Bruce's Bunker

No you heathenous hellbound blasphemers, God is not ignorant that what this man does is somewhat hateful and ignorant, even by human standards. It just so happens he does'nt get off on immideate judgement of people. There's a fucking eternity for that.

This is a joke
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You should calm down my friend.... Be rational...
After all, as you say, there is an eternity. i however have only a limited time...

And so far in my time, I have studied history but lightly, however such as i have seen, more people have died, and killed for their gods... than for any other cause... Unless you have figures that prove me wrong of course....
 
You should calm down my friend.... Be rational...
After all, as you say, there is an eternity. i however have only a limited time...
Sarcasm. When someone uses three outdated insults in a row, it's generalyl sarcasm.

And so far in my time, I have studied history but lightly, however such as i have seen, more people have died, and killed for their gods... than for any other cause... Unless you have figures that prove me wrong of course....
Actually ,you are wrong, completley wrong. Mao killed 60 Million, Stalin killed 50 Million, Hitler killed 30, Napoleon killed millions, guess what they all had in common?

Most instances of religious 'genocide' are misunderstood, mythologized, or done for reasons of ethnicity being tied to religion. See Spanish Inquisition, Crusades.
 
Are you saying that Mao, Hitler, and Stalin didnt do these things in order to make themselves appear as gods? To make themselves the all seeing all knowing, omnipotent figure in their subjects life... such as any god?
 
Elissar said:
Are you saying that Mao, Hitler, and Stalin didnt do these things in order to make themselves appear as gods? To make themselves the all seeing all knowing, omnipotent figure in their subjects life... such as any god?
For following the ideology of the analytical philosophers, you sound like a (not so good) idealist right here.

Crap argument. Look purley at the empirical facts. In the 20th Century, religious socities are relitivley peacful and prosperusl, atheistic ones are violent. Thus, again from a purley empirical standpoint, God probably prevents peopel from going apeshit.

Now, this may change in the 21st, but I doubt it.
 
I'm not talking about just the 20th century here my friend... i am talking about all of history, hitler killing jews because of their religion, romans forcing their religion on those they conqured, the vikeings... everysociety that has followed a god, instead of justice and logic, has caused the death of hundreads, thousands, and in some cases millions of people...

Do you deny this?
 
ConstipatedCraprunner said:
In the 20th Century, religious socities are relitivley peacful and prosperusl, atheistic ones are violent. Thus, again from a purley empirical standpoint, God probably prevents peopel from going apeshit.

Now, this may change in the 21st, but I doubt it.
But what about the centuries prior to that?

The fact that the atheist dictatorships were in the most populous century (not including this one, seeing as it's only 5 years in it would be a pointless comparison) couldn't possibly have any bearing on the numbers killed, could it?
Historically, more people have been killed for religious reasons than for almost any other cause, aside from survival and territorial issues, which are often mired in religion anyway. And Elly was talking about history. Looking at only the 20th century is a little pointless in my opinion.
 
hitler killing jews because of their religion
Absurd tripe. He killed Jews for a secular reason, ethnicity. That's why the word is Anti-Semetism, not Anti-Judaism. It just so happens that, in this case, religion determined ethnicity.

The political writer Wilhelm Marr is credited with coining the German word Antisemitismus in 1873, at a time when racial science was fashionable in Germany but religious prejudice was not. This term was offered as an alternative to the older German word Judenhass, meaning Jew-hatred. The aim of the effort to rename "Jew-hatred" into Anti-Semitism, was to give "Jew-hatred" a more scientific basis, however, it was never intended to eliminate the concept of hatred towards Jews based on the Christian conspiracies and legends so popular with the general population.

romans forcing their religion on those they conqured
This actually never happened, as the Romans generally assimilated the Gods they encountered, and in more then one occasion (Isis) completley adopted it. Not to mention the Romans where generally fairly a-religious.

the vikeings
Ah. Silly theistic me, thinking that was because of a period of global cooling resulting in Scandanavia being as infertile as that chick in The Crying Game.

everysociety that has followed a god,
Make that everysociety in hstiory before the absurdly violent Industrial Age


instead of justice and logic
Both of which are religious concepts at heart, see Zoroastrianism

has caused the death of hundreads, thousands, and in some cases millions of people...
And set up the basis for 'huamnism', all forms of morality...religion is a totally integral part of what it is to be human. There's a reason one of the easiest ways to tell the diffirence between a prehuman and a human settlement is ceremonial burials.

The fact that the atheist dictatorships were in the most populous century (not including this one, seeing as it's only 5 years in it would be a pointless comparison) couldn't possibly have any bearing on the numbers killed, could it?
This is actually kind of funny. The percentage of the population of the world killed in wars in the 20th Century is pretty fucking big. Especially when compared to the mid-19th Century, an era where Conservative, Christian values had undeniable reign over the world, and resulted in an era of peace and prosperity.

Historically, more people have been killed for religious reasons than for almost any other cause, aside from survival and territorial issues, which are often mired in religion anyway. And Elly was talking about history. Looking at only the 20th century is a little pointless in my opinion.
No, no, and no. Firstly, just more people are killed in was in preindusrial socities, so it's not even fair. Sure, it's easy to point out how brutal the Crusades where, but compare these to secular wars in Africa and you have somthing similar. People just like killing people.

Not to meniton the obvious; the introduction of Abrahamic religions to an area ALWAYS pacifies them. See the Vikings, the Germans, or even the Romans.
 
when.. someone, please tell me, when a TRULY athiest society was. one that beleved in NO god, no absoplute true higher power, you show me this government, and show me they believe in nothing that points to a belief above man... and i may believe you.
 
Elissar said:
when.. someone, please tell me, when a TRULY athiest society was. one that beleved in NO god, no absoplute true higher power, you show me this government, and show me they believe in nothing that points to a belief above man... and i may believe you.
:lol:
Such a notion is an impossibility, like a soicety without sexuality or violence. Total repression of spirituality or even idealism leads people down the one way train to suicide. If anyone where to look at thier lives completley rationally, they would realize that there's absolutley no reason to prolong exsistance a second longer for thousands of diffirent reasons, and kill themselves.
 
Then I ask you, why, as an an Athiest.... I feel no need to end my life... even though i have no god to give me reason, and i look at my life completely rationally... It is rational for me to rproduce.... It is rational for me to ensure that people like me can be free... It is rational to proctect my society...

What "reason" What "rational notion" could there be for suiscide?" Please tell me so thatI cn kill myself and save you and your god, or any other god, the trouble... convince me.
 
Actually, suicide is'nt that rational. Complete eradication of man is.

The outcome of man's sentiency is overwhelmingly negative. See; nuclear warfare, complete fucking up of planet, the awful stuff we do to eachother, so on.

Moreso, this has proven to be universally true. No attempt at creating a 'new man' has ever succeded.

But as is, Man continues to exsist, expand, and do nothing but damage all life around us.

Thus, the elimination of mankind with minimal damage to enviorment is the rational goal. Or perhaps eradication of all life, life being an unnesicary variable to the universe, and the possibilty of a new sentient, human-like species coming about is too great.

For all your fangeled 'reason', you are, like all humans, a being bound by it's own insipid notions of superiority and ceaslesse quest for an immortality and an end. You exsist soley because 180 million years of mammalian evolution has programmed you with the need for procreation and sustenance. Beyond that, it's all vanity.


Okay, I've beaten out my inner nihilist for the day, and I feel good.
 
Wow. So me killing myself is not rational at all.... but the complete death of all mankind Is rational...


You seriously have to see a psycho-doc... really... because whatyou just said is 1 mans death is nothing.... but the death of every living man is gods will and is perfect.... and that is just sick..
 
Who said I'm not judging man?

God is just the superlative of mankind. Unless you believe in a devil too, in which case God is HALF the superlatives of mankind.
 
ConstipatedCraprunner said:
Actually, suicide is'nt that rational. Complete eradication of man is.

The outcome of man's sentiency is overwhelmingly negative. See; nuclear warfare, complete fucking up of planet, the awful stuff we do to eachother, so on.

Moreso, this has proven to be universally true. No attempt at creating a 'new man' has ever succeded.

But as is, Man continues to exsist, expand, and do nothing but damage all life around us.

Thus, the elimination of mankind with minimal damage to enviorment is the rational goal.
That is absolutely NOT a logical conclusion. You look at consequences of acts committed by people, and then you say that the consequence is the goal. That's just silly, the goal of most people is one of either power, or love. The consequence of searching for power is one of killing many people, apparently. Why this is a rational goal, is also unknown, because goals on this scale can never be rational: you always need to base your goals on your rationality, because that's what determines what you find to be more important on life. Some people apparently thought that power was the ultimate thing, others think it's love, I personally have no clue but have a tendency to strive for things that make me feel good, and power doesn't actually help me feel better.
So, in conclusion: life-goals aren't rational, they are based on morality (and sometimes on religious morality: see the crusades, the Jihad, sects, people who want to convert others), and your bashing of rationality and atheism as a consequence is silly.
 
Funny how this turned into another religious debate.

I guess I'll keep my mouth shut this time but please, continue...:mrgreen:
 
Elissar said:
Wow. So me killing myself is not rational at all.... but the complete death of all mankind Is rational...


You seriously have to see a psycho-doc... really... because whatyou just said is 1 mans death is nothing.... but the death of every living man is gods will and is perfect.... and that is just sick..
God's will? Heck no. I'm removing God from the logical equation.

That is absolutely NOT a logical conclusion. You look at consequences of acts committed by people, and then you say that the consequence is the goal.
Nope, the consequence is the destrucction of all life on earth, the goal is simply to get rid of mankind, Oryx and Crake or 28 Days Later style. Perfectly rational

That's just silly, the goal of most people is one of either power, or love.
Love is just a social construct designed to keep people procreating, power just an excuse for more oppertunities at procreating. 90% of actions are on Sex, baby.

So, in conclusion: life-goals aren't rational, they are based on morality (and sometimes on religious morality: see the crusades, the Jihad, sects, people who want to convert others), and your bashing of rationality and atheism as a consequence is silly.
Puh-leze. Man is inherintly irrational, it's obvious, we're mammals with tiny little brains and much bigger intestins, lungs and spines.
 
Ok this is getting way off topic. I'd much rather discuss the bruce guys. Are any of you like that/know people like that? Please, do kill them. And all this religious and moral talk is just opinions, you can't know for sure, can you?
 
Lord Inquisitor Baboonius said:
Ok this is getting way off topic. I'd much rather discuss the bruce guys. Are any of you like that/know people like that? Please, do kill them. And all this religious and moral talk is just opinions, you can't know for sure, can you?
No certanties certainly, only things that ever have hope to finish is talk of empirical effects, and that never happens.

I'm with you, Philosophy is essentially masterbation for 40 year olds when they don't have porn around.
 
I may have liking for automatic weapons but being in Australia, can't get hold of any but I can live with that.

Difference is I'm not a bigoted inbred racist redneck and regardless of my views I am tolerant and respect the beliefs of others..mmm, to a certain point.:mrgreen:
 
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