Creating the ultimate Slayer

[Sonic]

I have recently finished the game with a Sniper which I believe was very well built, and I had absolutely no problem at all. Even though I had the whole 6 characters on my team (Me, Rage, Clarise, Stein, Jax, Brian) I only needed the first two with Energy weapons. And now, I'm loking for some challenge.
I guess I'm gonna go with a Melee Squad. But I'm very concerned on how I should create my character. Here's what I though:
ST: 8 - Caps at 12 with Power Armor, Slayer
PE: 6 - Better Criticals
EN: 6 - Has to be an even number
CH: 5 - Don't wanna go lower than that. I'd like to keep the game balanced
IN: 6
AG: 10 - Silent Death, 10 AP
LK: 6 - Better Criticals
Tagged Unarmed, Sneak and Throwing.
Perks were Gifted and maybe Kamikaze

Since I believe it's gonna be tough, I'd like my character to be the best he can possibly be, so help me out.
Thanx

(damn, St. Louis in CTB's gonna be hard)

 

[slicer17]

Want a challenge? Play tough guy mode.

As far as a melee hero goes, i do believe you are going about it the wrong way.

Perception is probably worthless for most perks. "better" criticals is a non option, you see. most of the time you will be doing 20-30 damage at max, and a critical will net your maybe 5 more damage... Dont go for better criticals.. Go for things that will save youre life... More ap - DRUG resistance perks are a must, especially for the first mutant mission. (browning rounds will absolutely tear you to shreds) Take luck 6 and a charisma of 8. Get Divine favor, life giver, endurance is improtant. (very) Strength i dont see as being very important at all. Your survival as a melee char will have to do with knocking people down, crippling blows, and not getting shot! (stealth)

Although ive never used it, stunt man might save you against those insta death grenade and rocket hits....

 

[Sonic]

Tough Guy isn't an option for me since I haven't got a lot of time to play.
I'm not gonna go Melee Hero but Melee Squad, hence, al six party member (but a medic) are going to be Melee.
I don't see divine favor as a good thing, since it takes up a perk, you don't gain anything if you finish the game by lvl 24 but an extra stat.
So maybe 4 PE and 8 EN? lower luck as well?

 

[The.Horde]

Try something like this
S 8
P 2
E 10
C 2
I 9
A 10
L 6

Perks (by lvl 24)
Better HtH Damage (3)
Bonus HtH Attacks
Lifegiver (2) (save your perk you get at lvl 9 so you can take both ranks of it at lvl 12)
Slayer
1 other (Hit the Deck, Stonewall, Boneheaded, Flower Child are all good choices)

Traits
Gifted
Heavy Handed

Perception simply isn't needed, and while I'm normally the biggest supporter of divine favor, it's not feasible to have high charisma on a melee oriented char. Lk of 6 for the perks, St/En/In/Ag you want as high as possible to be a good melee char.

 

[slicer17]

why strength?

Charisma is so much better

 

[Sonic]

What would Charisma be good for?
Certainly not perks, because (supposing you get Divine Favor at level 15, and that you finish the game at lvl24) you get: 4 before DF, 4 after it. I don't see that nor the stat point as an improvement, considering its high reqs.
And most of my party will be Deathclaws, wich you get by quests and are low ranked anyways.
I'm afraid that with low PE I'll suffer a lot from traps

 

[Dapper Dan Man]

A good charisma will be useful for bartering for better armor and equipment from the BOS quartermaster and sellers to protect your main guy, for one. Deathclaws generally have a low charisma, and cant carry weapons.

 

[gluder]

Is it really possible to play a Melee char in Tacitcs?? I dont think so..
How do u deal with all those Enemies with Browing M2 or Rocket Launcher... Since u have to get close to Kill them...?

 

[The.Horde]

gluder:it's not particularly easy but it is doable. Good armor and damage reducing drugs will grant you immunity to normal damage, and good armor combined with Hit The Deck (1/2 damage from explosions/AoE/splash damage-godly perk) will let you get in close enough to bash things senseless. There's also sneak, but it goes to hell once you don power armor, and imho power armor>sneak skill.

Fireblade:You can afford to stay in the best armor even with crappy CH/barter skill as long as you keep bringing back lots of guns/ammo to sell (hint:while ammo doesn't sell for as much as weapons it also isn't hit nearly as hard by value reduction from selling lots of it). A good steal skill and judicious saving will get you all the drugs/medical supplies you want.

Sonic:yes with low PE you won't be that great a trap spotter w/out a very good investment in the traps skill. But on the otherhand, mines are generally pretty obvious and after playing the game/a mission once or twice you've pretty much got it down where they are. You could go with that perk that halves your chances at triggering traps, but really memory should be enough. Also, have whatever squadmate has the highest perception develop the trap skill and have him lead the way through minefields rather than the main char

Warning:I'm about to get a little rosh-like on slicer, but I do it in hopes that he will realize how idiotic his question was, considering I covered all the bases in the post I made prior to his.
Slicer:you really could use a brain checkup, but I'll humor you just a little and break it down so a clueless person could understand.
ST:Need 8 for the Slayer perk/determines melee damage
PE:Not needed for melee
EN:If you're gonna charge people you gotta have as much hp as possible
CH:Takes a back burner as there is simply no room for it in HIS game. Like I said divine favor is pointless in normal mode b/c you won't get lvl 25+. If you're not playing tough guy, divine favor is simply a gain statistic that requires 8 CH to get in the first place-sacrificing 6 stat points that could be better spent elsewhere, have to be better spent b/c doable melee chars leave little room for fancies and whims. Now if he was playing tough guy, it'd be a gain statistic and 2 extra perks, which would still be questionable considering HE IS GOING FOR A MELEE GUY! THAT REQUIRES A WHOLE DIFFERENT BUILD, AND DOESN'T LEAVE SPARE POINTS FOR CH! He won't be buying tons of guns/ammo/drugs, he won't be able to benefit from divine favor, the only possible benefit he will have from good CH is getting his deathclaw recruits a mission or two earlier, and that's simply not enough rationalization to take 6 freaking stat points away from the other stats which absolutely need them for a melee character to work!
IN:gotta have lotsa skill points always
AG:gotta have 8 for the Slayer perk, and more AP/AC/better AP regeneration is a good thing
LK:need 6 for some perks
I mean seriously, what kind of question is why ST for a melee character? OMG whats melee? ... -_-;;

 

[Sonic]

I think I'll go with that char The.Horde said. I really hate killing PE since I've always been a Sniper, and very fond of it.
now, what about the Traits? We have gifted so that's one. What about the other one? I'm having serious doubts about Kamikaze, since AC will me much more necesary since I'm Melee.

 

[Dapper Dan Man]

I think I'll go with that char The.Horde said. I really hate killing PE since I've always been a Sniper, and very fond of it.
now, what about the Traits? We have gifted so that's one. What about the other one? I'm having serious doubts about Kamikaze, since AC will me much more necesary since I'm Melee.

Bruiser? Actually, I would probably go for either Finesse or Fast Shot, given your style. Greater criticals or greater attack speed/less AP. Up to you.

 

[The.Horde]

I'd recommend heavy handed. It's +4 melee damage, which is the equivalent of 2 extra ranks of Bonus HtH damage. Finesse hurts more than it helps in general, and when you get slayer all hits are upgraded to criticals (although that will be on the last mission :/). Vodoo>finesse imho anyways. Bruiser won't really do that much for you-all you need is 8 ST, and the only important stat to a melee character that isn't already at 10 is IN at 9, and 1 extra IN/something else isn't worth -2 AP. Fast shot doesn't affect HtH attacks btw...
Heavy handed would be best. Small frame or kamikaze you could get, but heavy handed will enhance your performance the most with the least cost.

 

[Sonic]

Would HtH Evade be good? specially if I take Kamikaze.

 

[The.Horde]

Honestly no. To succeed at HtH you must augment yourself. If you choose unarmed you NEED the powerfist. Melee you need either the ripper (most living things), diamond spears (really armored living things) or the cattle prod (it disintegrates bots). Melee is somewhat better at adapting to your opponents, and is what I go for when I feel like HtH. But trust me on this-you won't be able to finish the game HtH w/out augmenting yourself unless you practically OD your squad on voodoos and psychos. If you want kamikaze the way to balance it out is by having extra good damage resist-taking psychos on tough missions, not by giving up your ability to do damage just to get that AC back. Its honestly kind of funny. Hmmm, I'll take Kamikaze so I'll do more damage, but I lose AC so to make up for that I'll get HtH evade to boost AC though I won't be able to use weapons so my damage goes down. A funny and ironic full circle that way my friend. Go with heavy handed and use weapons.

 

[slicer17]

why am i so ridicules? I played tough guy mode with 3 meleers in my group,

Maybe you should try my way before you bash it.

 

[Roshambo]

why am i so ridicules? I played tough guy mode with 3 meleers in my group,

Maybe you should try my way before you bash it.

Maybe you should read the topic for your answer, as it has been debunked a number of times. Divine Favor isn't anywhere as useful for a melee character than say...more Strength. All DF would give you is another point to Agility and extra perks. Exactly how the hell is that going to help a melee character? No, I don't care if you played through with gimped melee characters, everyone else seems to have played the game.

In fact, it fucks you over for other, better Perks that a melee character could use, such as Loner. Loner is one of the bugged ones where it works no matter what your distance is between your other squad mates. I think because of that Sonic should lower CHA to and add more to another, more useful stat to a melee character, long before something that would +1 to AGI and give a few more perks that you now can't take because you don't have the STR.

Divine Favor really only works best for Leader characters that can also utilize the use of CHA for Leader and other recruiting party-based skills. Slayers are already at a disadvantage at not being able to take all the melee-based perks, why toss more points into CHA for a perk that is otherwise useless is beyond anyone's understanding.

You know why people might be a little short with you? It might be because you don't bother to put any background behind your post. You just basically said "Nuh-uh! I'm right!" and didn't prove anything other than you were probably working against yourself.

 

[The.Horde]

why am i so ridicules? I played tough guy mode with 3 meleers in my group,

Maybe you should try my way before you bash it.

For fuck's sake man, manner/wise up. First of all you have given no details, no convincing arguments, in fact, nothing of substance period. Not to mention what you have said is balls to wall idiotic if you had been paying the slightest attention to the rest of the things that have been written in this thread. I laid out exactly what Sonic needed to go and gave the basic reasoning behind it. Then you come in with your

why strength?

Charisma is so much better

when I already said why you can't have high charisma. Did you think I didn't know anything charisma did?

and while I'm normally the biggest supporter of divine favor, it's not feasible to have high charisma on a melee oriented char.

Then I for Sonic's sake decide to humor you and go into a detailed explanation of why each stat was where it was at. I even give 200~ words to charisma, detailing why taking 6 points away from other stats that need them more is folly and pointing out each and every benefit of high charisma and why it was pointless for the character/game he is proposing.

Then you dare to presume, that with all the detailed explanations and providing the logic behind it I was giving him, that I must not have a fucking clue as to what I am talking about.

Maybe you should try my way before you bash it.

You gave all of like 25 words in which you did nothing to refute any of the arguments I gave, much less come up with one of your own other than an ignorant I must be right. When I tell him what to set each stat at, tell him exactly which perks and traits he wants, how the hell does that brain of yours say "he's pulling those numbers out of his ass he has obviously never built/played a HtH character."

Newsflash! What I told him comes from experience genius! When I first tried a HtH main character, I thought I could make a CH8 guy work. I am one of the biggest supporters of divine favor ever! My guy just wouldn't cut it-I had to tone the difficulty down. Not to mention (though I ALREADY HAVE) the fact that he won't be getting the extra perks from divine favor because he won't be playing on tough guy. You have got to be playing it on easy where just about anything works, because on hard or insane, every little thing you can do to enhance the performance of your guy, you do it, especially if you're already handicapping yourself by going the HtH route. And this is a fucking nuance I know, but the topic is creating the ULTIMATE SLAYER, not creating a squad leader who is passable at HtH on lesser difficulties.

Something tells me you're gonna try to make some kind of retort to this rather than realize when you've been tried and found wanting, so when you do, do us a favor and at least try to back up what you're shitting out-I'd much prefer being entertained by you rather than just pissed off. Cheers...

 

[slicer17]

Its really sad that this maddens you. Perhaps if i shot your mom or something, i would understand, but this is just weird that you would be mad about such a thing, so fine, here goes...

I have used a HTH character with these stats. Its been a while so they may be off slightly

str 6
end 3-4
perception 2
charisma 7 ( 8 after perk)
10 int (i would recomend 9)
10 agi
6 or 7 luck i dont remember.

(these are rough estimates, i havent played in 3 or 4 weeks)

this was on tough guy mode and the default difficulty.

Gifted trait plus the trait that gives u +1 to agility at expense of load.

Sneakd
HtH
Traps

Even with power armor my sneak was 150+

The charisma of 8 allows you to recruit the character you will be using the hole game MUCH earlier as well as protecting them from the stupid perks the computer will choose for you

Divine favor is just a plus + its not necessary, but i never see a point to go without it. Also the LEader Perk is great. I didnt choose lifegiver on my main guy because after power armor and drugs you dont need it. All together his hp was around 120 at the end of the game compared to mother who had 500ish, but no armor.

Str only effects damage by 3-4, so its really not worth it when your goign to have to hit an enemy 7-8 times.

I could have used more endurance, but i was a bit of a perfectionist and played tough guy, so i just had to restart when a browning burst took my head off.

Agility, you need 10. Nuff said

Luck. I'm not entirely sure what luck does to be honest. I just knew it was good for choosing some of the + dmg/crit perks, but i dont feel it was so necessary for this type of character. Especially if you do go for slayer. But slayer isnt important either.

I dont think i got to lvl 24 (slayer) until the last 2 levels, so really, IT ISNT THAT IMPORTANT. I used the power fists i believe on mother and myself.

Again, the main point of having a melee character is the ability to keep enemies on their backs. Thats exactly what i did.

I hope this helps Horde. And really, CALM DOWN. Its just a difference of opinions. Im sorry if i wasn't so attuitive to your posts, but please, chill. We are all allowed our opinions. You may feel mine are dumb, which in reprospect, i can see how you feel that because i did not justify my opinions, but now you have it. So please, take a breather.

 

[Roshambo]

I'll say it's a good thing you never played in multiplayer, because for an "Ultimate Slayer", yours are a little on a Gimped side, and the extra strength DOES matter. Please read the topic again before you try an amateurish 2 cents. Hell, most of the walkthroughs have Slayer perk guides.

The charisma of 8 allows you to recruit the character you will be using the hole game MUCH earlier as well as protecting them from the stupid perks the computer will choose for you

Divine favor is just a plus + its not necessary, but i never see a point to go without it. Also the LEader Perk is great. I didnt choose lifegiver on my main guy because after power armor and drugs you dont need it. All together his hp was around 120 at the end of the game compared to mother who had 500ish, but no armor.

Nobody said shit about the party, only the main character, so stow the weak validation for pumping more into CHA.

Again, read the damn topic before you make another skewed "opinion". Don't go into the victim complex because you got corrected at what you were attempting to talk about before, then posted something almost entirely not relevant.

A Slayer with Leader. Comical.

PS: Loner can counter the negative effects of the Gifted trait, for more stat points. The -5% per level is a bit moot given the fact that you can use the extra CHA in lowering CHA to 4 for the Loner perk, as well as remove some of the downside by putting them into INT.

 

[The.Horde]

Its really sad that this maddens you.

Wrong. Its really sad that after reading my and Rosh's posts that you still have not picked up on why you are being attacked in the first place.

Perhaps if i shot your mom or something, i would understand, but this is just weird that you would be mad about such a thing, so fine, here goes...

Mad is the wrong word. It's not a case of foaming at the mouth and hurling keyboards across the room, but rather being intelluctually irritated by persistant stupidy, ignorance, and refusal to attempt before now to either reinforce your point or break down mine-blanket statements of I'm right, you're wrong simply don't fly here.

The charisma of 8 allows you to recruit the character you will be using the hole game MUCH earlier as well as protecting them from the stupid perks the computer will choose for you

Divine favor is just a plus + its not necessary, but i never see a point to go without it. Also the LEader Perk is great. I didnt choose lifegiver on my main guy because after power armor and drugs you dont need it. All together his hp was around 120 at the end of the game compared to mother who had 500ish, but no armor.

Rosh already commented on this, and I essentially echo what he said.

Str only effects damage by 3-4, so its really not worth it when your goign to have to hit an enemy 7-8 times.

Wrong. It is worth it when you only have to hit an enemy 5-6 times vs 7-8 when there's 2 or 3 more of them shooting at you.

I could have used more endurance, but i was a bit of a perfectionist and played tough guy, so i just had to restart when a browning burst took my head off.

No kidding. Guess what kid, EN rivals ST for being the most important attribute to a HtH character. Why? Because you have to survive closing to point blank range and then staying there until you have killed your opponent. And using lots of psychos etc, only covers normal damage-there are about 1/2 dozen other types out there, not the least of which would be explosive and energy. Not only that, but psychos and other damage reducing drugs are not so plentiful as to allow you to give one out to the whole party for each and every mission. HP is critical to the success of HtH combat.

Agility, you need 10. Nuff said

Agreed, high agility is very important. If I didn't already agree that AG should be at 10 you would have done nothing to convince anybody but whatever.

Luck. I'm not entirely sure what luck does to be honest. I just knew it was good for choosing some of the + dmg/crit perks, but i dont feel it was so necessary for this type of character.

I'm not particularly suprised you're not exactly sure what luck does. You are more or less on the right track though that the reason a luck of 6 is needed is for perks. It also is the base determiner of criticals but whatever.

I dont think i got to lvl 24 (slayer) until the last 2 levels, so really, IT ISNT THAT IMPORTANT. I used the power fists i believe on mother and myself.

I'll actually sort of agree with you on this one. I don't know how you got Slayer with a ST of 6, but yes, you have to go through the majority of the game without Slayer therefore it is not something you rely on. That said, it makes those last two levels a cakewalk and is the sole reward for having labored through 9/10 of the game at a handicap.

Again, the main point of having a melee character is the ability to keep enemies on their backs. Thats exactly what i did.

Not sure how you figured that-grenadiers and rocket launchers do a far more reliable job at keeping people on their backs, though deathclaws do a damn good one as well. But, the point of melee characters is the same as any other-to kill the enemies. However, I will concede that this is a matter of preference.

I hope this helps Horde. And really, CALM DOWN.

Actually it didn't. Very few things you said had merit. And once again, I'm not actually mad.

Its just a difference of opinions. Im sorry if i wasn't so attuitive to your posts, but please, chill. We are all allowed our opinions.

Wrong. It would be if you weren't off topic, but you are. Again, and I know not how many times it will take for this to sink in, but the topic of the post is:CREATING THE ULTIMATE SLAYER. Got it yet? Not making a squad leader who's only halfway passable at HtH on lesser difficulities and then trying to justify it by saying look how good a leader he is.

You may feel mine are dumb, which in reprospect, i can see how you feel that because i did not justify my opinions, but now you have it.

Hey look here, he's finally getting part of what myself and Rosh have been saying. I'd almost say too little too late and still mostly wrong but I'm just a tiny bit nicer than Rosh and try to find the silver lining.(;p <3 ya anyways Rosh).

So please, take a breather.

I will if/when you finally get it all together. Warm regards and best wishes for rehabilitating you into a good poster ...