Drugs-Specifically XTC

[Sander]

Last night I saw a very interesting documentary on the Discovery Channel. It was about someone suffering from severe Parkinson's disease.

At the moment the only treatment for Parkinson's disease is L-Dopa, which adds to the levels of Dopamine in your body, because tha level is greatly decreased due to Parkinson's, causing incredible stiffness of the joints.
L-Dopa, sadly, has the side-effect of Dyskinesia: involuntary movement. Although the L-Dopa makes you a lot more mobile, the dyskinesia it induces could cause your death.
The documentary was about a man who was taking L-Dopa for Parkinson's, but who had, when he went out clubbing on a night, also taken XTC in combination with it. When he had done that, he could move even better, and there was very little dyskinesia.
After several tests, it now appears that XTC somehow manages to bypass the Dopamine in the brains, cutting it's own path. This gets rid of the dyskinesia, and makes movements go more smoothly.
(This was, by the way, in the UK, where XTC is illegal(as it is in most(if not all) countries)

Now, what if doctors cannot find a way to produce the same benficial effects of XTC, without getting rid of all the bad effects of XTC(the reason it is banned)(ironically, according to all the sources I could find, XTC can actually induce Parkinson's or make it worse)??
Would you support the legalisation of XTC, would you support the legalisation of the use of XTC for medicinal purposes, or would you oppose it?

 

[Elissar]

I would remain neutral.

 

[Daemon Spawn]

Drugs are for weaklings. Ban the shit!

 

[Ozrat]

At the moment the only treatment for Parkinson's disease is L-Dopa, which adds to the levels of Dopamine in your body, because tha level is greatly decreased due to Parkinson's, causing incredible stiffness of the joints.
L-Dopa, sadly, has the side-effect of Dyskinesia: involuntary movement. Although the L-Dopa makes you a lot more mobile, the dyskinesia it induces could cause your death.

My father has an advanced state of Parkinsons, so I'm familiar with the condition.

And you're wrong. There is more than just one treatment for it.

Dad has been on and off of a plethora of medications for the condition since he was diagnosed with it a little over a decade ago. He's also had brain surgery to remove a part of the brain that seemed to be causing the trouble. The surgery help... for a couple of years before it came back just as strong as before.

I've seen him when his medications are wearing off. Various body parts will tremor involuntarily, such as a hand constantly shaking. Physical activities go drastically down as he has mininal voluntary movement when the meds wear off. He can barely speak when this occurs as well.

And then there's when he's on meds. He'll have more voluntary movement, but then there's all the involuntary movements that come with the meds. He'll be swaying back and forth, his head will shake up and down, along with various other movements. And now he'll be slurring too much when he speaks.

There's a period between the two extremes where he'll be balanced out, but this period is way too short.

And I highly doubt MDMA (aka XTC) is a cause of PD just because of its properties. There are several factors that can lead to PD, such as head injuries (Muhammad Ali), alien chemicals (things inside your body that aren't naturally produced, such as pesticides, hormones, drugs...), and enviroment.

This is a pretty sensitive topic for me, so that's all I've got to say about it for now.

http://www.pdf.org/
http://www.parkinson.org/
http://www.apdaparkinson.org/user/index.asp

 

[Ozrat]

Also...

MDMA was originally developed to help psychiatrists to treat mental disorders in the office. The patients were to take the drug and use it as a therapeutic method of feeling good, relaxing and sharing life's concerns.

Unfortunately this treatment was ruined by the masses using it as a recreational drug outside of the offices.

MDMA is medically useful in this sense, so it should still be legal as medicine if not for the public in general.

 

[Sander]

I'm sorry for you and your dad, Ozrat.

BUT I'm only repeating after what I heard on that show, and according to everything I heard, MDMA CAN induce Parkinson's, or at the very least worsen it.

Perhaps you could tell your dad that XTC might help him?

 

[alec]

It's old news too. I saw a documentary on Canvas about it, like a year ago. People suffering from Parkinson's disease and getting 'better' from taking XTC.

Hell, if it works, if it really helps those patients, it should be studied and researched and looked into (and I don't doubt for one second that that is happening as we speak). Also, I don't doubt that scientists and doctors would be able to make a medicine that doesn't have the bad side-effects of XTC and thus: such a medicine should be prescribed for people who suffer from Parkinson's disease. Making the drug legal isn't the right solution, imo. Cannabis is also medically useful (for cancer patients and hiv patients and...), but that doesn't mean they should sell it at the grocery store or something, does it? Doctors should be able to prescribe it to help certain people, that's all.

 

[megatron]

I don't see why cannabis shouldn't be legal and sold in the grocery store. Tobacco, alchohol and caffeine is sold in similair places.

Ecstasy should be available too people who need it. I think most drugs should be available too everyone, but that's a different discussion mebbe.

 

[welsh]

What you legalize you can control and you can tax. What you don't legalize becomes part of the informal/underground economy.

I don't see why the government doesn't legalize cannabis. Grow it and tax it and pay off the deficit. Hell if they could tax cannabis, the money could go to schools.

Smoke pot, get high for the young minds of America!!

 

[megatron]

I think just legalizing drug dealers and making them get a liscense would be alright. The government wouldn't need to do much then, just get a % of the profit every month. Each dealer could have random inspection to see if his shit is good. Then people who get into trouble (like od, get sick) can just give the drug-dealers name and see if he's ripping people off. Non-registered drug-dealers would be ratted out by legal ones to eliminate competition.

Otherwise the drug-dealers would turn too harder drugs or just keep selling on the black-market. The government also wouldn't need to set up farms or increase chemist security. You could still sell stuff in the chemist for medical or recreational use too?

bizarro

 

[welsh]

Make it even better. If you legalized grass think of the fun Monsanto could have. All sorts of new genetic research on marijuana. Hell you could have giant pot plants that guarantee the best buzz. New fertilizers, seeds, what ever- some really good pot could be grown.

And we could avoid pot laced with angel dust or other additives. A safer high.

And the same rules that apply to alcohol could apply in the work place. Don't go to work stoned or drunk.

Then we could export! Hell if you can grow tobacco- an addictive drug that gives you a minor high, why not cannabis, a non-addictive that gets you a better high (while making you more social pleasant if hungrier).

There's an idea. McDonald's could sell joints with the burgers expanding the sale of burgers exponentially.

 

[Ozrat]

Make it even better. If you legalized grass think of the fun Monsanto could have. All sorts of new genetic research on marijuana. Hell you could have giant pot plants that guarantee the best buzz. New fertilizers, seeds, what ever- some really good pot could be grown.

...

There's an idea. McDonald's could sell joints with the burgers expanding the sale of burgers exponentially.

No.

Baaaaaad idea. If cannabis is to become legal it should stay natural and stay in the hands of co-op groups or small-scale farms.

 

[megatron]

Yeah, I imagine mcdonalds weed would be pretty shit. I also don't think that all that weed would mix well with the fatty kitchens and teenage workers. I doubt they'd do it anyway, might fuck up there 'family friendly' image.

I think just making it available for everyone would be alright. There should be the option of GM seeds (gm stuff usually doesn't fertilise though, so just single plants), I don't see how speeding up the natural progress would be too bad. It's similair to choosing the healthiest plant and breeding the characteristics you'd want to see, just over a shorter period of time. I don't know though, something would fuck up. Having marijuana weeds growing over the country that can't be killed might be a bit annoying. But gm discussion is a little seperate from weed, even though we're meant to be talking about xtc. Chances are when you start a drug topic someones going to talk about weed and INCUR THE WRATH OF SANDER!

Buying women a bouquet of weed has it's appeal though, but I doubt she'd be that impressed. Mabye some magic mushrooms on the side?

 

[alec]

Call me old-fashioned, but the legalization of any sort of drug is stupid. Thanks to that attitude, I've been a nicotine-addict for ten years and it's hell trying to kick that habit. Legalizing cannabis or XTC or whatever drug is not a good idea. Nope. Maybe cannabis isn't addictive to the body, but it IS addictive to the mind. I have lots of friends who smoke on a daily basis and who admit that they have major difficulties quitting that. Same goes for pill popping disco pigs: once you pop, you just can't stop!

And look at Holland: so yeah, you can buy weed in a shop there, but what has it brought them? Nothing but drug tourism. And it's still in the criminal scene, that whole cannabis thing: more than 50% of all cannabis that is being sold in Holland was grown in Belgium! Hah! Where it is still highly criminal (and rightly so). More freedom is often more trouble. We have enough dope headed children in our schools already.

 

[megatron]

Call me old-fashioned, but the legalization of any sort of drug is stupid. Thanks to that attitude, I've been a nicotine-addict for ten years and it's hell trying to kick that habit. BLALVLBLLABB

Perhaps your friends just don't want to stop? It's not harming them anyway, it's like wanting to eat chocolate or fuck. You're not addicted to it, just like THAT OLD FAMILIAR FEELING.

They aren't also forcing you to smoke cigs/pot. It's your own choice and fault, why should everyone else be sober because you're crazy?

Nothing but drug tourism. And it's still in the criminal scene, that whole cannabis thing: more than 50% of all cannabis that is being sold in Holland was grown in Belgium! Hah! Where it is still highly criminal (and rightly so). More freedom is often more trouble. We have enough dope headed children in our schools already.

Oh noez, drug tourism! Money! Noooooo!

I don't see how more freedom is bad either, you damn nazi.

I'd also like to mention my town has the highest rate of illegal drug use in the country, as well as the highest teen pregnancy and unemployment rate. Nifty eh? I'd prefer all the dickheads too be stoned rather than drunk too, not as violent. I've also noticed when stoned most of the dickheads are more relaxed and actually do some work instead of messing about.

 

[welsh]

Make it even better. If you legalized grass think of the fun Monsanto could have. All sorts of new genetic research on marijuana. Hell you could have giant pot plants that guarantee the best buzz. New fertilizers, seeds, what ever- some really good pot could be grown.

...

There's an idea. McDonald's could sell joints with the burgers expanding the sale of burgers exponentially.

No.

Baaaaaad idea. If cannabis is to become legal it should stay natural and stay in the hands of co-op groups or small-scale farms.

You big damn phoney. You are willing to legalize dope but you are not willing to let giant corporations make the stuff so that it is genetically altered, pesticide friendly, super powerful high. Instead you are willing to support leafy hippy commune types have a monopoly. Oh yeah, that's freedom!

You fucking commie bastard!



I am just kidding Oz, but really. How can you legalize it and keep giant companies like Monsanto out. I mean, it's companies like Monsanto that have made the breeds of agriculture that allow the US to make enough food to feed most of the world (but we don't give it to them because it's bad for our profits and we'd rather let those little brown african fuckers starve- or so goes the thinking of the agricultural interest groups).

I say the trick is to cross breed canabis with kudzu and let a wild species of the shit grow wild and uncontrollable. Every year we could all get together, burn the shit everywhere it grows, get stoned and sing kum-bay ya!

Possibly the groundhogs would love to chew on it as the groundhog who visited my old home used to. I wonder if it would get him stoned.

Thus the new environmental problem- a plague of stoned ground hogs.

Actually I kind of sympathize with Blade Runner. Two wrongs don't make a right, even if it frustrates Ozrat's opprotunities to get stoned and pick up chicks. Yes, maybe legalizing cannabis is a bad idea after all.

I hear most of the XTC in the US is shipped from Israel. Maybe we should cut our shipments of guns to the Israelis until they stop shipping us their fucking drugs. With all the pressure they give the Palestinians, maybe they might put half of it on the XTC manufacturers and give us a break.

 

[alec]

Perhaps your friends just don't want to stop? It's not harming them anyway, it's like wanting to eat chocolate or fuck. You're not addicted to it, just like THAT OLD FAMILIAR FEELING.

I'd call that: being addicted. Chocolate addiction exists. So does sex addiction. Hm... That good old familiar feeling of being totally stoned or high or spaced out...

I don't see how more freedom is bad either, you damn nazi.

I'd take that back, if I were you. Calling people 'nazi' just because they think Western society is getting way too perverted, is not right. You call muslims nazis because they have more laws and less freedom? Huh? Then again, some people really like to see how their own civilization is gradually collapsing. And you know why we've gotten all this freedom in the first place, megatron? You know why our politicians and our leaders give us all these freedoms? So we would shut the fuck up! So that they could continue their own sick games like raising taxes and taking away the real freedoms our ancestors fought and died for, like freedom of speech. Yeah, you might think it's cool to legalize dope, I think it's much better if one can still say what one wants to say - a basic freedom that is being taken away from us as we speak! Try calling someone a nazi in the newspapers or on tv, and you'll soon know what I mean. Even if you're right, you won't be right. And so on... (Hm. I'm referring to a fascist political party in Belgium, for those who care, called 'het Vlaams Blok' - they're nazikraut, but they can't be eliminated because of certain laws, they should be hanged, though) Anyway, I'm not a nazi at all, so you shouldn't say things like that, either.

I'd also like to mention my town has the highest rate of illegal drug use in the country, as well as the highest teen pregnancy and unemployment rate.

Oh wait, and you think that teen pregnancy and unemployment is connected with the "illegal" status of drugs? Moron. It's dead obvious to me that those two things are just connected with the use of drugs. Meh. If they were legalized, we'd have even more of that. And you can quote me on that.

 

[megatron]

I'd call that: being addicted. Chocolate addiction exists. So does sex addiction. Hm... That good old familiar feeling of being totally stoned or high or spaced out...

Is that a bad thing? Besides having too take your addiction to new heights until your body becomes overloaded with it and withers away. Still, too much of anything is bad. I don't see why it should stay illegal because some people smoke too much.

I'd take that back, if I were you.

Usually I would, but since you took it so seriously...

Calling people 'nazi' just because they think Western society is getting way too perverted, is not right. You call muslims nazis because they have more laws and less freedom? Huh?

Sure thing. Any society that has more laws and less freedom is stupid. It's also even more stupid when half of the laws don't make any sense.

Then again, some people really like to see how their own civilization is gradually collapsing.

I think it already is, legalizing a plant wouldn't probably make much difference.

And you know why we've gotten all this freedom in the first place, megatron? You know why our politicians and our leaders give us all these freedoms? So we would shut the fuck up! So that they could continue their own sick games like raising taxes and taking away the real freedoms our ancestors fought and died for, like freedom of speech.

Doesn't this sort of...not make sense? You're saying we have freedom of speech so the government can take away our freedom of speech? Bizarro worldo mate. Again, I don't see the link between pot and taxes. Besides mabye lowering taxes so we don't waste money on prisons and enforcement of drug use.

Yeah, you might think it's cool to legalize dope, I think it's much better if one can still say what one wants to say - a basic freedom that is being taken away from us as we speak!

Pun intended eh? I don't really think it's 'cool' to legalize pot, though I think it's 'uncool' to go to prison just because you smoked a herbal cigarette D:.

Try calling someone a nazi in the newspapers or on tv, and you'll soon know what I mean. Even if you're right, you won't be right.

I agree, freedom of speech doesn't actually exist fully. But I wasn't talking about taking away your freedom of speech, I was talking about legalizing marijuana.

Anyway, I'm not a nazi at all, so you shouldn't say things like that, either.

Fair do.

Oh wait, and you think that teen pregnancy and unemployment is connected with the "illegal" status of drugs? Moron. It's dead obvious to me that those two things are just connected with the use of drugs. Meh. If they were legalized, we'd have even more of that. And you can quote me on that.

I did. And it sounds sillier the second time around. Teen Pregnancy in my school occurs with most of the slappers and slags. Most of them get drunk, fuck and end up with a little baby I don't see what this has to do with getting stoned and not able to get it up anyway. Unemployment occurs because there dumb as shit and happier not to work, just get benefits which they spend on drugs. At least if you legalized drugs you could keep track of this kind of shit.

House prices around here are about 6k. How does this relate to your master plan of CANNABIS=SOURCE OF EVIL? Overall I think you're just acting like this because of you trying to get of your addiction to drugs, totally unrelated to weed. Should we ban cigarettes and booze? Should we limit the choices of everyone because a few misuse these choices? No. But I don't see how making pot legal will suddenly fuck everything up.

 

[alec]

Pffffff. Didn't even bother reading your post. Too long, dude.

Know what: you're right anyway. I'm with you: Legalize! Legalize everything! Wooohooo! Cool!

 

[Paladin Solo]

There was a lot said here that I disagree with (legalizing some drugs/drug dealers) but I don't want to get into another never-ending debate, so I'll just answer Sander's question.

If it's strictly for medicinal purposes only, then I would be willing to spend tax dollars to support that, hell, I would support free healthcare even though that has some bad side effects too (no more competition(no more race to space in a sense), and people crowding into hospitals for a cough medicine), but the good effects are the ones that grab me. But I wouldn't support legalizing drugs for public use. Why? Mostly because of the harmful side effects. Some drugs like marijuana I could care less if it is legalized or not though. I won't smoke it, since I wouldn't even want to smoke a regular cigarette.