Commisar Chavez wins re-election

Under My Radar

Under My Radar

The neo-con's seem to be a cloudy and largely undefined caste, have flown under my radar. Use to think they were "one" with the good old Goldwater Hawks. But with this intelligentsia like flocking to a "cult" figure like Trotsky, maybe they feel more comfortable hiding behind
conservative christians. The Holier then - any one - attitude must suit them. Keeping up appearances is the machiavellian way.

I guess I haven't been "debriefed" from my Cold War - One - education. I don't identity Trotsky with the same ardour and moral relativism that these ivory tower, civilian experts appear to. I don't see his facial hair and little glasses as trendy enough to excuse his important role in building the Soviet Union.

You do remember the "Soviet Union" , the original Evil Empire(TM).

These links to Trotsksy must have been fashionable at one time as it was once groovy to hang with Mao and Che'. With my limited exposure to this neo-con world view, I can only guess at the motives.
I just find it sad that such an archetype was chosen.


As far as your reputed ""dyslexia"" I don't sense poor verbal or communication skills. It's the political philosophies that you choose to
advance that I presume a dysfunctional vision.

You imply with this eternal revolution schtick that you want an Orwellian world where "war is peace" or safe in your arm chair, a U.S. invasion of Ven. and all the other oil nations. Could you please wait till we're out of Iraq, and Afghanistan exports more poppies for your pleasure then terrorists?

Since I don't recall if you said that you vote, or not, I can only surmise that your participation in reality does not include such relics of patriotism as voting.

If I understand the higher moral plane of the neo-con's:
As a Brave New Neo-Con you are the one true SUPERMAN, the ubermensch (pardon my yiddish) and endowed with the might makes right ability to piss on every one. Never practised ''public urination''
so I've no advice, except, drink plenty of fluids, and don't pee into a wind you can't spit into.

Oh and this week only! Your farts don't stink.

As A fan of Trotsky, you missed your chance to defect to the USSR, but I hear the Isreali's are looking for a 'few good' neo-con.'s , and if you can spring J. Pollard, take him with you.

C.:
Pacifists are the objective allies of tyrants. Who said that?

If you are ironically quoting Eric Blair, then maybe you keep better company then you let on.

AND, for opening my eyes to the next great threat to the American Republic, I award you ""the know it all caramel cluster of political elitiism"".


4too
 
And, for opening my eyes on the minimum of intellegence required to get a computer with the internet working, and type all that, and spout off alot of names and hated, I congratulate you. Now shut up before I get angry and taunt you again.
 
I Know

I Know

Yes, I have gone over the top and let some of my personal "historical" grudges cloud any claim to objective discourse.
Since my taunts have shown little effect by drawing you out in text,
I can only suppose the ruse of guilt by association did not rub off on you.

The sweet way you taunt me this time about my level of intelligence is fine. At first glance, that's the oldest cop out in combative discourse. You have already done better by pointing out that my flood of verbiage is way too personal and, I will add, needlessly autobiographical in a discussion of political events. But since I know about 'street' intimidation, I can also read into your words a warning, a threat. The way a bully or school yard extortionist cows the weak. More neo-con doctrine? No that's not the issue right now. If you need that 'threat', fine. Far from me to inspire more than 25 words or 25 minutes of your time to educate me about the neo-con's you - seem - to extol. Your political base still looks fuzzy, and if that serves you, fine. It's always better to play your cards tight. I can only suppose that these 'threats' are simple payback for the personal associations I have tried to force into the discussion, and do not have any connection with any neo-con doctrine, even those I may have tried to emulate in parody.

I know this is not a 'short' answer to your plea, but allow me two more observations.

The label of "hatred" is right out of the Republican Play book, and one used by the Morrowind "fanboys", so I hope you consider this tactic of venting your hatred and not allowing others to reply was used by the same spin doctors that personally attacked Senator John McCain in 2000 when his campaign showed some promise, and a threat to ""W""'s coronation. McCain wasn't the heroic Vietnam veteran, former POW anymore, but a dangerous psychopath. Hardly a rational smear campaign, and certanly clear evidence that "hatred" finds voice in all parties.

... Now shut up before I get angry and taunt you again.

Once again, since you do not have the time to let us all know what your politics really are, and that is your right, it is useless to continue this 'intimate' relationship.
The "pacifist" chain pull was a good one and I trust this admission will cool your wrath, because I really do dread doing more homework about these tedious "neo-con's" , so I can theatrically
kick that straw man up and down the thread. There's always the possibility that you may be laughing on the side lines like some trickster of a cartoon "wabbit".

I commend you for your minimalist style, it is the modern standard, for when you choose to communicate it will serve you better than my
loose "canon".


4too
 
Well, either you don't know much about debating technique online. Always use quotes to countering points, and only bring up new points when they're related to the subject. Secondly, DO YOU REALLY WANT ME TO TAUNT YOU AGAIN?! HUH PUNK!?
 
Talking out of your ass isn't an effective method of internet debate either, CCR.

I know its popular, but its not effective.
 
Heh, yeah, but I think this guy is'nt really familiar with any kind of real debating tactic. He really should be doing it like the rest of us, I can't even understand his posts, and I can understand my own.
 
Being familiar or unfamiliar with debating tactics doesn't make you a better or worse debater. In any case, 4too's post is very understandable to me. What is also understanable for me is that the last post is as meaningless as it gets (it comes down to "Oh, you said nothing, I don't like that."). It's a bit of taunting, a bit of trolling and a shitload of useless and pretentious spouting nonsense and showing that you've got a vocabulary.

Simply put: 4too should stop going off on huge meaningless rants and keep it simple, short and effective. His points in this thread are obscure and take as long to get to as to the ending of "Crime and Punishment".
 
Simply put: 4too should stop going off on huge meaningless rants and keep it simple, short and effective. His points in this thread are obscure and take as long to get to as to the ending of "Crime and Punishment".
Crime and Punishment had people ax murdering grandmothers. 4Too's posts are desperate attempts to show a NeoCon that he's actually a Nazi.

I report, you decide, and if you don't decide for Raskolinikov, he'll ax murder you too.
 
I believe 4too was trying to point out that you're acting like a brutish hulk. Something that doesn't seem to be too far from the truth.

Is it fun acting tough? Or is name calling and table bashing an effective technique in internet debate?

Honestly, from what I've seen in this, and on other forums, debate has no semblance of structural technique. The most organized its gotten are customs and niceties developed by individual communities.

It is much more easier to just say that 4too is dumb and can't debate instead of actually providing a rebuttal. So I guess you really have gotten this whole "technique" thing down.
 
For one complaining about debating styles CCR, you are not handling this elegantly yourself. In any case, let's not take all this too far, 'eh?

As a fan of Crime and Punishment (the writing, not the message), may I point out that it was a spinster who was ax murdered, not a grandmother.
 
As a fan of Crime and Punishment (the writing, not the message), may I point out that it was a spinster who was ax murdered, not a grandmother.
Spinster? I wouldn't call her that. More a vindictive loan-shark and her dull-minded but innocent sister.
 
Actually

Actually

C.:
4Too's posts are desperate attempts to show a NeoCon that he's actually a Nazi.

Actually, I wanted you to show me what "revolutionary" doctrine you believe the neocons are motivated by. You are the one that picked "Nazi', just now, and for a group formed by Jewish intellectuals in the 1960's, and crediting Trotsky as an intellectual base to their world view, that is a telling slip. The type of fuzzy headed slip that one of your life experience and "desperate" need to bully tends to repeat for all to see.

You are the one that picked ""Nazi"" .
I supplied many colors, from brown to Boy Scout Khaki, many choices, you chose the Dark Side.
The Dark Side, the black uniforms. You picked "black", "black" your color? Red, white, and blue too boring?

I have asked your view of what a 'neocon' really stands for, so I can understand why you call for the assassination of the President of Venezuela. If you need a pyramid of quotes to recall the basis of the thread - you started - then there is little point for me or anyone else to wait for you to regroup you short attention span, and reread your own words.

Short attention spans and flippant one liners are great for the TV mentality. But if there is a moral basis to Neo Conservativism you do it little justice, and cheat those that paid the price for it's formation.

With your 2 second slogans, and shallow content you seem more a parasitical parrot than some one that wants to change the world.

You seem to have no substantial opinions only posture and shout.
Just like many "revolutionaries" I met so long ago that brow beat the unwary with ambush logic, and then rode off in Daddy's car to their next class in Business Administration. You have had many opportunities to wipe away this old picture of ' hip radicals ' and show us your unique contribution to world wide revolution.

Can you educate us on your flavor of political correctness, and how it applies to an election in Venezula?

I want you to show us what YOU believe you are, NOT a few buzz words, NOT a few attempts to bully and intimidate.

And, ... ,

AND, why do you advocate the overthrow of the government of Venezuela on an internationally accessible web forum? Why are you encouraging hatred of America? There are Americans doing profitable business and patriotic work all over the world and you may be endangering them by reinforcing the negative image of a
hysterically paranoid, Imperialist America. Don't you care about the safety of Americans in the rest of the two thirds of the world?

Don't have any relatives over seas? Yet?

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8886&start=0
C.:
... What part of China? My dad will be in Shanghai for a few weeks next month.

Doesn't matter if an American is out sourcing or on state department work, or on a sex tour, they become "America" and a target for folks with the same style of fuzzy headed nationalism that you have displayed.

What you say does make a difference, or you do not take yourself seriously. Hardly the level of self esteem one would expect from a "revolutionary". What you preach here could matter.
And it may be someone else that pays the price.


But, it's all about YOU anyway, and your momentary pleasure. From echoed sound bite to sound bite, desperately "pinging" to find your bearings.



My intended audience now is not you. Your opinion has proven too shallow to justfy the effort. My intended audience is the other personas that frequent these forums. It is to them and for them that I have endeavored to meet your one liners with this much time and effort.
I wish to ""do well in what I do"" to honor the spirit of debate that empowers this forum. I acknowledge their generous patience for my eternal quest in the communication skills.



And remember ...

You are the one that picked ""Nazi"".


4too
 
Actually, I wanted you to show me what "revolutionary" doctrine you believe the neocons are motivated by. You are the one that picked "Nazi', just now, and for a group formed by Jewish intellectuals in the 1960's, and crediting Trotsky as an intellectual base to their world view, that is a telling slip. The type of fuzzy headed slip that one of your life experience and "desperate" need to bully tends to repeat for all to see.
You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It's like reading an inverted Paladin Solo on crystal meth.

It is a revolutionary doctrine. And it is influenced by Trotskyism, and I've yet to understand what any of this is talking about.

You are the one that picked ""Nazi"" .
I supplied many colors, from brown to Boy Scout Khaki, many choices, you chose the Dark Side.
The Dark Side, the black uniforms. You picked "black", "black" your color? Red, white, and blue too boring?
You belive that we're a bunch of punk. You're trying to convince me that I am a punk. You have no evidence, so you spout meaningless garbage.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about right here.

I have asked your view of what a 'neocon' really stands for, so I can understand why you call for the assassination of the President of Venezuela. If you need a pyramid of quotes to recall the basis of the thread - you started - then there is little point for me or anyone else to wait for you to regroup you short attention span, and reread your own words.
The President of Venezuala is a corupt one that deserves to be taken from power. His administration has lead to record drops in the economy, the near destruction of the middle class...he's only won by playing to the Che worshipper in nitwits like you'reself.

Short attention spans and flippant one liners are great for the TV mentality. But if there is a moral basis to Neo Conservativism you do it little justice, and cheat those that paid the price for it's formation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States)#Neoconservatives_and_Iraq

Considering that you lack the intellegence to string together a couple of sentances correctly, I doubt you'll be able to understand a half of it.

You seem to have no substantial opinions only posture and shout.
Just like many "revolutionaries" I met so long ago that brow beat the unwary with ambush logic, and then rode off in Daddy's car to their next class in Business Administration. You have had many opportunities to wipe away this old picture of ' hip radicals ' and show us your unique contribution to world wide revolution.
Neo-Conism is about as hip as Ozrat in a flower dress on top of a 40 year old cake.


AND, why do you advocate the overthrow of the government of Venezuela on an internationally accessible web forum? Why are you encouraging hatred of America? There are Americans doing profitable business and patriotic work all over the world and you may be endangering them by reinforcing the negative image of a
hysterically paranoid, Imperialist America. Don't you care about the safety of Americans in the rest of the two thirds of the world?

Where are you from 4too?
Doesn't matter if an American is out sourcing or on state department work, or on a sex tour, they become "America" and a target for folks with the same style of fuzzy headed nationalism that you have displayed.
My dad works at a Japanese electronics manufacturer that has almost a billion dollars invested in the US. He is going to Shang Hi to insure the health of his company.

You're an idiot, I'm a nationalist and a patriot but I realize that all people across the world are'nt as meaningless and stupid as you are.
You are the one that picked ""Nazi"".
And remember, you're the one even the Socialist thought was acting like an idiot.
 
hmmmmm....

debate,debate,debate :check,check,check

flame-war : still watching.



btw i'm the boardNAZI here.

cary on
 
It reached Flamewar a while ago. 4too and his NEO CON=NEO NATZI stupidity just makes me angrier and angrier.

Locky locky please? Though I'd still love it if Welsh posted.
 
Five little things


1- I'm sure you guys can be grown ups about this and debate.

2- Welsh is on vacation

3- i'm leaving the thread open

4- tl;dr

5- BOARDNAZI
 
You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It's like reading an inverted Paladin Solo on crystal meth.

It is a revolutionary doctrine. And it is influenced by Trotskyism, and I've yet to understand what any of this is talking about.

He wants you to elaborate, you goon. How is Neo-Conservatism influenced by Trotskyism, and what about it makes it so revolutionary? Do you actually know why, or are you simply content in repeating buzzwords you read on a website?

The President of Venezuala is a corupt one that deserves to be taken from power. His administration has lead to record drops in the economy, the near destruction of the middle class...he's only won by playing to the Che worshipper in nitwits like you'reself.

How is Chavez corrupt, and how have his policies destroyed the middle class? You have to support your assertions if you want anybody to take you seriously. Now, either you're pretending not to understand what 4too is saying because you don't have the answers, or you really do lack interpretive skills.

Considering that you lack the intellegence to string together a couple of sentances correctly, I doubt you'll be able to understand a half of it.

More name calling. The cornerstone of debate.

You're an idiot, I'm a nationalist and a patriot but I realize that all people across the world are'nt as meaningless and stupid as you are.

Again more name calling.

Also, anybody who would call themself both a nationalist, and a patriot, has an ill-conceived view of nationalism.

And, by the way, its spelled Shanghai.
 
Sander, I meant her matrimonial status, not her profession. Anyway, 'tis a good book, though I prefer a good comedy like Don Quixote or Tom Jones.

Sorry CCR, but both Ugly John and I have decided to keep the thread open. Not to make it sound like we are equals, Ugly John is still my lord and master, but still we are in agreement.
 
He wants you to elaborate, you goon. How is Neo-Conservatism influenced by Trotskyism, and what about it makes it so revolutionary? Do you actually know why, or are you simply content in repeating buzzwords you read on a website?
I thought I explained this?

World wide perpetual revolution. Esentially a constant usage of the American army to further the ideology of democracy and prevent shit like WW2 from happening.

It's a bit farfetched in that hard core variant, but essentially it borrows the idea of a world wide revolution.
How is Chavez corrupt, and how have his policies destroyed the middle class? You have to support your assertions if you want anybody to take you seriously. Now, either you're pretending not to understand what 4too is saying because you don't have the answers, or you really do lack interpretive skills.

I honestly have no idea what he is saying more then half the time.


Venezuela continues to be highly dependent on the petroleum sector, which accounts for roughly one-third of GDP, around 80% of export earnings, and more than half of government operating revenues. Despite higher oil prices at the end of 2002 and into 2003, domestic political instability, culminating in a disastrous two-month national oil strike from December 2002 to February 2003, temporarily halted economic activity. The economy remained in depression in 2003, declining by 9.2% after an 8.9% fall in 2002. In late 2003, President CHAVEZ committed himself to $1 billion in new social programs, money the government does not have.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html

An economy declining 9.2% a year does'nt help anybody, but it hurts the middle class the most under a government in the style of Chaves'. This guy is Allende waiting to happen. Just hope Venezuala does'nt end up with another 80's style cryptofascist Latin American government.



More name calling. The cornerstone of debate.
Name calling started on hsi side.

Also, anybody who would call themself both a nationalist, and a patriot, has an ill-conceived view of nationalism.
There's a diffirence between the two.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism
 
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