Calculon is back and just bought Civ 4.

[Thorgrimm]

The Commisar wrote:

But I digress. I will probably secure my own copy soon, but its disappointing its given the modding community the cold shoulder. No chance of seeing your Rebirth of Civilization mod carried over?

Not unless I learn how to program to mess with the python scripting language, and then learn how to animate 3ds models.

Now do not get me wrong, civ 4 also has some intriguing elements going for it. Like the worker boats that allow you to improve water resources. They also returned event abilites to civ 4. And I must say, the AI is vastly improved over civ 3. At the higher levels it is somewhat challenging. It beats the civ 3 AI to hell and back.

It is just they dumbed down the combat and took out pollution and civil unrest to make the game 'more fun', to try and appeal to the RTS crowd. Although I must admit it still has fallout from nukes. So I guess you could mod pollution back in, it just would be a bitch to change the scripting without FUBARing the rest of the scripts.



Cheers Thorgrimm

 

[Tannhauser]

I did not cover much of anything in my post, besides my generally positive impression.

I said "a large faction," not "the majority." For someone who says "graphics are the last item on my agenda," you do bring the issue up often.

My first complaint is I don't like the overall looks very much. Now I've played a second game, and zoomed out, and that seemed to help, making it seem not so cluttered...somewhat. The 3D graphics are not awe inspiring.

Again, the move to 3D doesn't impress me. The units are as predicted, low poly and blocky. This is most noticable in ships where they should have smooth curved hull lines, but not in CivIV. I suppose that would eat up alot of processing power.

I do not like the combat and, to a lesser extent, the graphics in CivIV.

Sorry for the long post, but I am far from impressed by civ 4, as it seems most folks are once again impressed by the blocky low poly units and buildings, sorry but that is the last item on my agenda.

Did I say anything about my stance on graphics? Because I would appreciate it if you don't make assumptions on my behalf. I don't care about the graphics, it has never been the centerpoint of the series. Notice that you also 'forget' to mention modding in your complaints.

There are elements I enjoyed and those I didn't. I felt the unit power-ups seemed a bit contrived, but I liked the 'Civics' options. I also feel that your obsession with combat is more indicative of a RTS mentality than anything I have to offer.

Basically, I think the game is enjoyable, a great leap above Civilization III. My initial impression is that it won't be as good as Civilization II was (though considering your comments about combat, you must hate the game; it was so absurdly simple after all).

 

[Thorgrimm]

Kotario wrote:

Notice that you also 'forget' to mention modding in your complaints.

Kotario old buddy, did you forget this paragraph? Seems you did in your skimming of my post.

Thorgrimm Wrote:

The modding is going to require you to be able to modify the python scripting language, which rules out any casual modding unless you are a programmer. Then the units HAVE to be 3ds max models, which once again rules out most of the best civ unit makers that are currently making units.

Kotario wrote:

I also feel that your obsession with combat is more indicative of a RTS mentality than anything I have to offer.

Ah well, that has to be your worst prevarication yet bud. Have you heard of Military Simulations? It is a type of game that has NOTHING in common with RTS games. Seems like you missed your target once again bud.

And if you would notice, I mentioned the dumbing down to draw in the RTS crowd, which I would think is indicitive of me not playing RTS games, but then again if you never have never played that type of simulation you would not know the connection.



Cheers Thorgrimm

 

[Roshambo]

Thorgrimm's right, Kotario. The assets needed for each game are quite different.

I know the type of simulations he's talking about, including the tabletop war games. That is where "Strategy" came from for the sub-genre of Strategy, the Real-Time Strategy game. Again, another aspect of P&P gaming going to computer, much like our favorite topic, the RPG->CRPG.

 

[Tannhauser]

Kotario old buddy, did you forget this paragraph? Seems you did in your skimming of my post.

I think discussions, both here and elsewhere, would become unwieldy if we didn't leave some things unstated. Perhaps I should have added "in the complaints I quoted." Perhaps I should also should have added "Because in these complaints, you speak exclusively about how you dislike the graphics, time after time, only mentioning modding (at much shorter length) elsewhere in your post. Leading me to believe that your dislike of the graphics clouds more of your judgment of the game that you would like us to believe." I could continue, to completely flesh out idea after idea, but it gets troublesome at a much earlier point at this.

You are right, I didn't think of Military Simulations, tabletop or computer. Though I have played them (and not infrequently), again, don't make assumptions.

 

[Thorgrimm]

I decided to open up the Units folder and check out the Civ4UnitInfos.xml file. Each unit in the game has a listing just like this:

<UnitClassInfo>
<Type>UNITCLASS_HINDU_MISSIONARY</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_HINDU_MISSIONARY</Description>
<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
<iMaxPlayerInstances>3</iMaxPlayerInstances>
<DefaultUnit>UNIT_HINDU_MISSIONARY</DefaultUnit>
</UnitClassInfo>

The numbers in between reflect the total number of units of that type allowed in the entire map, for each team, and for each player. -1 means that there is no limit, and any number including 0 places a limit on that type.

I am currently using Altova's free XML Editing Tool. It is the home version of XMLSpy - (I believe the professional version is the tool that Firaxis used for Civ4).

It is way too complex for me - it says it can convert XML files to XLS files. The Text editor is what I got it for - it is much better that WordPad as there are color schemes. It will also validate the XML file. You can also view the XML file as an html file.

And it looks like the units are now stored in a DLL file, or as some have said, in a .nif file. Since I have no idea what a .nif files is, I think unit making got a whole hell of a lot harder.

EDIT: I was incorrect, The unit files are packed up in the Art0.FPK file and will be in .nif format. Whatever .nif extension means.



Cheers Thorgrimm

 

[Roshambo]

I just looked around for what it was, and here's an explanation:

http://www.uesp.net/morrow/editor/moredit.shtml

NIF Files
NIF probably stands for NetImmerse File and is only used by the proprietrary NetImmerse 3D Game Engine (as far as I know anyways). In order to make new NIF files you'll need a copy of 3DSMax (v4.0 or higher) as well as a NIF Exporter plugin (available freely from morrowind.com). Unfortunately there is no complete/official plugin/utility for loading existing NIF files (an unofficial plugin does exist but is currently unstable).

 

[Thorgrimm]

Rosh, thanks for the link dude. Since I have 3Ds Max 7 I should be ok.

 

[calculon000]

My advice would be to buy the game, it's worth $50.

I really like the interface improvements, but the switching of the right and left mouse button functions has me sometimes doing things by accident. Also, it should be noted that that giant city I made with the map editor isn’t possible in the game, as you can’t build cities adjacent to each other.

I especially like how they finally got around to acknowledging that the world is a globe.

What I think they could have done is let the map rotate freely, as right now it can barely rotate at all.

 

[Thrawn]

My thoughts on the game.

In alot of instances this game is much better than all of the other Civs and even Alpha Centuri. I think the AI is much more realistic meaning they look for fair trades instead of demanding an arm and an leg for some silk.

There is alot more options for what to do with your land as well. Instead of just mines, farms, and roads you can build plantations, pastures, and windmills.

To say civil disorder is taken out of the game is a misrepresentation. The way it works now is that if your people are unhappy that city won't produce anything. In my opinion the biggest difference here is that now if you see a city go into unrest you can change citizens into entertainers and get your production back that turn. I like this system more actually.

Polution is also a small misrepresentation. The polution a city produces just negates the growth from that city. In an abstract way it is still the same system. In the old system polution would make a square unusable eliminating the food and mineral output from it. In this sytem it just eliminates the food output. I under stand this is kind of a stretch but it shouldn't be said that polution does nothing. I like this system better as it keeps my workers freed up and takes less management.

I completely agree with everything that was said about combat though. I took out an entire Civ with a handfull of horsemen. No spear men required. This is kind of lame, now the only reason to produce a unit with a lower strenght is simply because they are cheaper.

I was kind of excited about the unit upgrade ability at first but now I think it was a waste of code. You can get some infantry to have bonuses when attacking a city but other than that all I ever do is increase my units attack strenght. This system would have worked much better if you could design your own units and then pick what abilites they get at different levels but even then it would be kind of a waste of code.

HOWEVER, all of the good for me is hurt by the system requirements on this game. I have an older computer (AMD 1800+) so I am used to games running poor and loading slow but Civ takes this to a new level. There has never been a reason for Civ to have intense graphics and these graphics arn' even that good. It literaly takes me a minuet to open up my military advisor. That is absurd.

My other biggest issue is the fact that it seems they used straight text for everything in the game. That means no links. That means if you want to look up a unit in the game you can't just click on the associated tech in the civopidea and look it up. This is really frustrating when you are trying to learn the game and you want to know what bonuses a certian tech gives you.

Anyway, this are my general impressions after many years in the civ series and several hours in Civ4. I would agree that this game is worth the $50 and in my opinion it is the best in the Master of Orion/Civ/Alpha Centuri series, but I can see how someone would disagree with that.

 

[John Uskglass]

It's a great game. I love how the entire soundtrack is lifted off EU2. I actually think it's a pretty cool homage.