Defining (The) Fallout(s): Part 2

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
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Mismatch has published part 2 of his Defining (The) Fallout(s) editorial:<blockquote>The Fallout setting is at first glance rather straightforward, and yet it is much more complex than one would think. One part fifties style retro, one part Max Max fashioned post apocalypse, and one part 50's science fiction.

From this mix, something arises. A world harsh and desolate, an "It's every man for himself" mentality only previously seen in old western flicks, and a boy and his dog. By mixing genres which at first glance may seem to clash, Interplay somehow managed to produce a world filled with uncertainty and fear. Even as you entered a town you were on your toes since some local gunslinger was probable to start a mess.

This insecurity somehow made security feel more secure. Regardless of how you felt about they treat mutants and ghouls at Vault City, I know that you, at some point, glanced at the grass and dreamt of just sitting down. You were more than willing to trade freedom for a sense of security and calm. No matter how short the moment was, I'm rather sure it was there.

(...)

The Fallout's story isn't merely a story of violence in a radiated wasteland. It is a story of belonging, of fear of the unknown and intolerance, of how isolation breeds suspicion and one mans quest to once and for all end these fears, end the suspicion, the hate and the intolerance(FO1) but in the end he manages to increase it and gives birth to an attempt to cleanse the world of anyone who is not genetically a human(FO2).

It is the story of Richard Grey.

And hopefully the developers of future Fallout games have understood this.

It is entirely possible that this is why FO has such a high degree of freedom, because the game is not about the player, so controlling him and pushing him in certain directions is not really needed.</blockquote>Link: Defining (The) Fallout(s): Part 2 on DaC
 
Mismatch said:
The Fallout's story /../ is the story of Richard Grey.

/../ the game is not about the player, so controlling him and pushing him in certain directions is not really needed.

Er, no. Fail.
 
'Max Max'? Tom Tom!

Err...other than that, this a pretty poor conclusion.


Mismatch said:
It is the story of Richard Grey.


And hopefully the developers of future Fallout games have understood this.

It is entirely possible that this is why FO has such a high degree of freedom, because the game is not about the player, so controlling him and pushing him in certain directions is not really needed.
Teh boggle.
I'm trying to wrap my head around how Mismatch completely missed the point of design here. The game is about *player* choices and consequences, as affirmed multiple times by the developers. This means that the story is, for a large part, defined by the player's actions.

I for one more or less pissed myself with pleasure when the enclave showed up in Gecko (FO2) after I had fooled around with their network.
Err....they didn't actually show up in Gecko if you talked to them over the Gecko powerplant computer.
The town killer accidents that could happen. A stray bullet here and there caused an entire town/settlement to turn against you and, being a 'tuff guy', you don't back down and thus you end up having to kill everyone. Fun, but sort of a faulty reaction in my opinion. It should be said though that this reaction probably was the result of a bad factions system rather than bad game design.
...
Someone murders one of the town members, and the town members are not supposed to do anything here? Remember that townspeople can't see whether a bullet was meant or not.

Maybe a trial of sorts should've been implemented, but this is no bug.

Also, freedom, non-linearity and open-endedness are all intertwined.

We don't know whether GURPS would have worked with Fallout, but we do know that S.P.E.C.I.A.L does. And it works well indeed. What SPECIAL did, and manged to do in a most satisfying fashion was brunging pen and paper into the computer.
NOSE! SPECIAL was designed for PC, so has nothiiiiiiing to do with PnP!!!111</TESer>


PS: Someone should've proofread that piece before it got published.

PPS: "Athabaska Dick"?
 
Athabaska Dick is a guy in Redding. The one who rants for a long time and feels like an unfinished NPC somehow. Link

Seeing Grey as the central figure is interesting, but it kind of misses the whole story structure.

After all, not Grey but FEV is the McGuffin of both Fallout 1/2's overarching storyline (the Fed-Ex subplots have their own McGuffins).

Grey is still the most interesting character in the games (him and Harold), but the game isn't *about* him. *His* decisions have been made, *his* history is nearing its end (either in victory or loss) at the start of Fallout 1, the Vault Dweller is there to change it, which makes him the focal point of the story, as Sander said.

Maybe a trial of sorts should've been implemented, but this is no bug.

No, but it is bad, or rather limited, design. Neither Fallout 1 nor 2 handled town hostility properly. One of the game's flaws.
 
Kharn said:
Seeing Grey as the central figure is interesting, but it kind of misses the whole story structure.

After all, not Grey but FEV is the McGuffin of both Fallout 1/2's overarching storyline (the Fed-Ex subplots have their own McGuffins).

Grey is still the most interesting character in the games (him and Harold), but the game isn't *about* him.

I think the guy's point isn't that the game is about Grey, but the story is. In terms of game mechanics the broad range of choices is what makes Fallout attractive, in terms of story it's Grey whose footsteps you are walking in as it were as you progress that's the focal point. Put the story of the vaultdweller (after you finish the game) next to Grey and the first seems a convoluted mess of incoherent occurences.

Which isn't a problem because that's what's inherent to the game mechanics: whereas in linear gaming the player himself is the most fleshed out storywise, non-linear pc's are basically tabula rasas and the quality of the story begins to depend on other characters.

Failure to make this (background) story work results in sandbox gaming, or non-linear gaming gone bad which seems to be Bethesda's forte.
 
""... The Horror, The Horror ... ""

""... The Horror, The Horror ... ""




Nice to see the attention given the back story. Richard Grey and Harold get their day.

Kharn:
... Grey is still the most interesting character in the games (him and Harold), but the game isn't *about* him. *His* decisions have been made, *his* history is nearing its end (either in victory or loss) at the start of Fallout 1, the Vault Dweller is there to change it, which makes him the focal point of the story, as Sander said. ...


The rise and fall (splash) of Richard Grey has a J. Conrad twist.


Conrad's "'Heart Of Darkness"" had the narrator's discovery of the 'hero' [who has made all ""his''' decisions''] the 'hero' gone native, gone wild, become a shock ending for that time. Conrad's story stopped at the realization.

More apt parallel comparison might be "'Heart Of Darkness"" as viewed in ""Apocalypse Now"".
That narrator - protagonist is on a mission which fundamentally changes over time.
''The End'' is not to end ''The Horror'' [of the Vietnam War], too big for one mentally scarred, ex innocent,
but to end the suffering of a ex hero gone rogue killer.

" " ... Cmon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin a blue rock
On a blue bus ..." "

Nice to see attention go beyond the that blue jump suited gopher's Fed Ex grindings, and how some text back story built up an epic of ascending hero's journey's.


..............

""... The Horror, The Horror ... "" Part 2


Oh, back story and text, in this Nex Gen spirit of the moment , aren't back story and text, unsellable, a.k.a. ""dead"' too.

Nex Gen zeitgeist, that First Person view that MUST BE REAL because it's just like TV.
The friendly fire on bystanders and the retaliation by the local posse [that's on the nightly news], can't be REAL enough for the Nex Gen.
Ballistic consequences muddy the immersion.
TV, that lowest of the common rationalizations for the highest return in denominations.
What won't sell, fades away.

Glanced at a few MS Xbox mag's and somewhere in all that pimped out, pumped up thrill of the console wars is an attitude that mice, keyboards, and - text - are "dead''.
I presume that all magazine content is edited, so I presume that "'reading teh hard"' is an editorial stance for these glossy game ad vehicles.
Ironic that by the time Microsoft is the only PC OS and the only game hardware purveyor, no one will be reading / buying magazines, and the sales for MS Office will be slumping.

No reading, no writing, no competition, a - word 'perfect' - win win for .....

yet another 'new' dark age awaits.




4too
 
Some good (and obvious) points were made, some bad comments were also. Still, the article wasn't so bad but it should also say about the Fallout humour! I want Beth to read somewhere about it.

I'm playing FO2 again lately and I didn't remember most of the jokes so I can get them again :D (I love what Harold says about his tree, or everything about the sergant in Navarro :D) I am really horrified since when Beth said about terminator-style humour in FO3 ;/
 
Yeah, the humour they said they're going for isn't what made fallout. Bethesda is looking more towards action movie comedy, rather than dark humour judging by what they've said.
 
Kharn said:
Grey is still the most interesting character in the games (him and Harold), but the game isn't *about* him. *His* decisions have been made, *his* history is nearing its end (either in victory or loss) at the start of Fallout 1, the Vault Dweller is there to change it, which makes him the focal point of the story, as Sander said.
More along the lines of loss or a defeat. The Vault Dweller is there to persuade the Master to win by surrendering to his own convictions.

And by the way, there seems to be a huge difference of opinion in the world view, between most posters here, and Mismatch.
"It's about what I do to the world."
"No, it isn't, it's about what the world does to you."
But in the end, at least some of you must admit that you aren't here cause you chose to make a whole new Fallout community. But you are here cause you found a reference to it in a fallout fag, paper or what ever. So in a way, you were forced. :twisted:
 
Re: ""... The Horror, The Horror ... ""

4too said:
More apt parallel comparison might be "'Heart Of Darkness"" as viewed in ""Apocalypse Now"".
That narrator - protagonist is on a mission which fundamentally changes over time.
''The End'' is not to end ''The Horror'' [of the Vietnam War], too big for one mentally scarred, ex innocent,
but to end the suffering of a ex hero gone rogue killer.

Of course, but while Apocalypse Now could be said to be about Colonel Kurtz, the actual plot moves with Captain Willard, not Kurtz.

Actually, come to think of it, the comparison is pretty apt. Not just because Apocalypse Now is one of the best combinations of cinematography and text in cinematic history, but because Kurtz is so much more interesting than Willard.

Without Kurtz, the whole story wouldn't happen, but without Willard, the whole story wouldn't change. That's pretty much the same way the Vault Dweller and the Master relate.

4too said:
Oh, back story and text, in this Nex Gen spirit of the moment , aren't back story and text, unsellable, a.k.a. ""dead"' too.

Yip. It's too expensive to hire a voice actor to read a long back story.

But remember, a lot of Fallout's story-telling strengths lay in what was implied rather than what was said. The results of Grey's vision, in particular the hallway you had to travel through to reach him, where more telling than most of Lou Tenant's talking.

Then again, to truely understand it, you really needed to couple all info from Harold, Vree, Lou Tenant and the Master. It was an awesome experience to pull all those threads together and understand his story.

4too said:
Ironic that by the time Microsoft is the only PC OS and the only game hardware purveyor, no one will be reading / buying magazines, and the sales for MS Office will be slumping.

No reading, no writing, no competition, a - word 'perfect' - win win for .....

Heh, I've always said 1984's predictions are constantly set to become reality, but thanks to the media, not any government.

That said, don't be so bleak, man.
 
Re: ""... The Horror, The Horror ... ""

Kharn said:
...while Apocalypse Now could be said to be about Colonel Kurtz, the actual plot moves with Captain Willard, not Kurtz.

Actually, come to think of it, the comparison is pretty apt. Not just because Apocalypse Now is one of the best combinations of cinematography and text in cinematic history, but because Kurtz is so much more interesting than Willard.

Without Kurtz, the whole story wouldn't happen, but without Willard, the whole story wouldn't change. That's pretty much the same way the Vault Dweller and the Master relate.

I'm sure that there is enough milage in this comparison for a fairly major essay.

It is difficult to say whose story is really contained in Apocalypse Now and Heart of Darkness, because we actually learn very little about the supposed villain of either piece, yet their fall is absolutely integral. Here's my opinion. In both Apocalypse Now and Heart of Darkness the journeys of Willard and Marlow are of more significance than their final encounter with Kurtz. They both appear to be journeying to the very epicentre of evil, but actually discover an impotent lunatic at the eye of the storm.

Kurtz is the initial catalyst for events, but it is the mindless hostility of the environment and the inherent darkness in the hearts of other men which actually allows the madness to proliferate. Kurtz is much more dangerous, important, and evil as a phantom in Willard/Marlow's world than as a person (who is ultimately trapped and dying as a recluse). His malign influence pervades, but his legend has become much more important than the man himself as his physical potency fails. Perhaps the real star of the story is not to be found in the narrative itself, but in setting; Kurtz is part of the darkness, but much more so is the place and moral context that allows such a place to exist. This would be where Fallout finds its deepest parallel.

There is also an interesting contrast between Apocalypse Now/Heart of Darkness and Fallout. Willard/Marlow are dispatched by tyrants of one kind to catch a tyrant of another. In that respect, the Vault Dweller is altogether more innocent, and therefore susceptible to corruption, than either of those characters. Willard and Marlow knew their paymasters but had made a moral distinction between those people and Kurtz. The Vault Dweller emerges from a completely isolated environment, and as such is largely morally naive with respect to the rest of the world - from that point any moral path, the taking of any side over another, represents corruption of purity. This lies at the heart of the moral ambiguity that makes Fallout so interesting.

>Pretentious rambling complete... initiating pseudo-intellectuality purge...<
 
Hovercar Madness said:
I think the guy's point isn't that the game is about Grey, but the story is. In terms of game mechanics the broad range of choices is what makes Fallout attractive, in terms of story it's Grey whose footsteps you are walking in as it were as you progress that's the focal point.

If Fallout is the story of Richard Grey, then Baldur's Gate II is the story of Jon Irenicus, Neverwinter Nights is the story of Aribeth, and System Shock is (naturally) the story of SHODAN. And that may be so, but then that's not what sets Fallout apart, not what you have to "get" about Fallout. What's special about Fallout is the way the backstory (of the Master) and the story (of the Vault Dweller) can be almost completely disassociated. The Master has zero guaranteed screen time, unless you count Ron Perlman saying that his forces were driven east after the game ends. And this is possible because the game devotes itself entirely to following the exploits of the Vault Dweller, whatever they are and are not.

Jarno Mikkola said:
And by the way, there seems to be a huge difference of opinion in the world view, between most posters here, and Mismatch.
"It's about what I do to the world."
"No, it isn't, it's about what the world does to you."

See above; what sets Fallout apart from other games is its devotion to the former. In a game like Torment, you spend a lot of time dealing with and reacting to things that were done to you rather than things you (the player) do to others. There are heaps of emotional cues that are effectively forced onto you. Fallout leaves all that out.
 
If anyone knows how to define Fallout, it would be you Per. In fact, it should be you.
Hell, when I read your walkthroughs the first time through without knowing who you were, I pretty much assumed that you knew every single detail that a human being can learn about Fallout and had now gone to live under a rock or something. :lol:

So yeah, I highly commend you to write the article that defines Fallout.. for us. Please. :D
 
Per said:
If Fallout is the story of Richard Grey, then Baldur's Gate II is the story of Jon Irenicus, Neverwinter Nights is the story of Aribeth, and System Shock is (naturally) the story of SHODAN.

I don't get how the fact that in Fallout the most interesting story element is the "end-boss" makes that applicable to cRPG's in general.

And that may be so, but then that's not what sets Fallout apart, not what you have to "get" about Fallout. What's special about Fallout is the way the backstory (of the Master) and the story (of the Vault Dweller) can be almost completely disassociated. The Master has zero guaranteed screen time, unless you count Ron Perlman saying that his forces were driven east after the game ends. And this is possible because the game devotes itself entirely to following the exploits of the Vault Dweller, whatever they are and are not.

Well, obviously any game is about the player, but setting aside the variations allowed by non-linearity the story of some guy searching for a waterchip, attacking a mutant base and blowing up a cathedral is far less interesting than the Master backstory. And in my view it's the richness of this backstory (or, broader, the general ambiance it creates along with the design) is what sets Fallout aside from other cRPGs.

But what I still don't get is how the fact that you can disassociate the story from its most interesting features what makes Fallout so special?
 
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