China will send troops to Haiti

it's 8:00 am here, and i can't take my laptop to school today. i will reply later.

to Murdoch: the firewall DOES exist, and everyone hates it. But a lot of people are NOT blocked. Chinese people always have a desire to know the truth.

i'll talk about this with you later.
 
Argentina was supposed to send UN troopers to Haiti, but the civilians here protested, sice our budget is under the microscope, but most importantly, the situation inside Argentina is just unstable to send troops to another country, we already have troops in places like the Greece. That reminds me: the US belive to be the world police, but the UN is. What the US government don´t say to americans is that they are loosing support from the UN by playing to be the police, and many other countries do not agree with US international policies.
BTW, Argentina is beginning to be a commercial ally to China, maybe the chinese took argentina´s place because of this? As long as chinese troopers are wearing blue helmets and not red ones.
Anyways, if the chinese would want to launch a world domination attack there are a couple of things to consider.
-The armies of the entire world would ally to couter China´s manpower, via UN penalization.
-China have nukes, but the US alone, not counting with other countries in the same situation, like Russia, have enough nukes to destroy the entire world several times, so this is no good for no one.
 
The US gov doesn't say what? Maybe it's your gov who is censoring information in your country? Dude, everyone here, or at least, everyone with a small knowledge of world affairs and politics or watche the news somewhat, knows the UN didn't support our war in Iraq. So? You think the UN wants to abandon support to the US? You think the US wants to abandon support to the UN?

About technology vs. size. Conventionally, technology will win, unconventionally, it might win, but can now also lose. China can send half a billion troops at the US for all I care. Nothing the US armada or it's seemingly endless supply of missiles can't take care of. Now, the situation in Iraq, is unconventional warfare. Where the enemy is unkown, and unheard, and most importantly, unseen. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I think I can spot 30 million dumbasses with pitchforks charging a military with artillery, tanks, well-armed and far more advanced troops, an air force, a navy, and of course, missiles.

As for China's expansion. I see no reason to worry about this in the short term. But by the time that I advance in the ranks of the military (hopefully), I can see some logic behind a possible standoff between the US and China. The question is, does the US, or the international community want such a thing again? Who's to say we're just going to sit here like the days before WW2, pretending we're safe and sound? Maybe even the UN might eventually push for a pre-emptive action against China? Or, perhaps we will just sit here, and wait? I don't know, it's not set in stone yet, perhaps China might just collapse for all we know, just keep tuned in I guess.

PS: I told you this would happen CCR.
 
I honestly do not see China getting anything beneficial from going to war with the US. If anything, a conspiracists dream would be a U.S/Russo/Chinese plan to control/split the world.

In regards to invasion I don't believe it will ever happen.

I find it hard to believe that the chinese would be able to move such a large contingent of soldiers onto US soil. What will most likely happen is Chinese troop transports will be dispatched quickly by either Interceptors, Missiles, or Naval Vessels.

If US forces decided to invade China, I have no doubt in my mind they would be repelled. If not by convetional PLA forces then by guerilla warfare.
 
Well, whether the US wants to be the global cop, or claims to be the global cop is not really important.

By virtue of the fact that the US has the largest navy in the world, has taken upon itself a policy of maintaining secure tranist on the oceans, that it has significant policies regarding the use of space, would push the US, by default into the position of global cop. As the major beneficiary of globalization and wiht manyh of it's key industries embedded in a global economy- a policy that has begun since the end of the Second World War, than it begins to take the role of cop. Whether the US gets directly involved or it's Italian troops that go to Albania, French troops in Cote d'Ivoire, or Brits in Sierra Leone- it still supports the liberal world view that is essential to the US economy- those are our allies, and on some issues we coincide.

This Chinese have been a peaceful people for 1000 years- yeah. Ask the Vietnamese about that and you might have a different answer- or the Koreans. If the Chinese have been peaceful it was because, for the most part they were in center of an international order in which they dominated relations among states, with all other states paying them due tribute.

I think that this police going to Haiti thing might be overdone. I don't what the Chinese in the Western Hemisphere. But it might be that they just want to be politically more active. Besides, US troops are all over Asia, so perhaps its only fair that a few CHinese cops stop in Haiti.

Even if the intentions were more belligerent, it's not about going to war, but about deterrence. If the US puts an aircraft carrier off Taiwan during the next crisis, the US has basically put a nuclear vehicle within rapid striking range of Beijing. While the Chinese might cruise one of their few Ballistic Missile Submarines off the US coast, it would be more fun for them to have an ally off our Southern Coast- like the way Cuba was for the Soviets.
It ups the costs of strategic policy and becomes another bargaining chip between major powers.
 
Censorship in argentina? Na, that's years ago, before I was born. The wrong idea? Maybe. But if you say there is censorship in Argentina it is OVBIOUS you don't live here.
 
But if you say there is censorship in Argentina it is OVBIOUS you don't live here.
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Likewise.

If US forces decided to invade China, I have no doubt in my mind they would be repelled. If not by convetional PLA forces then by guerilla warfare.
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That depends. You have to look at the reasons of an invasion before you can say we will be repelled.
 
Seriously everyone, we can all rest assured that there probably won't be a Chinese invasion of the US mainland, and vice versa. Both countries are too heavily invested in each other (economically) to risk going to war. It would prove fruitless and probably destroy both economies in the process. Which is probably why China hasn't invaded Taiwan.

Also, if it did happen, the UN would probably unite to fight and repel the aggressor.
 
FreshOil said:
Seriously everyone, we can all rest assured that there probably won't be a Chinese invasion of the US mainland, and vice versa. Both countries are too heavily invested in each other (economically) to risk going to war. It would prove fruitless and probably destroy both economies in the process. Which is probably why China hasn't invaded Taiwan.

Also, if it did happen, the UN would probably unite to fight and repel the aggressor.
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Hrmm.... if I remember correctly, war fuels the economy. Plus, I suppose one could just take over the other and reap all the benefits. I am very suspicious of China.
 
Hrmm.... if I remember correctly, war fuels the economy. Plus, I suppose one could just take over the other and reap all the benefits. I am very suspicious of China.
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Somehow I don't really think that a full scale war between China and USA would fuel the economy. Neither do I think that one would simply take over the other.

Edited for spelling errors...
 
Remember that conventional warfare between two superpowers such as China and the United States would be pointless. Both sides probably couldn't occupy the other for a long period of time. So the end result is a nuke fight, which does nobody any good, period.

War only fuels the economy when the losses are acceptable and the benefits outweight the costs. I guess the biggest example you are referring to is WW2. However, the continental United States was never attacked. If I remember correctly, the only major industrial and military complexes that were hit resided in Pearl Harbor. Small price to pay for superpower status.

Lastly, a war between the major superpowers only further weakens their position in the world. England once ruled over a great many lands. However, the war forced her to re-allocate her resources in such a manner that maintanence of the empire would be too costly. I remember Karl Haushofers prediction that a german defeat would result in the Soviet Union and the United States being the new world superpowers.
 
This is amusing, as none of you seem to even recognize what's going on in Haiti. America basically backed a coup of Jean Betrand Aristide, the democratically elected president of Haiti. This is a "police operation" to support a violent gang of criminals, the result of which has been massive chaos and violence outside of the major cities. For people versed in history, this is clearly another act of the American government against a leader that is too left leaing, infringing upon the profits of sweat shops and sugar plantations. As for paranoia about China in Haiti, maybe you should learn a little about the way a UN peacekeeping operation works. Many countries give troops to work for the UN, following UN orders. This is not the deployment of Chinese battleships or anything. They fight under the flag of the UN, as do American troops there. The irony of the rampant conspiracy theories here is that this occupation will ultimately benefit American interests the most, more than those of Haiti or especially China.
 
Many countries give troops to work for the UN, following UN orders. This is not the deployment of Chinese battleships or anything. They fight under the flag of the UN, as do American troops there.
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What did I said? uh?
 
billcd said:
This is amusing, as none of you seem to even recognize what's going on in Haiti. America basically backed a coup of Jean Betrand Aristide, the democratically elected president of Haiti. This is a "police operation" to support a violent gang of criminals, the result of which has been massive chaos and violence outside of the major cities. For people versed in history, this is clearly another act of the American government against a leader that is too left leaing, infringing upon the profits of sweat shops and sugar plantations. As for paranoia about China in Haiti, maybe you should learn a little about the way a UN peacekeeping operation works. Many countries give troops to work for the UN, following UN orders. This is not the deployment of Chinese battleships or anything. They fight under the flag of the UN, as do American troops there. The irony of the rampant conspiracy theories here is that this occupation will ultimately benefit American interests the most, more than those of Haiti or especially China.
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Indeed, this is correct. The Chinese are just doing a UN mission much like the US does peacekeeping with the UN from time to time, as do many countries.

Would a US involvement in a peacekeeping mission in Laos be seen as a threat to China- probably not if it's only 150 cops.

If the Chinese were to build missile bases in Haiti, ok. - but that's not very likely to happen.
 
Hi, welsh, long time no see.

:shock: :D

I haven't been around much, but I came back for a visit.

I was just going to lurk until I saw this post, and I laughed, and laughed and laughed... :lol: :lol:

The stereotypes in here are burying me neck high.

For those who don't know me, I'll do a quick run down to help you understand where I am coming from. I am part Chinese(my recent families aren't from mainland), but I have been living in North America for 12 yrs.

I recently took 2 trips to China. Lasting almost a year combined. I can tell you, all the stereotypes I have about China even as a Chinese living outside China is very different from what is really there.

What's going on right now in China is chaos, where money is the new religion, and all hail the shiny red dollars. People actually have more freedom than most westerners believe. It's kinda like the 60s and 70s society. It's post industrial revolution, with emerging digital and knowledge based economy. Most young people don't really give a damn about politics, they just want to get ahead. A better life as they say. Party membership as once the staff the dreams are made of is no more than just formality now, and only if you work for the government. Private investment, venture, and the "American dream" is sold by the government, TV, and all forms of media. Learn English, they say. Time to move forward. After we join the WTO, we have to learn to be competitive they say. I was in Hangzhou last year during the West Lake expo. The thing was a huge convention with more than 40 countries presented. They also hosted the International model competition with girls from more countries than I can count. The models had fun, loved the shopping, esp. the silk HZ is famous for.

I am in a unique position because I can switch my side from a insider to a outsider. The biggest thing I can say is that, they are trying. With only 20 yrs under their belt in the world of modern economy, I think they did ok. What amuses me the most is that how many people openly ignore what the government has to say. People tell the astonished me that they could care less. They just want a better life. And with such a big population, there is fierce competition for EVERYthing. If you aren't good at your job, you are gone in a heart beat.

If you go to Shanghai, it's about as cosmopolitan as you can get. It's more modern, and open than lots of North American cities I have seen. An Iserali bakery, German beer, English pub, Japanese restaurants, and all the North American major brands are presented. I had traditional baby back rips southern style in SHANGHAI! I had better Italian dishes there than a lot of places I've been to in North America.

One thing about the Army, it's sort of like social housing. It's full of people from rural communities where the local economies have failed and the only way out for boys and girls and the army. One thing funny about China, the girls have more equal chances at getting things they want than some of the western society. A lot of Chinese girls I've met are assertive, strong willed, shoots straight, and can careless about what a man think.

About censorship. Well that's the funny thing. You see, nothing with Chinese is what it seems to be. You just have to read between the lines. You can also get lots of information brought in by forigners. Chinese takes most things from their party with a huge dose of soy sauce.

Anyway, I think I said enough. I hope I have giving you some kinda of peek into the world of China.

PS. there is a lot of blogs online done by Canadian and Americans in China, why not look for them?

8)
 
Talk about paranoids (no offense)

I find this news to be important. ESPECIALLY read towards the bottom of the article.

The Washington Times wrote:
China will send troops to Haiti


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

China's Public Security Ministry is set to dispatch a 130-man "special police" unit to Haiti this month in the first deployment of Chinese forces to the Western Hemisphere, Bush administration officials say.

The first advance unit of the police troops, who are specially trained for riot and crowd control, will over the next two weeks join the U.N. Stabilization Mission in Haiti, the multinational force known as Minustah dispatched to the war-torn Caribbean island.

The main body of the force will arrive a short time later and will deploy to the port of Gonaives, say officials who insist on anonymity.

Administration officials are concerned that the Chinese government will use the troop deployment as a way to put political pressure on the Haitian government, one of the few nations retaining diplomatic relations with China's rival Taiwan.

"It's been a big year for China," says one official opposed to the deployment. "They put a man in space, won gold medals at the Olympics, and now they are going to put troops in the Western Hemisphere for the first time."

The official says China's first military presence near U.S. shores would boost Beijing's long-term strategy to "supplant U.S. influence" in the region. "China is pursuing a maritime strategy in the Caribbean to gain access and control over port facilities, free trade zone infrastructure, fisheries, oil and minerals, and off-shore banking platforms,"

For example, a Chinese company whose leader is close to Beijing's communist rulers operates major port facilities at both ends of the Panama Canal.

"They will assert political influence [through Chinese companies]," the official says. "That is where this is headed."

Administration officials say the decision to permit the Chinese to join the U.N. force in Haiti was made quietly, without a full debate among defense, foreign policy and national security agencies.

"This was done by the people in charge of peacekeeping," one official says.

China has sent small numbers of observers to previous U.N. peacekeeping missions but has declined earlier requests to send active units.

According to China's state-run Xinhua news agency, the Chinese security forces, known as the People's Armed Police, have spent three months in special training and passed exams administered by the United Nations.

Public Security Minister Zhou Yongkang, head of the Communist Party's political police and security organ, says the dispatch of the troops is an important diplomatic move and reflects China's "devotion to world peace and stability".

Chinese Embassy spokesman Sun Weide says 125 riot policemen will arrive in Haiti in early September and will stay for six months. The unit will be drawn from police troops in Beijing, Shanghai and two other cities.

A State Department official says he has "mixed feelings" about the Chinese deployment in Haiti.

"They don't have benign intentions when they deal with countries that have formal relations with Taiwan," the official says. "On the other hand, the administration has been trying to organize support for the peacekeeping operation in Haiti."

"We would really prefer to have someone other than the Chinese there, but [peacekeeping] is something we need others to contribute to. It's a difficult challenge, and there are conflicting views on what to do about this."

China has covertly dispatched military trainers and intelligence personnel to Venezuela, whose leftist president, Hugo Chavez, recently defeated a recall referendum. Beijing recently obtained observer status in the Organization of American States and will sponsor a China-Caribbean Economic and Trade Cooperation Forum later this year.

China has shipped military goods to Cuba and is working with Cuba's communist government on intelligence and military issues, the officials say.

A classified study by the U.S. Southern Command in the 1990s stated that China is working to establish bases, primarily economic, at strategic choke points near the United States, said to officials familiar with the study.

Al Santoli, vice president of the American Foreign Policy Council, says the deployment of Chinese forces to Haiti sets a bad precedent. "This now gives them a legitimate mandate for having a martial presence in our hemisphere and sets a very dangerous precedent," Mr. Santoli said. "This is something China could do more of as it develops economic relations with smaller countries in Latin America and the Caribbean."
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Argentina will send troops to Haiti, count: 500 troops. And we don't plan to take over the world. When the Kosovo "incident" happened Agentina sent a battalion of 900 troops there, and it didn't meant we where invading Kosovo or something.
The UN will send a total of 6.700 troops in total. brazilian troops head the count sending a total of 1.200 men, all UN blue helmets, jus like the chinese, and I don´t think Brasil is planing to take over the world neither.
Of course that if the US send thousand of troops to Iraq no one think they are taking the world. But if China sends 125 men to Haiti, they got to be planning to make a full scale invasion to take over the world.

Sorry, but that is the feeling I got when I began to read this trhead more carefully.
 
I'd rather have a solid and thrustworthy AK47 and no kevlar suit instead of walking around like that Michelin man (the rubberbandman) whilst carrying a plastic firearm that looks like it was stolen from a Star Wars movie.
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I agree with you here... There's a point when the equipemtn becomes a hindrance mroe than a help. You're going to be dead if your'e killed by an AK-47 or an M-16, no difference.


I think that China is the biggest rival to the US right now in the world but more of a sleeping giant as the US was. Unless someone provokes China, I don't think anything is going to happen really. And them invading the US mainland? I think tha we woud nuke their fleet before that happened, consequences be damned. - Colt
 
Sleeping giant fits perfectly. China has a fast growing economy, and like colt said, all it's going to take is a little kick in the ass and a nice big dish of motivation.

Ok, it's nice to see Chinese troops have a little sphere of influence in the world now. Cute, right? Next time, let's let them send a thousand troops somewhere, the pressure is then reduced off our shoulders. Then maybe even let them send five thousand, and now, you don't have a little, cute sphere of influence, you have leverage, and power, you are now a global contender, and a possible candidate for superpower glory status.

Am I against China sending troops to Haiti? Hell no, congrats to them, and thanks for the help. Am I against China getting some place in the world economically? Hell no, competition is good for the consumer (us). I am however suspicious of China's intentions, be it humble or not, over a period of time, they can gain some pull around the world, and as we all know, money and power corrupts. Sure, another superpower is good, keeps the other one in check, much like our system of government, but is it worth the fear and threat of a major war? Two bullies rule one playground, they have to fight sometime. Sure, there never was a war between the USSR and the USA, but we did come damn close, too damn close.

What I'm trying to get at here, is to ask you to open your eyes, and see the possibility and probability of China gaining much power in the near future. Whether I'm for it or not, in this case, both, doesn't matter. I'm sure if you asked people back in the 1800's and early 1900's if they thought the US was going to be a superpower, they would've laughed their asses off and called you an imbecile.
 
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