WE only buy the games, NOT THE CHANCES TAKEN BY THOSE WHO PAID THEMSELVES VERY WELL TO MANAGE OR MISMANAGE THIS COMPANY.

Sorry this is the type of sick manipulation we encounter in failed relationships.

Pardon my "pop psychology" .. BUT ... this cry of who killed Interplay
is the fevered logic- the cry for help from co dependent personalities.
Is it school yard disappointment that we didn't choose to play their games, Or, a sociopaths hook to beat the lost further down the path of delusion and despair.

Damn, in this context, the dregs of my dailies seem to be a ... real life.

I trust you, you, and especially YOU, all, are doing well and keeping in touch. Still curious about the next th-a-ng.

So it seems the good fight is not over. The FO addicted need time to cope with this new dawn. Our only obligation, if any should choose,
no matter the topic debated is to stomp this "death of I-play" thing
into the trash can and get it to the curb on pick up day. The best 'twelve steps' that any one can take.

It will be easy to spot the addicted, the co dependent. And whatever the merit of their points, it will always be tainted by their self indulgent , selfish clinging to denial.

Any manipulation of ""the fans killed I-play"" ...

By this phrase we will know them, ....


4too

 

[Elissar]

*applause*

 

[ExtremeRyno]

Nice.

 

[Brother None]

Heh, nicely done, 4too

Iguana-on-a-stick is people! So are Hobo Dogs from Needles!

No! Gasp!

That's really dumb

"Soylent Green", anyone?

In Fallout 2 you played the ancestor of the Vault Dweller

Ehehehe, that'd have been funny. "Ancestor of the original Vault Dweller? What do you mean?"

Seriously, people, grow up. Consoles are where the money is at, and Interplay is a company that needs what? Money. They were willing to try anything, to save the company. It was a gamble, but because of the narrow sight, and stubborn heart of the community. It failed.

Interesting when you realise that Fallout:BoS was *not targeted at us*

"Wow, really?"

Even Interplay is not dumb enough to think a small set of hardcore RPG fans would make a good target audience for a console shooter. It had the Fallout title to target those people that had a vague recollection of Fallout being really cool, not to target us. The use of the word Fallout was just for a little extra sales boost, BoS had to fight and win on its own strength.

and that's where it failed

 

[Per]

Interesting how I began the article thinking he seemed rather sensible (because he liked Wasteland), and ended up thinking he must be either a moron or ranting randomly for the sake of ranting. The final nail was his complete logical turnabout saying that Fallout 3 shouldn't be made after making the case that the Fallout community had used it speshul seekrit powers over reality to kill off FT:BOS and F:BOS. Gee, can we kill some other games we don't like now?

And then most of the people on Nurk, instead of pointing out his factual errors and logical lapses, seem to agree with him using keen observations such as "Tactics was great you fuckers." It's up to NMA to put the record straight once again.

 

[Odin]

Why news worthy ? Well, because it's about Fallout and IPLY and also because someone needed to show the Fallout community about this.....and correct the several errors in it.....

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I once posted an apology on the Interplay forums from the Fallout fans. I think we were getting blamed for killing Jefferson or something like that? Anyway, it was something like:

"As a Fallout fan, I take full responsibility for the death of this project and sincerely apologise for the abuse of my Fallout Fan Power™. I solemnly swear not to abuse this magic power to bring down other projects of Interplay's that I disagree with etc...".

It was better than that, and longer too. Even a wee bit funny I thought. Now gee, if the Interplay forums were open, I could just find it...

 

[Capelworth]

Wow! That was quite a rant.

"Seriously, people, grow up. Consoles are where the money is at, and Interplay is a company that needs what? Money. They were willing to try anything, to save the company. It was a gamble, but because of the narrow sight, and stubborn heart of the community. It failed."

Consoles apparently weren't where the Fallout money was. I haven't played the game, so aside from the judgment of reviewers, I have no idea whether it's good or bad. I wonder, though, whether the tastes of the majority of the Fallout community should be seen as the fault or whether the decision to produce a game that ran counter to the tastes of the Fallout community should be seen as the fault. If I'm a gambler, and I choose the deck that is stacked against me over a deck that isn't, is it the deck's fault if I lose my money?

Bitterman seems to assume that the Fallout community had enough clout to sink the game on its own. Having read some of the reviews, it did appear that some reviewers were aware of the low regard in which the bulk of the Fallout community held the game. It could be argued that the community may have had some limited impact on sales by influencing reviewers to a degree. The game may also have suffered from a misjudgment as to the types of games that the Fallout name would help to sell. Still, it probably sunk largely on its own merits (or lack thereof). Though I'm certainly far from an expert on the gaming industry, in my limited experience, I've seen few games with low average review scores that have sold really well.

"That's right, we killed Interplay. I hope you're happy."

Quite a rant, indeed.

 

[Michael]

Re: Co Dependency

Back then there was a man, Brian Fargo. Fargo would become the CEO of Interplay, in time, but back then, he was a programmer. He, and his crew made games. One game in particular, Wasteland.

Brian Fargo was not the programmer on Wasteland, that was a man called Alan Pavlish. I cannot recall Brian being responsible for the programming on any particular game, although I could be wrong. Brian Fargo was, however, the Lead Designer on Wasteland.

Any manipulation of ""the fans killed I-play"" ...

By this phrase we will know them, ....


4too

Heh heh. But remember "By gamers, for gamers." They consider themselves one of us. Therefore if it was us that killed Ineptplay, was it not them by their own definition?

 

[Gus]

But remember "By gamers, for gamers." They consider themselves one of us. Therefore if it was us that killed Ineptplay, was it not them by their own definition?

That's why they changed it to "By ignorant assholes.."

 

[Big T]

"By ignorant assholes.."

"...For Ignorant Assholes"?
Aparently that's the market which FOPOS is aimed at.