CT Phipps' review of Fallout 4

Dr Fallout said:
Immature yes, but ultimately accurate.

And there's been nothing to show otherwise. All his writing changes and headcanon have been merely to add more cool.
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It wasn't an attempt to disrespect you, by all means. I fully respect you have a deep fondness for the deeper and more serious elements of the Fallout world. I personally respect this viewpoint and think Fallout is a series which has quite a few deep things to say about a lot of issues.

However, it sums up that post above and me in the fact I don't mind being that guy. :)

Dr Fallout said:
Pretty much. He puts way too much emphasis on the cool and flashy aspects of Fallout, something Tim Cain would cry over.
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The thing is, Dr. Fallout is I think you can love both. Mark Twain is my personal writing idol and he was a man who was a master of both deeply vicious satire of terrible injustices as well as a man who loved writing kooky funny shit.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Pretty much. He puts way too much emphasis on the cool and flashy aspects of Fallout, something Tim Cain would cry over.
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My current signature is proof of that (or rather the quote from Tim Cain I'm using proves that).

I guess the general Fallout fanbase (except for NMA and some of the more reasonable sorts on r/Fallout and r/ClassicFallout) don't remember how Fallout was meant to explore the ethics of a post-apocalyptic world with enough fictional differences to make the setting a contemporary one rather than realistic.

CT Phipps said:
that guy.
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Hope this is amusing at least (no offense meant but the line "that guy" brings this clip to mind):
 
CT Phipps said:
The thing is, Dr. Fallout is I think you can love both. Mark Twain is my personal writing idol and he was a man who was a master of both deeply vicious satire of terrible injustices as well as a man who loved writing kooky funny shit.
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You can, but note that Mark Twain kept the two separate most of the time.
 
My love of Bethesda and Fallout 3

I have to get going to bed (I'm insominiacing again) but while I have an unashamed and unabashed love for the wacky, surreal, and over-the-top in Fallout, I also respect the fundamental themes of Fallout which allow these elements to have meaning behind them.

One of the reasons I came to dislike Saints Row when everyone else was loving it was that I felt it had lost its balance after Saints Row 2. Saints Row 3 had alot more wacky and bizarre (taken to the 11 in 4) but Saints Row 2 had a lot of reminders that the Boss was fundamentally an evil person.

It had epic weight and drama where his friends were murdered because of the gang lifestyle and often in horrible ways because of the Boss' ego. It had a message that all of the glamour of the gang lifestyle came at a horrific cost. Which was ultimately rejected because the consumer didn't particularly seem to want mercy killings, tragedy, and emotional resonance in their game.

In the case of Fallout, I came back to the franchise with Fallout 3 not because of the goofy elements like the Ant-Agonizer or Mechanist or Sierra Petrovita or even the fact it's fun to shoot Wasteland Nazis in their powered armored face. In fact, what made me love Fallout again and reminded me of all the best elements of the series was the somber critique of American jingoism and the horrific cost of war--especially nuclear war.

Exploring the Capital Wasteland was what convinced me that Bethesda and its writers "Got it." I live in Kentucky and the militia/survivalist movement is very popular in my area as well as those who favor anarchist sentiments. I, myself, have a lot of anti-government leanings but they're in terms of reform rather than overthrow or collapse.

The entire game creates a beautiful testament to the tragic loss of the Pre-War World. As horrific as the Enclave-ruled America was, the essence of America still had value. The skeletons and terminal entries showed countless people living normal and beautiful lives before they were destroyed by the selfishness of American war mongering. The refusal to seek peace or make compromises with the Chinese as Richard Nixon did in RL.

If there is one area which Fallout 4 failed almost completely in it was the fact that it refused to capitalize on the immense sense of loss, regret, and sadness the Sole Survivor had to see at the murder of his loved ones in a war which they had nothing to do with beyond their status as American citizens.

There's only one single bit of the game which I felt really jumped out and said FALLOUT HAS SERIOUS THINGS TO SAY ABOUT SERIOUS THINGS. That was the holotape where a pregnant young woman fled to a cabin after her parents kicked her out--and died there, alone, sad, and afraid.

Vault-Tech's "Wacky" experiments don't have shit on quiet moments like that.

Sadly, there wasn't many of them.

"War never changes" is a statement of the futility of humanity trying to rise above its darker nature. That it will always happen and that it will always be over stupid stupid shit. Sadly, I don't think the developers of Fallout 4 realized that the Institute being destroyed by the other factions or the Brotherhood by the Institute is a TRAGEDY not a victory.
 
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CT Phipps said:
As horrific as the Enclave-ruled America was, the essence of America still had value. The skeletons and terminal entries showed countless people living normal and beautiful lives before they were destroyed by the selfishness of American war mongering
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Just to clarify: Actually, pre-War America was not such a happy and peaceful place. It was a nation falling apart as time went on with mass rioting, spread of a super plague, plenty of McCarthy-inspired paranoia, and mass oppression. The secret cabal that became the Enclave were not in complete control over America, all they had was influence and position.

The wiki page I'm linking is a good read on how bleak things actually got (which makes the prologue to 4 seem rather incongruous to the actual reality of the established setting):
http://fallout.gamepedia.com/United_States_of_America#The_Collapse_of_America

For what it's worth, hope your dog gets better.
 
CerberusGate said:
Just to clarify: Actually, pre-War America was not such a happy and peaceful place. It was a nation falling apart as time went on with mass rioting, spread of a super plague, plenty of McCarthy-inspired paranoia, and mass oppression. The secret cabal that became the Enclave were not in complete control over America, all they had was influence and position.
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Before I go check that out, just off the top of my head: Chinese internment, the New Plague, the collapse of 90% of the world due to the Resource Wars, the invasion of Canada and war crimes against its citizens, the savage fighting of Anchorage, the Vault-Tech experiments, the fact the Enclave is basically the Illuminati, the use of human brains in RoboBrains, and lots of other stuff. I honestly think the original games did this better (SHOCK) as they made a believable timeline of American exceptionalism turned to American Nazism but Bethesda has gone a little too far.

The Vaults, in particular, are now just cartoonish.

I actually think one of the best parts of Fallout 3 was the contrast between America as Reality vs. America as Ideal which was a running theme throughout the game. The Lincoln Memorial as a rallying place for modern-day slaves, the documents retrieved from the Smithsonian so Rivet City can become the basis of a new United States, and the fact Liberty Prime is killing American soldiers fighting for America--but who are absolutely evil.

It's why I like the Enclave over the Master because they represent the worst of what America could become if it gives into xenophobia, warmongering, and fear--just like it has in the past.
 
CerberusGate said:
Just to clarify: Actually, pre-War America was not such a happy and peaceful place. It was a nation falling apart as time went on with mass rioting, spread of a super plague, plenty of McCarthy-inspired paranoia, and mass oppression.
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latest
 
hag said:
i see, i hope your dog gets better soon.

while that is correct, it's not every single person on here that is so extremist. i'm foremost here for the sake of discussing or speculating upon earlier Fallout games, as this is pretty much the only place to do so.
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My love of Nuka World aside *sips a bottle of Nuka Cola*, I love the original Fallout games. I'm not here to pick a fight and gladly like almost all of the games. I even love 90% of Fallout 4. It's just it feels like a much more superficial and shallow game than its immediate Bethesda predecessor. Which is hard to discuss as the hate on for Fallout 3 is immense here.

Which, hey, is a opinion which people have their reasons for.

hag said:
i enjoy Bethesda's games on a superficial level, but i will not say they are quality games, nor an example of rich storytelling. Skyrim is fun to waste time on, but the characters are about as three-dimensional as a cardboard cutout, among many other flaws. for someone who likes to analyze media, there's not much to dig your heels into. there's no emotionally moving plots, no ethical dilemmas, no multifaceted characters. the saying "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" truly applies here. also, i feel that Bethesda has a chronic habit of wasting potential, which i find utterly frustrating. i won't get into specifics, but see Kellogg, or Miraak for good examples.
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i disgaree about Skyrim and Fallout 3. Not so much Fallout 4. Bethesda can write like gangbusters but the unevenness of it is kind of a roller-coaster. For example, Wolfenstein: The New Order is a more intelligent game than it has any right to be. It has quiet moments like talking about continuity of consciousness.



I just wish they'd bring their A game. Which they didn't in Fallout 4, I think.

Dr Fallout said:
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Well, in strict literal terms, the Enclave is a collection of ultrajingoistic militant war mongers who favor a merging of the nation-state with corporations in order to benefit the state as well as the military. In a very literal sense, they're National Socialists and fascists.

Racial idealogy doesn't seem to enter the place until Post-War, however.
 
CT Phipps said:
Well, in strict literal terms, the Enclave is a collection of ultrajingoistic militant war mongers who favor a merging of the nation-state with corporations in order to benefit the state as well as the military. In a very literal sense, they're fascists.

Racial idealogy doesn't seem to enter the place until Post-War, however.
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Fixed. There's nothing nazi-like about them.
 
CT Phipps said:
the Enclave ruled the USA and the Enclave is Nazis.
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The Enclave are Nazi expies, not Nazis precisely and they did not completely rule the USA, they were a secret cabal within the government that had power and influence. There is a distinction...

CT Phipps said:
For example, Wolfenstein: The New Order is a more intelligent game than it has any right to be. It has quiet moments like talking about continuity of consciousness.
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Wolfenstein was made by id Software, not Bethesda. Bethesda merely published the game. Another important distinction.
 
CerberusGate said:
The Enclave are Nazi expies, not Nazis precisely and they did not completely rule the USA, they were a secret cabal within the government that had power and influence. There is a distinction...
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Sure. I honestly think of the Enclave as a combination of America's worst elements, the Nazis, and the Brotherhood of Steel.

I love them as vlillains and would love to see more characters from them, even if they should have all died on Poseidon Oil Rig but the people at Navarro who wouldn't include any of the Enclave's families or the other people who might theoretically repopulate the organization.

I always wondered if they wore Power Armor out of a fear, potentially, of being infected by the Outside WorldTM.

Part of the satire of the Enclave is they claim to be the true United States government but they're just however many thousands of people who live on an oil rig.
 
CT Phipps said:
How do you figure?
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They don't have an irrational hatred of Black people, Jews and Slavs.

The brotherhood was isolationist but allowed outside recruitment and traded with the Hub for food and supplies. They're purpose was also to safekeep technology until all humans were ready for it.
 
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