Confused about the lore in Fallout 4+the ending.

Maybe it would just be better if the Fallout series died with 4. I love the world, but....unless Obsidian can get the rights back, or any other company that can do the series justice, it might be better if it all just dies.
 
I hate to admit it, but I think you're right. Thanks to 3 and 4 the series has changed too much in the wrong direction to really salvage.
 
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I hate to admit it, but I think you're right. Thanks to 3 and 4 the series has changed too much in the wrong direction to really salvage.
Credit where credits due: the Commonwealth felt like a logical place and setting in 2287. And the idea that that region could be systemically and so thoroughly screwed and abused by an invisible neutral-evil force is a convincing and believable premise for the Fallout Universe. That's the entire premise between the Vaults and the Enclave on a national scale.

Diamond City felt believable. Goodneighbor felt believable. Hell the justification for Super Mutants in the Commonwealth felt refreshingly believable compared to 3's excuse. The fact that Water Purifiers merchants, brahmins, etc., were in such a plentiful number made sense for a region existing in 2287.

The fact that the Institute has been systemically kidnapping any individuals with the potential for scientific potential in a certain field explains why the Commonwealth and it's infrastructure has slowed down compared to, say, Vault City.

Hell, even the over abundance of Fusion Cores makes sense within the Fallout timeline.

The Railroad, Minutemen, and Institute felt like real factions native to the Commonwealth.

It's really only the Lore Vortex that is Fallout 3 and Fallout 4's loose association with it that doesn't make sense.

You know what? Screw it I'm inventing head canon in place of what actually happened in Fallout 3:

"During the initial invasion of Navarro in the early 2250s, the surviving Enclave personal made a strategic retreat from the West Coast to Washington DC, where a great number of Enclave outposts were stored, full of fuel, weapons, gear, and Vertibirds. During the lengthy journey cross country, this faction of the Enclave briefly reconnected with an allied Enclave settlement in Chicago, before eventually arriving in D.C. Unknown to the Enclave, the West Coast Brotherhood of Steel had been covertly tracking them this whole time, knowing that wherever their final destination is would be treasure troves of technology that the Brotherhood could repossess for their own faction. In the late 2260s, years after the Enclave had built up their presence in D.C. mainland and Adams Air Force Base, the Brotherhood of Steel's presence was known, and not long after immediately began attacking Enclave forces. The ensuing war across the D.C. mainland would last over a decade, ravaging the mainland and surrounding regions with a mix of chemical, atomic, and conventional weaponry, having it resemble the Earth's state only years after The Great War. Although the war ended in late 2277 with a definitive Brotherhood victory, the faction itself had become more bold, more vicious, and more driven during their war with the Enclave, and few surviving natives to the bitterly nicknamed "Capital Wasteland" saw few differences between the two factions.

In the wake of the Enclave's defeat, veteran Knights began grooming young Arthur Maxson, whose parents had been killed in combat years ago, as the next leader of the Brotherhood, knowing his bloodline would inspire a renewed sense of unity and purpose among the Brotherhood forces. To this end, a sizable cult of personality and multiple propaganda logs were created around Maxson, including fake updates from the West. Between 2277-2287, the Brotherhood would begin repairing and utilizing surviving Enclave equipment, and mobilizing their forces for another "grand expedition". After a series of missing patrols and strange energy readings, they mobilized their warships and vertibirds to the Commonwealth."

Enter Fallout 4.

There, headcanon created, all is right with the world.
 
I don't want to sound like a dick.. but this post will end up that way...

I have to disagree with nearly everything you wrote:

Credit where credits due: the Commonwealth felt like a logical place and setting in 2287.

- nope, the whole setting stank, the place was void or tangible 'populous' and littered with Junk and detritus that any serious post-apoc society would have long since re-purposed.

Diamond City felt believable. Goodneighbor felt believable. Hell the justification for Super Mutants in the Commonwealth felt refreshingly believable

- nope, Diamond city of like 10 people... in a position literally (and I mean literally) next door to super mutants on one side and raiders the other, I cannot count how many DiCit guards I've seen slaughtered by mutants just outside the gates, It's preposterous to contemplate any settlers would ever want to be in such a dangerous location for any extended period of time, let alone build a 'city'

Goodneighbor pretty much the same story as above, there is a super mutant encampment (spawn point) that literally faces their piss-weak front fence, heck a super mutant that got lost could pretty much accidentally end up strolling through the damn place.

Super mutants in commonwealth ... you know what, I was 'intrigued' by the story that goes with this, however - I cannot begin to sum up just how forced it felt. MUST HAVE ORCS MUST ADD ORCS ... seriously, never before has an enemy been touted with such flagrantly disregard for world lore consistency.

The fact that the Institute has been systemically kidnapping any individuals with the potential for scientific potential in a certain field explains why the Commonwealth and it's infrastructure has slowed down compared to, say, Vault City.

Actually the stagnation of the I'tute I put down to piss-poor writing, from an internal perspective they have some of the best capability to really make changes to the world, they have the energy resource, they have a structured semi-democratic top down command and they have vast capability to both defend themselves and to engage in offensive operations - the only 'reason' they fail as an in game faction is because of 'bureaucratic' issues (but hypothetically these could easily have been overcome)

The Railroad, Minutemen, and Institute felt like real factions native to the Commonwealth.

- not in my eyes, the Minutemen were utterly 1 dimensional and redundant, the I'tute seemed pointless (see above) and the Railroad, to me, felt lacking in any real purpose and quite frankly on the verge of extinction should one of them catch a bad cold; horrid command structure, idiotic (pro Player-Character) writing that actually breaks their own lore in the first minutes of meeting them... oh yeah, I forgot They have Radiant Quests!!!! Big Whoop.
 
Okay I know @cratchety ol joe explained in detail about these points I would still like to add a little to that.
Credit where credits due: the Commonwealth felt like a logical place and setting in 2287. And the idea that that region could be systemically and so thoroughly screwed and abused by an invisible neutral-evil force is a convincing and believable premise for the Fallout Universe.
No first off I wouldn't consider the Commonwealth to be believable, the whole place is a shithole with people looking like they're barely scraping by in plenty of places. I wouldn't find it believable that someone sits infront of a 200 year old skeleton in a booth as said NPC eats their food while staring into the lifeless empty eye sockets of the skeleton as if expecting to converse with them. I would consider that person insane for leaving that thing lying around there.

Diamond City felt believable. Goodneighbor felt believable. Hell the justification for Super Mutants in the Commonwealth felt refreshingly believable compared to 3's excuse.
Diamond City for instance has around 10 people, the place looks like a dump(in my opinion) especially when compared to Vault City which was many years ago!
Super Mutants shouldn't be there, how the hell could the institute get ahold of the Forced Evolutionary Virus? They were shoehorned in there in a attempt to add more cannon fodder orcs to shoot at.
Diamond City also has enemies ALL around it? I walk a little ways left oh here's a bunch of raiders trying to kill me, I walk a little ways right oh here's some orcs!
Who the hell would be insane enough to place a city in the middle of hostile territory?
Not to mention some people living in two hut settlements when better places were just down the street, this picture should sum up that as well:
image.jpeg

The Railroad, Minutemen, and Institute felt like real factions native to the Commonwealth.
The Minutemen are so dull and 1 dimensional with as much depth as a centimeter puddle, Preston is always saying the same "General, another settlement needs saving. This picture sums them up:
image.jpeg

Sorry if I sound like a dick as I don't want to come off as mean.
 
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The two posts before mine say most of what I think too, but I can still add something about this:

Hell, even the over abundance of Fusion Cores makes sense within the Fallout timeline.

Imagine a pre-war world with many more Fusion Cores than the ones we can find in Fallout 4 (which is already pretty much unlimited numbers)... Why would there be a resource war? Why would there be global instability and crisis because of the finite resources being depleted? Everything seems to use Fusion Cores in Fallout 4 from Power armors to Robots to even cars I assume... So why did the world reached a point it was chaos and wars all over the remaining oil?

To me it makes no sense the over abundance of Fusion Cores and how they were used by anything that needed power before the apocalypse.
 
Likewise with the above replies, I really want to go over this but I think it's going to make me look even more like a dick than I already am. Sorry in advance.

Diamond City felt believable. Goodneighbor felt believable. Hell the justification for Super Mutants in the Commonwealth felt refreshingly believable compared to 3's excuse. The fact that Water Purifiers merchants, brahmins, etc., were in such a plentiful number made sense for a region existing in 2287.

The settlements were still too small and in too much disarray, considering how much time they had to rebuild. For those settlements to be of that fame, they should be much larger, and have much more of an impact on the region they were in. Not to mention that the brahmin caravans and rare purified water should've been the norm in the 2100s, but not 2287. The super mutants' justification was pretty much the same - another strain of FEV. Sure, at least it had some backstory this time, but I wouldn't call it refreshing.

The fact that the Institute has been systemically kidnapping any individuals with the potential for scientific potential in a certain field explains why the Commonwealth and it's infrastructure has slowed down compared to, say, Vault City.

Well, they don't directly say that. It's a great assumption they set up that I appreciate, as someone who dislikes Fallout 4 less than everyone here, but there was not enough concrete details you could explore in terminals and dialogue that we could even infer from. Besides, if they could initiate surgical kidnappings on such a fantastic scale, they would not be as unheard of as a "rumour" or "boogeyman".

Hell, even the over abundance of Fusion Cores makes sense within the Fallout timeline.

CELLS. Fusion CELLS. Not Fusion Cores. Fusion Cells were abundant even before the War, yes. If Fusion Cores were abundant, well they wouldn't be having a Resources War in the first place. Fusion Cores didn't even exist in the Fallout timeline before unless they're just fancy names for large Fusion Cell.

The Railroad, Minutemen, and Institute felt like real factions native to the Commonwealth.

The Institute was inconsistent - they had too many armies and Courser agents to be merely rumour and hearsay, yet they didn't appear in enough places to be a large factor. There's a huge discrepancy between how the Institute is described by the people of the Commonwealth, and how we actually experience the Commonwealth.

Everything north of Diamond City implies they're a secretive organisation that manipulates the wasteland from the shadows. Everything south implies they're like the post-apocalyptic Skynet from Terminator - that they have armies, power, control everything, and people have to hide from them. It's poor writing to be that inconsistent with a main faction.

Okay, I'll give you the Railroad. They had an infrastructure that laid throughout the Commonwealth, with NPCs you trade with or walk by being Railroad agents and you not knowing about it before you became one of them. They functioned on their own and were not created around the player, and for that I applaud the dynamic. I'll (just barely) even give you the Minutemen, despite them only being a "real" faction after you've singlehandedly rebuilt them.

But yes, they're good factions that felt like they were alive. They just didn't have enough depth and description to be as prevalent as a Fallout faction should be. Not nearly enough characters, not nearly enough related locations, but yes, they did have potential. But if I judged Fallout 4 based on the potential it had compared to the premise of other games, I would give Fallout 4 an 11/10. Judging it on what it actually is, I give it a 6/10. That's still pretty lenient, given its flaws.

Maybe it would just be better if the Fallout series died with 4. I love the world, but....unless Obsidian can get the rights back, or any other company that can do the series justice, it might be better if it all just dies.

I believe it should go one of two ways.

1) Bethesda cleans their act up and improves the Fallout games, outsources it to Obsidian, or we hope that Bethesda Montreal gets hold of it and that they're significantly better at making a Fallout game than BGS. The series improve and everyone gets off satisfied, hopefully.

2) Bethesda screws it up and milks the series, Call of Duty style. It gets so bad that the series is eventually laid to sleep. Then Bethesda shoves the IP off to a competent developer, and they bring it back to life the right way once everyone has already forgotten Fallout.

Let's be honest, this is the only two ways it's going to go.
 
I just want to address the responses I've been getting and thank everyone for their informative and opinionated responses. I'm a huge fan of the franchise and I'm glad people can disagree about certain points without it devolving into something ugly. Hell, I'm happy people can disagree period.

I've tried to discuss lore before on Reddit and the Bethesda forum, but they're supersaturated with pro-Brotherhood/Institute circle jerks and Bethesda apologism respectively.

After reading over few of the responses, maybe the setting can still work, but the timeline should have been compressed significantly.

If Bethesda just compressed the timeline of events from 2170-2240, I think it would be a lot more believable. The same plot, the same events, same everything, just squished down into a more compact amount of time. 70 years instead of 114 years. Shaun could still be a 60 year old that acts like a 110 year old(abducted in 2180, when the entire Commonwealth was distracted with the Supermutant attack on Diamond City that the newly formed militia, the Minutemen, were repelling) and pretty much all of the companions and factions, sans MacCready and the Brotherhood, and their backstories could work in that compressed timeline. And, most importantly, it could give more justification to the shitty state of everything.

In any event, I appreciate the insight of the people who replied. Thank you!
 
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