Drug Use

[Azael]

I drink, quite often get really pissed, but that's it. I have smoked marijuana, but that's not anything I do often, almost a year since the last time I did it. I stay the hell away from stuff like shrooms, exstacy and LSD, I just don't like the odds. Same thing with cocaine and heroine. I don't drink coffee and the only tobacco I smoke is the occassional Cuban Cigar.

 

[Sander]

Katja:

The fact remains that weed is not physiologically addictive, unlike caffeine, MDMA, tabacco and other substances. This means that it's addictive due to it's psychological effect, making it much more of a choice of addiction, instead of a bodily addiction.
This also means that it's addictive on the same level as candy.

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

This also means that it's addictive on the same level as candy.

That doesn't make it any less serious. There are a lot of people, especially in the US who are obese. These people have a problem saying no to food and it has major effects on their health.

 

[Sander]

That doesn't make it any less serious. There are a lot of people, especially in the US who are obese. These people have a problem saying no to food and it has major effects on their health.

And the difference here is that marijuana is harmless.

Tada! Candy is worse than marijuana. Now why is candy not banned?

 

[Malky]

And the difference here is that marijuana is harmless.

Tell that to the 4 year old kid that just got hit by a car, because the driver was smoking pot.

 

[megatron]

If the driver had been eating candy it would have been an equal sticky situation.

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

I thought pot had the same effects on you respiratory system as cigaretts. Also some could attribute pot to people's bad eating habits (i.e. eating a whole bag of chips at 2AM).

 

[King of Creation]

And the difference here is that marijuana is harmless.

Tell that to the 4 year old kid that just got hit by a car, because the driver was smoking pot.

Who smokes pot when they're driving a car?!? That's just plain unrealistic. Normal people don't do that. Its like the same thing as like taking swigs of 151 while driving. No one does that! And by no one, i mean normal people. Not freaks of nature who actually do that.

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

you ever hear of 'clam baking'? There are a lot of people who drive while high.

 

[Katja]

And the difference here is that marijuana is harmless.

Nope. Studies are finding that people who smoke marijuana excessively are at risk for neurobiological problems.
The rest is unclear and debatable, but there are studies that have found the following: permanant short term memory impairment, amotivational syndrome, self-esteem problems, and troubles concentrating. So I am not going to support these points, simply because studies are contradictory in these areas.

But lung cancer is the worst, and most well known possible outcome. Researchers have found that "marijuana may contain just as many carcinogens as tobacco" (Durand & Barlow, 2003).

And although you can get around it (by ingesting it instead), many people don't bother.

 

[Katja]

I'm sorry for posting twice in a row but had to reply:

Who smokes pot when they're driving a car?!? That's just plain unrealistic. Normal people don't do that. Its like the same thing as like taking swigs of 151 while driving. No one does that! And by no one, i mean normal people. Not freaks of nature who actually do that.

Unrealistic? I live in pot capital of Canada, and it's not unrealistic here. I know, personally, a few people that drive while smoking pot (not friends with them, mind you, but they're in the general social group).

Even recent public advertisements are now informing people about marijuana and driving - because many adolescents think that driving impairment is only caused by alcohol.

People *do* drive while smoking pot. I'm surprised more people don't get killed.

 

[megatron]

I don't think related subjects should be taken into account. Everything that happens will have some sort of reaction, that's how things happen.

Though people still get killed by sober drivers. I guess everyone should drive while on coke to lower accidents?

 

[Ozrat]

*sigh*

You people didn't look at the links I gave you? I'm insulted!

And the difference here is that marijuana is harmless.

Tell that to the 4 year old kid that just got hit by a car, because the driver was smoking pot.

cars... weed... 'clam baking'... deaths...

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_faq1.shtm

19) Doesn't marijuana cause a lot of automobile accidents?
Not really. The marijuana using public has the same or lower rate of automobile accidents as the general public. Studies of marijuana smoking while driving showed that it does affect reaction time, but not nearly as much as alcohol. Also, those who drive `stoned' have been shown to be less foolish on the road (they demonstrate `increased risk aversion'.) Recent studies have emphasized that alcohol is the major problem on our highways, and that illicit drugs do not even come close to being as dangerous.
As funny as it may seem, you may be safer driving `stoned', as long as you aren't `totally blasted' and seeing things -- but few users are irresponsible enough to drive in this state of mind, anyway. Still, many people have reported making mistakes while driving because they were stoned.

There are those who think that marijuana is a major problem on the streets, because of a newspaper article or news story which they have seen which said a large number of people who were killed in driving accidents tested postive for marijuana use. For various reasons, these studies are not reliable:


Some studies use drug tests which can only tell whether a person has used marijuana in the last month.
Some studies were done near colleges or other areas where drinking, marijuana use, and accidents are all very high, and they did not correct for age or alcohol use.
In many of the studies there were more stoned drivers killed -- but it was not their fault, and when the police ``culpability scores'' were factored in marijuana was not to blame for the accidents.

Who smokes pot when they're driving a car?!? That's just plain unrealistic. Normal people don't do that. Its like the same thing as like taking swigs of 151 while driving. No one does that! And by no one, i mean normal people. Not freaks of nature who actually do that.

I do on occassion, for one... And the effects of marijuana do not affect your physical reactions/motor skills like alcohol does.


Katja, I'm afraid that I highly disagree with a few things you said about the effects of marijuana. As I posted from the FAQ on the previous page, there are no studies out there that can accurately place marijuana responsible for memory loss, demotivation, ect. Hell, even the US Military says so. If anything, marijuana only magnifies neurological problems that already existed.

As for marijuana causing as much cancer as tobacco:

17) Isn't smoking marijuana worse for you than smoking cigarettes?
There are many reasons why it is not. You may have heard that ``one joint is equal to ten cigarrettes'' but this is exagerrated and misleading. Marijuana does contain more tar than tobacco -- but low tar cigarettes cause just as much cancer, so what is that supposed to mean? Scientists have shown that smoking any plant is bad for your lungs, because it increases the number of `lesions' in your small airways. This usually does not threaten your life, but there is a chance it will lead to infections. Marijuana users who are worried about this can find less harmful ways of taking marijuana like eating or vaporizing. (Be careful -- marijuana is safe to eat -- but tobacco is not, you might overdose!) Marijuana does not seem to cause cancer the way tobacco does, though.
Here is a list of interesting facts about marijuana smoking and tobacco smoking:

• Marijuana smokers generally don't chain smoke, and so they smoke less. (Marijuana is not physically addictive like tobacco.) The more potent marijuana is, the less a smoker will use at a time.
  
  Tobacco contains nicotine, and marijuana doesn't. Nicotine may harden the arteries and may be responsible for much of the heart disease caused by tobacco. New research has found that it may also cause a lot of the cancer in tobacco smokers and people who live or work where tobacco is smoked. This is because it breaks down into a cancer causing chemical called `N Nitrosamine' when it is burned (and maybe even while it is inside the body as well.)
  
  Marijuana contains THC. THC is a bronchial dilator, which means it works like a cough drop and opens up your lungs, which aids clearance of smoke and dirt. Nicotine does just the opposite; it makes your lungs bunch up and makes it harder to cough anything up.
  
  There are benefits from marijuana (besides bronchial dilation) that you don't get from tobacco. Mainly, marijuana makes you relax, which improves your health and well-being.
  
  Scientists do not really know what it is that causes malignant lung cancer in tobacco. Many think it may be a substance known as Lead 210. Of course, there are many other theories as to what does cause cancer, but if this is true, it is easy to see why NO CASE OF LUNG CANCER RESULTING FROM MARIJUANA USE ALONE HAS EVER BEEN DOCUMENTED, because tobacco contains much more of this substance than marijuana.
  
  Marijuana laws make it harder to use marijuana without damaging your body. Water-pipes are illegal in many states. Filtered cigarettes, vaporizers, and inhalers have to be mass produced, which is hard to arrange `underground.' People don't eat marijuana often because you need more to get as high that way, and it isn't cheap or easy to get (which is the reason why some people will stoop to smoking leaves.) This may sound funny to you -- but the more legal marijuana gets, the safer it is.

It is pretty obvious to users that marijuana prohibition laws are not ``for their own good.'' In addition to the above, legal marijuana would be clean and free from adulturants. Some people add other drugs to marijuana before they sell it. Some people spray room freshener on it or soak in in chemicals like formaldehyde! A lot of the marijuana is grown outdoors, where it may be sprayed with pesticides or contaminated with dangerous fungi. If the government really cared about our health, they would form an agency which would make sure only quality marijuana was sold. This would be cheaper than keeping it illegal, and it would keep people from getting hurt and going to the emergency room.

I'm more than happy to debate about this subject, as you can see, because of all the research I've done on it. Please, discuss!

 

[megatron]

It's not really research though, just copy and pasting from erowid. SAY IT FROM THA HEART MAN!

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

The effects of Marijuana and driving are going to be different for every person - same as alcohol (depending on #of drinks, bodyweight, and tolerance). I don't like to drive when I've been drinking but i trust myself and a few of my friends if they say they are ok to drive. Unfortunately for potheads just having a small amount of weed in your system (even if you smoked hours ago) it's grounds for extreme DUI.


P.S. I'm not going to butt heads on the studies done on the effects of Marijuana, but it seems to me that the majority of those studies are a little biased.

 

[King of Creation]

Studies are finding that people who smoke marijuana excessively are at risk for neurobiological problems.
The rest is unclear and debatable, but there are studies that have found the following: permanant short term memory impairment,

There are no permanent memory impairments. When you smoke weed, sometimes, if you smoke a lot of weed, you'll be talking about something, but then the next minute forget what you're talking about, just cause you don't care anymore, and then start laughing for a while. But your short term memory is definitly not messed up permanently. If it was, I would have forgotten what I was doing by now.
Plus, blackout periods (if you could call it that) like that are far more common with alcohol.

 

[Katja]

Ozrat, your site is extremely biased. It's explaining why drugs aren't bad - and on other parts of the site, explains how to get out of drug tests and how long you should obstain from drugs before one.

How anyone can say it can't cause lung cancer is beyond me. If you are inhaling smoke into your lungs several times a day, how could there *not* be an effect?

Here's a pro-marijuana site that actually states both sides of the story:http://www.cannabisnews.com

and, about the "it doesn't impair driving" debate:
http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/12/thread12860.shtml

Like alcohol, marijuana impairs the central nervous system. "Cognitive impairment associated with acutely administered marijuana limits the activities that people would be able to do safely and productively. For example, no one under the influence of marijuana or THC should drive a vehicle or operate potentially dangerous equipment." The typical THC dose results in a level of impairment just slightly less than an alcohol blood level of 0.08 percent. If current patterns of alcohol use and drunk driving are indicators of human behavior, legalized marijuana will lead to hundreds of secondary deaths each year.

This site has a ton of studies coming from both sides of the spectrum - it also lists research studies that claim that it has no affect on perception.

Anyways, I think I've said all I can say - either side of the debate can be taken from the site I just mentioned. I'm not going to keep pulling things out of Psychology and other sites, but the evidence is there... for both arguments.

And I do realize that the faq on Ozrat's site is also included on this site, but I focus on the news articles. The Search function is great for that. For instance, if you want to see what the stance is on, say, reaction time, just search it and it will come up with reports.

Which is why I'm ending my part of the debate here. It will go on forever.

 

[King of Creation]

Hmmm....i noticed Katja mentioned ingesting weed instead of smoking it. How does that work? Does it get you high in the same amount of time and for as long?

 

[Katja]

Hmmm....i noticed Katja mentioned ingesting weed instead of smoking it. How does that work? Does it get you high in the same amount of time and for as long?

It takes a little while, but it has a stronger effect. There are a ton of recipes for marijuana - the most well known being "pot brownies". But it's not as safe because a lot of people don't know what they're doing

Eating marijuana has a different effect than smoking it. It not only takes longer before the feeling starts, but it stays longer as well. This makes it more difficult to dosage the stuff. It's easy to get too much of THC in your blood which can give you a very good trip or a very bad trip. You wouldn't be the first one ending up in the hospital.

More info if you do google searches.

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

Who smokes pot when they're driving a car?!? That's just plain unrealistic.

i noticed Katja mentioned ingesting weed instead of smoking it. How does that work?

Jesus man... do you smoke pot? I don't even smoke and i know this stuff.