...do you really want to be able to kill children

xdarkyrex said:
On another note, I don't blame Bethsoft, I blame censorship committees.
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On another note, I don't blame censorship committees, I blame those who give free reign to censorship committees.
 
darky, it's really sweet for you for trying to protect bethesda and retarded argument "killable kids not allowed, it isn't 1997" but the fact is that there was a game in 2003 that had killable kids and no one made a big fuss about it.
Therefore, 'argument' "it isn't 1997" is retarded.

Or maybe bethesda should try to go under radar too?
 
xdarkyrex said:
You think that if someone brought it to Hillary's attention she wouldn't try to get it removed from shelves, even 4 years later?

I think it just went under the radar for the people that hate this stuff.

Or maybe it was the lack of gratuitous gore to accompany it?

I honestly hope that Bethsoft will at least TRY it before they give into the ESRB fear.
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Invisible War was released on the PC and Xbox. It was fairly prominent during it's release due to being the sequel to Deus Ex.
It had (and I'm repeating this for the eleven billionth time) children that you could shoot in the head, burn to death with a flamethrower, shoot with a dart weapon that'd make them spontaneously combust, splatter with a rocket launcher, chase and terrorise them. I mean, they'll run away and cower in corners. Did I mention that these children are all in what's supposed to be an ultra safe school? You can kill them when they're in class.
Oh yeah, and the headmaster's a psycho who wants them all dead anyway.

All that, and it got an M rating.
 
Vault 69er said:
xdarkyrex said:
You think that if someone brought it to Hillary's attention she wouldn't try to get it removed from shelves, even 4 years later?

I think it just went under the radar for the people that hate this stuff.

Or maybe it was the lack of gratuitous gore to accompany it?

I honestly hope that Bethsoft will at least TRY it before they give into the ESRB fear.
Click to expand...

Invisible War was released on the PC and Xbox. It was fairly prominent during it's release due to being the sequel to Deus Ex.
It had (and I'm repeating this for the eleven billionth time) children that you could shoot in the head, burn to death with a flamethrower, shoot with a dart weapon that'd make them spontaneously combust, splatter with a rocket launcher, chase and terrorise them. I mean, they'll run away and cower in corners. Did I mention that these children are all in what's supposed to be an ultra safe school? You can kill them when they're in class.
Oh yeah, and the headmaster's a psycho who wants them all dead anyway.

All that, and it got an M rating.
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I never bothered killing the kids, didn't even know you could until I heard it on NMA. If you google Deus Ex 2 and killable children, you don't get a lot of info. But see, just recently in the past couple of years is when all this real hardcore censorship in the US has been getting started, it IS fairly new. I do remember that killing in that game wasn't very violent at all though. No blood and gore. Terribly unsatisfying to hit someone with a sword and just have them fall over like you were using a baseball bat. In Fallout 3, I do believe that killing will be much more violent than in Deus Ex 2.


Oh and black, I wasn't defending the "It's not 1997" argument, because back then you could get away with anything. But since then the grip has been gradually tightening. I just hope that if they do keep tightening their grip, the public will lash out in defense like a cornered animal. Times change, and not always for the better. Ever since the GTA Hot Coffee incident, thinks have been getting heated.


Sorrow... I agree :?
 
Well, the funny things is- the first time I played Deus Ex and met some kid, I didn't even 'check' if he was killable or not.
Conclusion?
Killable kids in a game don't mean that everyone will run around killing them.
 
Black said:
Well, the funny things is- the first time I played Deus Ex and met some kid, I didn't even 'check' if he was killable or not.
Conclusion?
Killable kids in a game don't mean that everyone will run around killing them.
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Agreed.

I'm about as anti-censorship as one can be, I even have disputes with some of the laws regarding intellectual property because I think it borderlines on infringing the spread of information.

To be honest, I'm hoping I just won't notice the kid in god-mode, since I rarely kill kids except as a joke or revenge against a pick pocketer or a rock throwing little bastard.

Oh and hey black I think I edited my last post while you were responding to it.
 
Why do you people keep claiming 'it isn't 1997' as if the exact same problem didn't exist back then? The reason Fallout got censored in Europe was because otherwise it would offend people and probably drop sales. It's the exact same reason why killable children would be a problem now, or in 2003. The situation really is *not* any different.
 
Oh and black, I wasn't defending the "It's not 1997" argument, because back then you could get away with anything. But since then the grip has been gradually tightening. I just hope that if they do keep tightening their grip, the public will lash out in defense like a cornered animal. Times change, and not always for the better. Ever since the GTA Hot Coffee incident, thinks have been getting heated.
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Hmm...
1997- Postal - Mature
2003- Postal 2 - Mature

Of course lots of controversy, but it seems that Postal 2 still (after 6 years) managed to get away with getting postal.
It feels like people don't mind blood everywhere but mind sex in games.
 
xdarkyrex said:
Sorrow... I agree :?
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I've read some anti-game sites and there are two thing that a few people realise - these guys are a minority and they have a plan.
Their end goal is to get rid of all violence from all the media except the Bible and army recruiting material.
That's not something that majority of people would accept.
The problem is that they are organised, active and fanatically dedicated to their cause, while sensible people are passive, disorganised and opposed to taking action.
 
Sorrow said:
xdarkyrex said:
Sorrow... I agree :?
Click to expand...
I've read some anti-game sites and there are two thing that a few people realise - these guys are a minority and they have a plan.
Their end goal is to get rid of all violence from all the media except the Bible and army recruiting material.
That's not something that majority of people would accept.
The problem is that they are organised, active and fanatically dedicated to their cause, while sensible people are passive, disorganised and opposed to taking action.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of special interests, where corporations and fanatics rule the lobbying scene, the highest bidder gets the senator of his choosing like it's an auction, and gerrymandering keeps the same congressman in power.
 
Too bad that the gaming scene have decided to become a loser in that world...
 
It's not just about being unable to kill children, it's more of a principle thing, you know, being "pollitically correct" and all that bullshit.
 
The only unkillable characters in BG were those who were needed for their linear plot.
 
for some reason that "revolution" smiley to me looks like a commie panicking that his country fell apart.

to answer the topic - I wouldnt even notice if they were missing. I've never intentionally killed a kid in fallout2. No not because I kill them in real life but just its not for me. Also I don't think Postal 2 is on Xbox360

also I am more interested in the things fallout2 didn't do properly. One thing for example is the ability to give random npc's some money. Something my friend was upset he couldn't do last weekend during his first foray into fallout and now I am upset I can't either.

edit: well im upset but it is useless. a much better example, is why i cant use a gun as a melee weapon when it is out of ammo.
 
Do you really want to kill children?

Personally no, not at all.

But my FICTIONAL character that I am ROLE playing in a FICTIONAL world might have reason to.

Who wants to be the diet coke of evil?
 
Well, Todd might have some troubles distinguishing real life from fiction, what with their semi-sentient NPCs and all. :roll:
 
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