Blackout Announced

[Roshambo]

From the screenshots it looks like it's more of just a database of information hacked together using an interface.

I'll let you in on a little secret. M*s, and for that matter, all games, are essentially databases with a user interface. In fact, generally FPS games or codebases try to now have the distinction between client and database handler because it works better, and avoid cheating. Cheating in MUDs was almost always a result of exploiting a flaw the coder left open, otherwise it was a human element much like GM Chase in UO. They always relied on a dumb client (Telnet, or similar) to interperet the data, but every computational aspect of the database handler is on the server-side.

It's the developers who try to develop without a sense of database structure that result in many data-related bugs.

 

[Ashmo]

Of course it's a database with a frontend, but the problem is that the interface LOOKS like an interface to a DB. You usually try to HIDE the mechanics, not show them explicitly.

C'mon. They are requiring JavaScript support, instead of using it for eye candy in a few places they could use it to mask interfaces. Why do they have to use a radio form for dialog options if making the options clickable (as they are in traditional RPGs) would suffice? Too stupid to use GET variables without making the system vulnerable?

Requiring support for features you don't use is stupid. With an interface like that they could keep it entirely JavaScript free and thus widen the support beyond just MSIE 5.5+ (5.5? Who's insane enough to claim a standards aware page works in pre-6.0 versions of MSIE anyway? Oh, right, they aren't standards aware) and Mozilla/Firefox 1.0+ (Firefox 1.0+? The current version is 0.10 aka 1.0 PR and with their markup in mind I doubt they will use any features that weren't supported back in, oh, let's say 0.8).

Don't mistake my comments for bashing. I'm not bashing the game, I'm simply pointing out flaws that hurt the illusion of a game reality.

As for stealing together the graphics just to have something to show off... if you don't have graphics be honest enough to only use some placeholders and don't make it look like it's actual content. If you want graphics on your screenshots, don't publish screenshots until you actually have graphics. Simple as that.

I am not impressed.

 

[Phil]

I figured they circumvented the maps by using a drop down travel system (GAH! I hate that). Except for that it's more like a MUD indeed. Seems like it's not that much of a competition to what I'm working on.

Well, as a side note for some healthy competition: I solved it by introducing time (6x faster than normal, set approx 250 years from now), and using a map which requires travel. Normal speed is about 25 units (depending on the PnP race) a game day (=4 hours real time). Since we have a 32.000 x 32.000 map in mind, you'll understand the need of using cars if you want to get anywhere. I don't think you've ever seen my first attempt at the map, but the second one is being build at http://blogs.vaultnet.net.

 

[Ashmo]

Hey, Phil, long time no see!

Well, as a side note for some healthy competition: I solved it by introducing time (6x faster than normal, set approx 250 years from now), and using a map which requires travel. Normal speed is about 25 units (depending on the PnP race) a game day (=4 hours real time). Since we have a 32.000 x 32.000 map in mind, you'll understand the need of using cars if you want to get anywhere.

Since my game is going to be "real time" when it comes to non-combat interaction, realism isn't much of an issue. As it is not based on Fallout I am not using a travel map.

Right now I'm thinking about using a room based approach (like in good old text adventures) rather than a traditional tile-based map. The rooms would be interconnected and I could even implement a MUD-like text interface (using a keyword system), although I still want a semi-graphical interface for all major things.

I don't think you've ever seen my first attempt at the map, but the second one is being build at http://blogs.vaultnet.net.

I've seen the map you had in the Vault, but didn't see much of the RPG you were working on after that.

Your focus seems to be player interaction, whereas mine is a singleplayer experience in an online environment. I'm working on an RPG / Action RPG in the traditional sense, you OTOH are working on something which can be understood as Fallout Online (correct me if I'm wrong).
Also combat will be quite detailed and complex in my game whereas you are automating the actual combat (as far as I understand your system).

Now to something completely different: You posted about ALICE. Are you thinking about using free speech for NPC interaction? After having read the discussion in the FO3 forum I figured free speech can be a nice addition to the normal dialog trees for quests and storyline.

 

[Phil]

As a matter of fact, yeah, I plan on using the alice engine (well, hopefully). See, I wanted certain characters to be able to access a 'knowlegde' table with several entries about things that were happening at certain locations, treasures, quests, etc. In the beginning, I thought using a simple search engine and some code to return answers on certain questions (much like in the original fallout).

But I discovered the alice bot a couple of days ago, and I thought, well, maybe, maybe I can program an automapping from the db to AILM, and provide semi-ai answers.

Note, it's only one of the several 'not much chance to make it into the game still kinda nice to dream about it'-things.

Keep us updated on the project

Cheers

 

[Ashmo]

Yeah, I think ALICE would need some severe reprogramming to work in a game context (especially if you want to restrict the information it will give players at a certain point).

 

[Colt]

I'll let you in on a little secret. M*s, and for that matter, all games, are essentially databases with a user interface.

I'm not that damn dumb. THIS is what I meant:

Of course it's a database with a frontend, but the problem is that the interface LOOKS like an interface to a DB. You usually try to HIDE the mechanics, not show them explicitly.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Contrary to popular belief, it really isn't that hard to export MUD data by the MUD itself or a grep utility to build HTML or even images from the data, and have that viewable through a browser or through an ASCII-made image or map.

Yeah, but all that does is eat away at bandwidth like you would not believe (well, all of the overhead you get from the HTML slows it down). I remember my good old days playing Rock ][: Crashed Plane; you could always tell whenever people were using the game via their browsers because everything would slow to a trickle. I don't see the point of using a browser to access the game whenever Telnet works just fine, and is a lot cheaper. Well, of course, then you couldn't have any graphics...but I'm pretty sure if you wasted a couple of hours in Delphi/Kylix you could cook up with some proprietary software that would work fine.