Combat overhaul ideas

DForge

Look, Ma! Two Heads!
I know, there are millions of mods that change the fallout combat already. I think that the vanilla system is horrible tbh - too easy, too forgiving and just plainly broken in some aspects. Let's see...

1. AC is useless.

That's right. AC is entirely useless in this game due to the fact how easy it is to hit someone - or get hit - by a torso shot. You can stack AC to 109, go to a random enclave patrol encounter and they will still hit you 60% of the time. I know they are supposed to be tough, but come on - 109 AC takes extreme dedication and should be very rewarding. After all, you need to waste your turn, get unarmed to 300%, get three Dodger perks (which are the most useless thing ever invented - I'm VERY surprised Per actually marked them as "ok" in his guide...) and get APA mark II. And all that fuss for -20% accuracy of enemies? seriously... Not to mention you have to be a HTH expert for this. Which already sort of sucks in this game.

Solution: A massive rework of AC. Hard reduction of 1% cth per AC point up to, say, 70%. That way, an "ordinary" character with Advanced Power Armor with 30 AC would have maximum of 65% chance to get hit - and it would NOT go further no matter how high the corresponding weapon skill would get. An AC specialist could get as much as 20% chance to be hit when getting 70 AC.

This would: make the game harder (yeah), but also, make AC more important. Dodger would finally give something (rising the bonus to 10% wouldn't be so bad).

2. It's too easy to score an aimed hit

Because of how the skill boosting works, it doesn't take long until you're eye-shotting everybody from great range. I don't think this should be so easy.

Solution: I'd make "aimed" shot a regular attack - with no extra 1 AP cost - and make the penalties WAY more severe. That way, only hard-core specialists would be able to comfortably eye-shot people. Since it already is very hard to get even a tagged skill to 200%+ without incredible investment in skill, that would prevent easy-cheesy combats at low levels. Yeah, you would need that 300% to be able to eye shot people with a Gauss rifle from extreme range.

3. Sniper is too good

Sure, it's a late game toy. But it's too potent. Makes all the Critical chance boosters useless. Makes aimed shots useless.

Solution: Sniper acts like better criticals, only with a bigger bonus to critical table. say, 30%. That way you can get the "tier 6" critical often without criting every hit. The critical hit table would also be reworked - torso shot critical of tier 6 wouldn't be instant kill, doing severe damage instead - 4x for instance - while instant death would only occur at eye shots. This would be balanced because of how hard it would be to score an eye shot.

In the end the character would be a killing machine only if he was able to eye shot with super-ease - that would mean 200%+ at corresponding weapon skill - and that would mean high level and/or a lot of investment in combat skills.

4. Things die too fast

Power Armor or no, your NPCs and enemies only take a few hits of good weapons like Gauss Rifle or Pulse Rifle to kill. Especially annoying when combat looks good and then 128HP Cassidy get's one hit popped by a gauss rifle enclave soldier because of a critical hit. It may be realistic, but all it does is making NPCs more or less useless (too low HP to endure high damage critical hits) and makes armor on enemies worthless (since pretty much every critical bypasses armor).

Solution: I'd again tweak the critical hits table so that full armor bypass only occurs at highest grade criticals. A partial armor bypass would be implemented for lower tier ones. Say, 15% each grade of critical hit, starting at 25%. One hit pops wouldn't occur as often. Also, armor in general should offer better protection. Right now, Hardened Power Armor Cassidy is actually easier to kill than "Unarmored" Skynet - do the maths yourself if you don't believe (you too, Per :p) - unless you use psycho of course - which sort of sucks because for all the praise "armored" NPCs get, it's pretty useless. Same for enemies, too - taking down a APA soldier takes 2-3 critical hits, even without instant kills. Too easy.

Overall, I'd aim at longer combats with less random output - critical hits wouldn't be as extreme and instant death pwning would be reserved for hard core snipers only.

5. Many weapon types are useless

Who needs laser damage when every armor has a sick laser resistance... WHo needs grenades when you can get a better effect by shooting a pistol... and so on.

Solution: Explosive resistance should be greatly lowered on all armors and grenades' damage increased so that their threat level would be high. They are low range and need throwing skill so they should offer something for all that fuss. Same for rocket launchers (getting hit in the face with a rocket should more or less be instant death, Power Armor or no... it barely manages to kill a Leather Jacket thug though). Laser damage resistance lowered, too.

6. Burst is either OHKO or doing nothing

If you're next to someone, burst kills. If not, it barely scratches enemies. Funny because single shot of Combat shotgun usually does more damage then burst, even at medium range.

Solution: Less spread so that bullets actually hit like repeated single shots. Each bullet critical chance and damage calculated separately. Aimed bursts possible. Burst AP cost raised by 3 points. It's a deadly attack, but you can't really do a million bursts per turn.

7. AI is stupid as F**K.

Can't be helped, I guess. I'd implement fixes if I could:
a) AI prefers aimed shots, if the corresponding chance is high enough.
b) AI doesn't waste ALL points on running if it can't shoot you due to range or obstacle limitations. instead, it uses just enough points to get into a clear position, then the remaining to shoot -> less overpowered choke points.
c) AI hides behind walls or doors after shooting, if possible, if APs are sufficient.
d) AI doesn't charge to a room full of enemies. Some sort of threat check would be awesome. Average damage of an enemy's weapon times the number of enemies able to shoot you -> AI decides whether to go or hide. This would not take critical chance into consideration, so enemies would be surprised by hard-core snipers.
e) AI doesn't pick targets randomly. Average damage calculation would be great - after all it's perfectly visible what type of gun each person is holding and it wouldn't be that stupid to kill the guy with a strongest weapon first. This goes both for NPCs and enemies (which would most likely mean you'd be targeted most when holding a vindicator minigun. Great for squad commanders :p) Of course if it's hard to shoot you, AI would pick an easier target to prevent abuse.


What do you think? I'm just bored and writing those down, I don't know how to mod an easiest thing so it won't be implemented. Ever. Still it was fun to write those down.
 
"Josan12'' told me a lil trick :
use the following functions in sfall:
bodyparthitmod6=-90
don't forget to 'uncomment' the line (i.e. remove the ";")
This makes eye shots harder (which i think are too easy)

The combat system could indeed use an overhaul, I hope magnus is still working on his mod because i enjoyed playing with it.

Also, theres a couple guys working on a realism mod wich will include many interesting features, dont know if they are touching combat but they sure as hell gonna make fallout feel like a totally new ride... (a harder one)
& I cant wait.

I would like to see fully unarmed combat get some love aswell.
Though throwing weapons & in particulair grenades & molotovs could really spicen combat up.
There was also a weapon drop mod, wich caused enemies to drop their weapons on death. Wich resulted in other enemies picking up those weapons when running out of ammo.

I like randomness in combat, I dont mind dieing & i dont mind if combat is short as long as its packed with unpredictable things and making you think about 'tactics'.
Like changing ammo types for different critters or luring enemies together by running for cover & throwing a single grenade in the crowd creating havoc.
Locking doors & shooting em through the windows.
I like melee & unarmed combat more than firearms, wearing lighter armor or no armor should give you some sort of advantage indeed.
 
For the Sniper perk, I'd make it only apply to aimed shots so you couldn't use it with the Fast Shot trait. No more six criticals in one turn with a revolver (unless your character was level 40 or something).

Personally, I think many of the problems with combat in Fallout 2 could be mitigated by getting rid of all the high-end weaponry. Ditch the Pancor Jackhammers, Gauss Rifles, H&K G11s, Bozars, and uber-miniguns and scale things back to the way they were in Fallout 1. Assault rifles should be near the top of the food chain for non-unique weaponry. The stores in NCR and especially San Francisco need to be nerfed so they're in line with rest of the wasteland. Having Power Armor for sale in a store is stupid.
 
Wolf you got some good points there.

I think nerfing goods from stores or changing the barter/money aspect of the game would contribute to the wasteland feel, the feeling of scarsity & appriciating what you got and find.

Wolf, do you mean totally get rid of high end weaponry or implement it in another way ?

I think instead of just buying powers armors in the store like its nothing there should be some die hard questing involved.
Gotta earn that powerarmor !!
 
Well, I like high end stuff, Gauss Rifles are cool. I never liked Fallout3's approach of combat shotgun being among the best.

But I agree that simply buying stuff from San Fran is too cheap. Especially when a random encounter - even one in which you don't need to participate like XXX fighting YYY - nets you 10.000 - 30.000 gold.

Reducing the resale value woudn't do much; it would only require more of those encounters to do exactly the same thing.

Fallout 2 is way to generous with extra loot. I liked the Baldur Gate 2 system: to obtain a powerful item, you have to fight a powerful monster. No excuses. If you had to clear Navarro for that Advanced Power Armor, it would be much more interesting if you ask me.
 
Now that I think of it 'Pelicano' made that mod called 'NPC loot bodies'.
Wich caused npc to loot nearby bodies resulting in you not being able to just wait untill everybody was dead in a XXX fighting YYY random encounter.

I downloaded it but totally forgot to install it, definitely going to to install it right now.

(here the link btw)
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52908\

I also used a tweak 'Josan12' sended me wich made almost all items double their weight restricting you from hauling around a small weaponstore, this totally changed the feel of the game.
It made me think twice what to pick up or leave on the ground, or when creating a new char on where to spend my points.
Playing a melee or unarmed char (wich I often do) had a certain eas of mind to it.
Not worrying about hauling around all different kinds of ammo & whatnot ... It was just my powerhammer, Sulik's powerhammer &
fearfull enemies trying to escape with cripples limbs.

When I roleplayed a fully unarmed wasteland warrior monk It became more like a state of Zen. leaving all earthly possesion for what they are only taking stims & suchs, it was great !

Bye !
 
DForge said:
Well, I like high end stuff, Gauss Rifles are cool. I never liked Fallout3's approach of combat shotgun being among the best.

But I agree that simply buying stuff from San Fran is too cheap. Especially when a random encounter - even one in which you don't need to participate like XXX fighting YYY - nets you 10.000 - 30.000 gold.
I assume your characters generally have a pretty high barter skill?

DForge said:
Fallout 2 is way to generous with extra loot. I liked the Baldur Gate 2 system: to obtain a powerful item, you have to fight a powerful monster. No excuses. If you had to clear Navarro for that Advanced Power Armor, it would be much more interesting if you ask me.
Fallout 2, on the other hand, has more options. [spoiler:8ad2bceb09]You are free to blast your way through Navarro, as well as doing the masquerade/back door-routines. One could argue that it's unbalanced that you can't loot the APA's from dead Enclave patrols too.[/spoiler:8ad2bceb09]
 
Riel88 said:
Wolf, do you mean totally get rid of high end weaponry or implement it in another way ?
Well, I might not completely obliterate any trace of them, but I'd make them very, very rare and only available late in the game. In vanilla you can kill the Sheriff in NCR and get a gauss rifle way, way too early. Combat is going to be a cakewalk from that point on. I wouldn't let gauss rifles appear until, say, early on in the oil rig. And I wouldn't let pulse rifles appear until late in the oil rig.

Probably the worst, most unbalancing thing in Fallout 2 is the sudden over-arming of the random encounters around Vault City. That's where the game falls apart because if you can kill one band of raiders you're loaded down with Pancor Jackhammers and all sorts of other silly weapons. And it only gets worse after that.
 
I agree. You can also simply go to San Francisco and buy whatever gauss rifles and power armors you need after acquiring enough H&K CAWS from random encounters. Provided you don't go to navarro at level 2 to get Advanced Power Armor, of course.

Those things feel less of a trophy. I like how you get gauss pistol: you have to clear Mariposa Base to obtain it. Should be that way with other stuff. Clearing Navarro to obtain Advanced Power Armor? Yes please. Seeing how easy combat is in this game, this is nothing difficult anyway. Just stand in a doorway and count the bodies piling in next to you because AI will run into the building one after another and get slaughtered.

It's not just combat that is too easy; economy is broken, too. I agree.
 
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