Fallout 2 mod Economy and Combat Rebalance mod

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by phobos2077, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Mar 6, 2005
    Hey, phobos. I'm interested in some aspects of your mod, particularly economy & combat rebalance, but not so much crafting and such. I'm wondering if your mod is modular, or if it's all or nothing.
  2. Brunzer

    Brunzer First time out of the vault

    Apr 9, 2010
    Thanks, I'm away for a couple of days, but I will configure sfall as soon as I'm back home again. And yes, I'm using the sfall that came with the RP.

    I haven't encountered this bug again since I've reloaded an older savegame. So it seems like a onetime flux. But I'll reload the bugged save and get the debug.log.

    I suck at design and graphics, so I can't help you out in that department. But I'd be more than willing to do some playtesting.

    True, but Brainbot is the only somewhat useful NPC available, besides Vic, for an evil playthrough. Tying the mk II lockpicks to him, would make him slightly more worthwhile. That being said, the requirements are pretty steep. But mostly because having a high science skill just isn't neccessary. You can get it to 92% from books and that is enough for every science related skillcheck besides the Brainbot and some novelty thing on the Oil Rig.

    I realize I'm pushing my own agenda here, it's just that I love the idea of playing a mad (evil) scientist build. If say, crafting your own energy cells or MFC would require a high science skill, combined with earlier access to the armor in the Toxic Caves by virtue of Brainbot, you'd have a viable build that encourages a different playing style.
  3. lujo

    lujo Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 14, 2013

    Phobos went to a lot of trouble to make it all modular, so that you can technically install everything separtely and adjust to you liking... but after a lot of testing its not quite so modular in practice.

    Economy is simple, you can probably slap it on vanilla, it lowers the drops of stuff and increases the prices of stuff in shops, lowers clip ammounts and takes and rearanges loot around some places. However if you dial it too high and don't install crafting you'll make the game unplayable, and if you dial it too hard and install crafting it won't work too well because you'll be too reliant on free stuff and won't even use the shops (which is surprisingly more fun past a certain point than the original where you cheeze the shops too easily).

    Traps are basically a huge seller of the mod, but they fully require crafting, you can't buy them anywhere, you can only craft them. And the rather well done and integrated crafting is quite a selling point (if you appy the weapon stuff and the economy stuff I think you'll have a really hard time without crafting, though I'm not sure). It's much less intrusive then in the megamod, for example, and really feels like an integral part of the game.

    Essentially the only thing that's fully optional in practice is most of the weapon changes (throwing is pretty good allthough slightly too good in some situations, esp on enemies, most other changes just make combat shorter in practice and occasionally make a weapon better than it needs to be. I've tried it without most of them and it plays better.). As someone who's been up and down the game with the mod, I'm actually curious to hear how playable it is at all with only combat & economy and none of the other stuff.

    @Brunzer: Well, you can allready play an evil scientist (in fact you have to since that's the only way toget brain bot), but seeing that the brainbot is available to the evil guy and many other small guns guys aren't, doesn't that make acessing him for 120% science total overkill? Definitely a good reason to make him more acessible. But getting acess to toxic caves via brainbot just means getting acess to it wthout even doing much in new reno, not really a good idea.

    And... why is everyone suggesting they want to craft ammo? The insane general availability of ammo (and stimpaks) is pretty much the only real problem with the economy in vanilla (besides critters dropping guns and gun selling prices being too high). I've played the game through on the harshest setting of the mod, made enemies almost never drop weapons, and still never had trouble with ammo, what are you people doing with it? XD
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  4. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped

    Apr 24, 2010
    Well it was always modular, that was one of the main ideas. You can install only economy changes (mostly it's the barter price script + some map changes) or only weapon/ammo rebalance without all new items (in this case Bozar will use 14mm ammo and will be slightly less powerful). New items, crafting & random encounter changes are all tied together (you can't use them separately), because I thought if someone doesn't like crafting than he probably won't like new items either. New quests require all new items and can be turned off separately. Some small game mechanics are also toggleable like throwing damage boost, sneak attacks, weapon drop, etc.

    As lujo pointed out, the problem is that the mod is being balanced with all items and features turned on. So basically if you use only economy changes, you will get less money from selling items, less loot in some places (should encourage you to use shops sometimes); if you use weapon, ammo and armor changes only - you will see more realistic/balanced weapon stats and combat will be slightly faster-paced. BUT, there might be some holes balance-wise (actually vanilla or RP "holes"), because:
    1) I and most people are testing the mod with crafting & quests turned on.
    2) I'm adding new items mostly not for the sake of pure variety, but for specific balance/gameplay reasons, to address exactly this "holes". For example, new monster parts are meant to be used in conjunction with harsher economy (as a way to make money); throwing axe is an important part of throwing skill enhancement.

    Alternatively, you can install mod with all features in, but just don't use crafting menu (though you will see some dialog lines about crafting). New items are not too extensively spread through the game yet. They are mostly only obtainable through crafting + some of them can be bought or found in random encounters.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  5. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Mar 6, 2005
    Thanks a lot for the detailed responses. Here's where I'm coming from: I've got several friends who have been waiting years to play Fallout 2, because I kept having them hold off until I was satisfied that the RP was close enough to being bug-free.

    Finally, I think that time has come. I was going to have them play with Magnus' Weapon's Redone mod as well, which I'm a big fan of. Unfortunately, Magnus has gone MIA and hasn't updated his mod in a long time. This mod seems to be a sort of evolution of Magnus' mod, so I was wondering if I should have my friends use this instead, but I think adding crafting and traps and all that jazz, while it might be a change for the better, I feel it's too big of a change from the vanilla experience. That's why I was wondering how modular this mod is.

    I know a lot of people here would suggest that I have my friends play through the vanilla game on their first play-though of Fallout 2 before having them play it with the RP or any other mods, but that's not really an option here. They aren't the type of people that are going to play through Fallout 2 more than once, and they're largely interested in playing the RP since I made major contributions to that.
  6. lujo

    lujo Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 14, 2013
    ^ Well, to be honest, the best thing about the mod is that it doesn't really deviate that much from the regular experience. The RP content definitely flows much smoother and feels more integrated with the crafting system (because now that fish, fruit and junk are crafting components it adds a lot to visiting Umbra and the Abbey for example), and the loot distribution in the EPA also alleviates some of the complaints I've herd about that place. And the gameflow fixes were designed to be part of the regular RP anyway. It plays more like an RP update than anything.

    If they don't set the weapon drop rates and the economy settings to extreme harshness ends, and if they're unlikely to play Fallout 2 more than once and they're interested in RP exclusively, you're pretty safe to recommend it with everything on (except possibly the radiating stimpaks, as radiation only has an annoying cosmetic affect on the NPC which makes them spam radiated messages while not affecting their stats.)

    Technically, any weapon mod including magnuses affects the general experience more than all stuff that looks like it would here (as it just fills empty design space in a sort of sensible way). If, for example, they installed E&R without weapon changes, there's basicaly 0 chance they'd even notice that something isn't simply a logical optional instal for the RP. Of the kind you always chackmark.

    In fact - if you're trying to showcase the RP specifically, then doing it with E&R is actually what i'd recommend absolutely, because it makes it work and flow even better.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  7. Brunzer

    Brunzer First time out of the vault

    Apr 9, 2010
    I’ve configured sfall and got a debug.log from the (in my game) bugged save. The file was actually almost 15mb mainly because the last line was repeated ad infinitum ‘2ERROR: attempt to reference map var out of range:’. I’ve shortened it considerably for your viewing and downloading pleasure. Debug file and savegame

    In some cases the beefed up creatures don’t have full hitpoints, I think it has to do with these critters being in set locations and not newly generated, like in encounters. Their hitpoints display like 26/50, where 26 was the original value. Screenshot1 screenshot 2

    In this screenshot you can see the amount of ammo I got out of the Toxic Caves. SEC and 2mm EC look fine to me, .223 and MFC might still be a bit much, 4.7 caseless is, compared to the other ammo, definitely a lot. Also, the Bozar was loaded with .223 instead of .50. Screenshot

    Last but not least, some typo’s from Valerie in Vault City.
    deffinitely, It’ll take a $700.’ Should be definitely, also, capitalization on It’ll is not necessary since it comes after a comma and the a before $700 can be excluded. Personally I think ‘definitely, It’ll cost you $700.’ Works better. Alternatively ‘definitely, I’ll take $700.’ would also work. Lastly, in the infoscreen it reads ‘You have obtained a schematics for some electronic devices’, a should be omitted. Screenshot
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  8. Brunzer

    Brunzer First time out of the vault

    Apr 9, 2010
    I’m playing your mod for several weeks now, so I feel it’s time to do a little write-up and give you my 2 cents.

    First, I’ll start by describing myself as a player. I’ve been playing fallout 2 ever since it came out. The first years quite fervently and now probably once a year or so, whenever an incentive like a new update of the RP or a nice mod presents itself. Quite a lot of experience, but also very set in my ways. Even when I force myself to play a radically different build, I have to take great care to persistently play different, lest I return to my normal playstyle.
    This normal playstyle consist of numbercrunching and gaming the system. In every RPG I play, I always try to get an edge by powergaming within the rules imposed by the game. A horrible munchkin, if you will. I’ve completely exploited alchemy in Morrowind and yes, I always unscribe spellscrolls and write them again in Baldur’s Gate 2. And I like it. If it gets out of hand and impedes my overall enjoyment of the game, I impose a few houserules on myself such as no savescumming, only one stimpack per turn during combat etc.


    I haven’t tried out every weapon, but so far I really like what I see. Energy weapons, especially laser weapons, got a nice boost. They’re believable once more as the most advanced weapons the world had to offer. The 7.62 ammo has modifiers that do its heavy calibre justice and grenades are downright scary, as they should be.

    This makes otherwise underused weapons like the AK112 and the FN FAL viable options. Especially the FN-FAL was always one of my favourite weapons in the game. The look, the nifty nightscope, the balance between good range, accuracy and it’s close combat prowess with its burst mode all made it in to a versatile midgame weapon. Sadly, in the unmodded game its performance was very underwhelming due to the 7.62 ammo.

    The changes to the sniper rifle, less accuracy at close range, are also good. Yet this has a probably unwanted side-effect. New Reno gangsters, when spawned close to their enemies miss a lot and actually move closer to their targets, which in turn gives them even less chance to hit. The same happens with Lenny when equipped with a sniper rifle, since he doesn’t have the combat option ‘snipe the enemy’.

    Generally combat is sped up and more intense due to lower armor resistances and higher damage. I couldn’t take on early mobs like highwaymen and bandits, which I consider a good thing because I didn’t spend much points in combat skills. Raiders were a nightmare mostly due to the dude with the grenade launcher. Which is exacerbated by the close proximity of your allies at the start of an encounter. I’ll check in another playthrough how I’d fare with a more combat orientated character from the start.

    Economy & Crafting

    In previous playthroughs I’d have all the money/merchandise I need by the time I reached Vault City, about 1/3 in the game. With this mod I reached the comfort zone only after doing most quests in Broken Hills, looting New Reno and a quick visit to the NCR, so about 2/3 in the game. Even then I’m looting and selling everything I can get my hands on. Love the new bodyparts by the way. I also like that certain items are more valuable in different towns, like selling jet in Redding.

    My character has 6 charisma and about 120% barter skill. I noticed though that in the NCR and especially San Francisco the buying prices are so low that before I stock up on ammo it’s better to make trip along other towns and sell my stuff there for cash. In my opinion this makes bartering a chore and somewhat detrimental to the gameplay.

    I really like the crafting system. The fish soup and meat stew are a real boon to a low level character and somewhat offset the higher damage sustained during encounters. Ingredients for the stew are widely available, but fish is only in the first stages of the game. I get that fish is difficult to transport in desert conditions, but maybe smoked fish could be available in more places or by certain caravan traders?

    Regarding the stew I’d like to make a suggestion. I am by no means a professional cook, but I do pride myself on being able to make a mean stew. My secret ingredient is actually a bottle of strong dark beer. Maybe you could add beer as a requirement for making the stew?

    The 90% repair requirement for crafting leather armor mkII is pretty steep. Since repair is underused in the game, most players won’t spend any points on it and raise it by reading books. By the time you’ve raised it to 90% or have Vic’s second level up, you’re probably already wearing metal armor or higher.

    For the crafting of the various drugs there seems to be a lack of empty hypo’s in the game. Would be nice if certain traders would stock them regularly.

    I haven’t played around with traps yet. Don’t why though, probably because I always seem to play the game in the same way J. I will try it out in the future though.

    The economy of combat

    One of the best aspects of this mod is that because of the smaller ammo quantities and the increased scarcity of money, I really had to give second thought about the ammo I was firing. My character trudges around with several weapons, with their purpose not only defined by the power of my opponents but also by their financial returns.

    For example: 7.62 goes for $500 per 20 bullets on average. 500 / 20 = $25 per shot. Which means that if I kill a small gecko in one shot I can turn a small profit by selling its pelt. Missing or taking 2 shots means a net loss.

    With weapon drops set to 25% and the average selling price of a 10mm pistol of $100, bandits are a drain on my resources. Unless I manage to consistently kill four of them with one bullet each. In the same vain, radscorpions, small deathclaws, pigrats are all not worthwhile in an economic sense. So for these opponents I use a gun firing cheap ammo or use a melee weapon.

    This automatically places the 7.62 ammo (and weapons that fire it) in the midgame. Same goes for the shotgun shells and 5mm ammo (though I haven’t run any numbers on those). The energy weapons fire even more expensive ammo, effectively placing them in the late-midgame to late-game segment. So yeah, this seems like a pretty sensible balance to me. Well done.


    The altered lesser deathclaws are great. A cave full of them used to constitute 7000 xp for basically no effort. On that note, I think that molerats give way to much xp. They are about as though as a golden gecko, have no special attack like poison or flame breath and are very vulnerable to shots in the eyes. Especially due to the latter I have even less problems with them than a group of golden geckos, I simply shoot or punch them in the eyes.

    Fire geckos on the other hand could give a little more xp. A group of them gives about 1530 xp versus 1800 xp from a group of molerats. Fire geckos do more damage (also more armor piercing it seems), have high perception and have the very nasty habit of barbequing your followers.

    Though deathclaws run away after a single crippled limb as opposed to aliens, floaters and centaurs. It makes them rather easy to dispatch. I think it would be more befitting of their fierce reputation if they charged at you no matter what. Crippling their legs is still effective since it allows you to outrun them. I’ve killed the deathclaw in the Abbey this way with a pipe rifle. Sure it took me 100 shots of 10mm AP, but still, a low level character shouldn’t be able to do that with just stubborn persistence.

    Some thoughts and suggestions

    I’m not a modder so I have no idea about the feasibility of these points, but here goes:

    Grenades are lobbed indiscriminately by opponents without regard for their allies.

    The stats of the combat armor mkII are already reduced, therefore it is much less gamebreaking.

    Can the combat options of the followers be improved by their level-ups? So that, in line with their personalities, Sulik for example can only be set to charge at the enemy at his first stage. But after a few level ups, he gains some insight in combat tactics and can be set to a more sensible approach. Goris could be told to stay close, Cassidy gets better burst options and Vic runs away when his finger hurts until he reached his later stages.

    All in all, I think this a great mod, a gamechanger, yet in a very subtle way.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
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  9. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped

    Apr 24, 2010
    @Brunzer: thanks for you review.

    I will see what can be done with AI in next versions. Someone also complained that NPCs don't use bursts often enough.

    Not without more engine hacking, I'm afraid (there is a one set of follower rules for each follower, regardless of his current "level")

    I plan to resume working on the mod in december. As first step: trap system, grenade launcher, molotovs will be improved. Some more easy loot reduced. Also probably some ammo types will be nerfed slightly in terms of armor penetration..
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
  10. lujo

    lujo Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 14, 2013
    ^ When you work on Molotovs, remember not to accidentaly remove their functionality to damage doors, as they kinda work like emergency lockpicks in the RP (it's kinda important in Klamath, and it's a way for a non lockpick character to access vault 15 wihtout fighting I think).

    @Brunzer: I gotta clarify the hypodermic thing, as I was very keen on keeping their situation in line with the original game. The RP added a ham fisted stack of 10 to an easily accessible desk in EPA, probably because someone came to the same conclusion and thought to "fix" this.

    Thing is, collecting hypos is a mini-game of sorts. There's a limited number and the reason it's like that is because they're the limiting factor on stimpak crafting. And stimpak crafting really does need limiting, as unlimited stimpaks also means unlimited Super Stimpaks (even in the vanilla core game through myron). Easy access to stimpaks (and that IS easy access to them) was one of the main disbalancing factors in the economy. Crafting them was ment to involve the tricky process of gathering hypos (the number of which in the game is fairly low), and it's general balancing on the drug crafting mechanism. As well as it should be, IMO.

    The stew bussiness inadvertedly broke this rule, lol, and phobos was kinda weirded out at first by me crafting them like mad and asking for them to be more readily available as he didn't think the game ought to be a "cooking simulator". But since they have weight, during playtesting I found that low tech food-shaped-stimpaks (EDIT: Which don't turn into super stimpacks!) you can craft a lot of which didn't break the "hypo's are a mini-game" rule was a good thing. The fish stew can only be crafted with fish from Umbra and San Fran (you got more at the docks), but it makes visiting Umbra awesome even if the fish are rare later on. The actual problem isn't the scarcity of the fish, as making stimpaks (and the stews ARE functionally that) reliably craftable is a really bad idea when it comes to balance. The problem is rather that the meat stew is really, really easy to craft and adding beer to the recipie sounds like a great idea.

    As for why easily craftable stimpaks (of any kind) are not a very good idea - stimpaks are ment to be a resource drain, but if you have tons of them you can always heal to full hp-mid combat for 2 AP (provided you have quick pockets) or 4. Resource drain in combat is 2 things - money you need for healing and money you need for ammo. There's pretty much nothing else (you could be using drugs or grenades on a regular basis, but there's no real point to overdo that).

    So anything that reliably reduces the drain those 2 present sucks.

    It's also why the weapon buffs ultimately don't work well with the system, because short combat = less ammo used = smaller resource drain. This is why the economy balancing system of the mod truly shines if you ditch most of the weapon buffs - it works best if you're not afraid to get into combat and if those combats last a while and there's a lot of shooting and healing going on.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  11. J_Fred

    J_Fred Long time lurker

    Dec 22, 2013
    Phobos, how easy was/is it to modify mr.fixit for new items? I mentioned the possibility of adding a few new weapons/ammo earlier, but I get the feeling that doesn't hold up to the spirit of your mod. However, I would like to modify mr. fixit to allow for a few more crafting options.

    Is there a readme available, or was it mostly trial and error on your part?

    Thank you for your time, I'm still enjoying another play through with the mod!
  12. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped

    Apr 24, 2010
    You want to make your own mod?
    Well, you can download original Mr. Fixit and read it's readme. It's not full and outdated in some details, because I changed how items are described slightly. Use this python tool to generate test0.msg file. Latest version of fixit_tomsg can be found in latest mod version (sources folder).

    Steps to add new item:
    1) Create icon with background color RGB(40, 40, 40) and put it in pcx/items folder in pcx format.
    2) Add new section in test0.txt (use other sections as reference).
    [ITEM]                   # designates item section start
    627                      # item PID that will be created and added to inventory, with optional quantity specifier like :5
    pcx/items/stew1.pcx      # item icon PCX
    69060                    # icon size, this is calculated: icon_width*1000 + icon_height
    CRFT_FOD                 # sfall gvar that must be non-zero for this item to show up in crafting menu
    18000                    # time to craft in ticks (1 second = 10 ticks)
    NO                       # can item be disassembled YES/NO
    1                        # item category in crafting dialog
    [TOOLS]                  # tools section
    4|236                    # each line can have several PIDs separated by | - it is like "OR" operator
    [SKILLS]                 # skills
    FIRST_AID+OUTDOORSMAN:75    # like tools above, each line in skills section is a MUST (eg, lines are divided by "AND" logical operator), each line allow for sum of 2 skills to be checked against minimal value
    [COMPONENTS]             # 
    535:1|536:1              # again, to craft you need to have at least something from each line. PIDs separated by | - are optional choice (like Fish or Scaly Fish)
    71:1                     # quantity specifier just like in item PID section
    3) Run fixit_tomsg.py (you need to install Python interpreter for this), it will generate new version of test0.msg (need to point it to both new test0.txt and old test0.msg from my mod).
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2014
  13. J_Fred

    J_Fred Long time lurker

    Dec 22, 2013
    I was thinking I could just alter your mod and use it as is, but with a new item or two.

    Can I just alter the text0.msg file using a simple program like notepad? I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but that would make this much more straightforward.

    Thank you for your mod and your time!
  14. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped

    Apr 24, 2010
    You can, but that will require you to maintain proper line indexes.
  15. J_Fred

    J_Fred Long time lurker

    Dec 22, 2013
    I think I have it so far. I've added ways to craft Combat armor Mk.II (high science/repair requirements, as well as needing combat armor to begin with), Metal Armor Mk.II, and the Turbo Plasma rifle. The only issue are getting the pcx images looking neat and clean, but that's secondary.

    This gives more reason to have science and repair above 100 I think, especially considering how limited protection is in the game with your mods (which I love).

    Thank you!
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  16. J_Fred

    J_Fred Long time lurker

    Dec 22, 2013
    Issue resolved.

    The Mr. Fixit add on is just superb, phobos.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
  17. J_Fred

    J_Fred Long time lurker

    Dec 22, 2013
    Just going to say this is still one of my favorite mods for any game ever.

    I've recieved a few PMs regarding my additions to Mr. Fixit. If anyone wants my edited files to add more craftable items, just send me a PM. Phobos, I assume you don't mind?

    Items added:
    Metal Armor
    Metal Armor Mk. II
    Combat Armor Mk.II (requires standard combat armor and high science/repair (100+))
    Hardened Power Armor (requires power armor and VERY high science/repair (120+))

    .50 Depleted Uranium (New ammo - insane penetration, but very expensive/rare)
    Micro Fusion Cell to Small Energy Cell conversion
    Small Energy Cell to Micro Fusion Cell conversion
    4/0 Buckshot Shotgun Shells (new ammo - more damage than regular shells, but less penetration than slugs)

    Laser Pistol Mk.II (magneto)
    Plasma Pistol Mk.II
    .233 Pistol
    Turbo Plasma Rifle (high science/repair/energy weapons)

    That's what I have so far. I use it with the latest RP and Economy mod, along with my own custom weapons (Browning M2, MRS Sniper Rifle, AA-12 shotgun,etc...) and enjoy it quite a bit. If anyone wants the crafting additions (or hell, my weapon additions) just let me know and I'll PM the files you need.

    Thanks again for this awesome mod, Phobos!
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  18. J_Fred

    J_Fred Long time lurker

    Dec 22, 2013
    So here's my addition to this mod that a few have sent me PM's about. This includes new items, weapons, ammo, crafting abilities and a few worldmap changes. The file can be found here : http://ge.tt/3XcMkl42/v/0 (sorry I don't have a better way to upload/host the file).

    There's a more extensive readme in the main file. It's only about 300kb.

    The main additions are:
    New Crafting techniques
    New Weapons
    minor changes to worldmap encounters

    The crafting images are rough around the edges, as I initally intended this mod to be for my use and my use only, but due to requests
    I figured it wouldn't hurt to share my effort if others desire the results. Other than that the mod should be complete.

    New Crafting items

    Metal Armor
    Metal Armor Mk.II
    Combat Armor Mk. II
    Hardened Power Armor

    .50 DU
    Micro Fusion cell/ Small energy Cell conversion and vice versa
    12 GA 4/0 Buckshot

    Laser Pistol Mk.II
    Plasma Pistol Mk. II
    5.56/.233 Pistol
    Turbo Plasma Rifle


    Ammo added:
    .50 DU
    14mm is now .416 Barret ammo (a step below 50 cal), JHP and AP variants
    .223 is renamed to 5.56, still has FMJ and AP variants
    12 Ga 4/0 Buckshot - more damage than standard buckshot, but not as much penetration as slugs

    All ammo stacks have been cut in half or even in thirds for the most part.
    With a barter of 100 and some know how (gambling/caravan runs) you can still fund a small militia if you're resourceful.


    The more valuable the crafting item, the higher the skill requirements. For example, the Turbo Plasma rifle requires not only a standard rifle, but a science/repair of 100+, deans electronics and a big book of science on your person (doesn't use the books, but you need them as a reference). Combat armor Mk.II requires even higher repair and more tools, and Hardened power armor is even more resource/skill intensive. And of course you can't make either of these items from scratch... you need the base armor variants to create them.

    Major Weapons added/replaced:
    Barret M107 Heavy Sniper (uses new .416 Ammo)
    Browning M2 (VERY rare ammo, but a very devastating weapon)
    M 16 - 5.56 Assault Rifle, lighter and more accurate than the FN FAl, but not quite as powerful
    FN M3 - Replaced the FN HPFA, new inventory image
    Wattz AMR - replaces the Laser Rifle Mk.II. It's an anti-material laser weapon. Similar to the Barret Heavy Sniper
    Attchinson AA-18 - replaces the Jackhammer, new inventory image as well
    XL70e3 PAR - Now an assault energy weapon, effectively a pulse FN FAL. Not too overpowered, but a great mid/late game weapon. New Inventory image.
    M249 SAW - replaces the LSW, new inventory image
    Barret M96 AMR - replaces the Bozar, uses phobos' 50 cal and 50 cal DU.
    Saiga12 Combat Shotgun - replaces the combat shotgun, new inventory image
    Remington MRS-1 - replaces the standard sniper, new inventory frame
    Beretta 9mm - replaces the old 9mm gun. Not super powerful, but very consistent
    Ithaca Pump Shotgun - replaces the standard shotgun, long barrell and good range
    .416 Colt Python - unrealistic (in name at least), but basically a .50 cal handgun. New inventory image, replaces the 14mm pistol

    Overall most weapons are a bit more damaging. Not 100% realistic (you can still survive a direct hit or two with most arms), but more unforgiving.
    As stated before, ammo stacks are MUCH lower now, adding to some scarcity.
    Bounty hunters now come after you, regardless of Karma. What, you think being a goody goody was all rainbows and butterflys? I have upped the level requirements however.
    The new weapons added may be carried by certain level-appropriate npcs (Enclave troops MAY have an M2, Rangers often have heavy snipers and M16s, etc...)

    Here are images of some of the new weapons added. In order you see the Barret Sniper, Browning M2, M16, Colt Python, Gatling Laser, Ithaca shotgun, Baretta 9mm, new sniper rifle, Saiga 12, new XL70e3 (pulse assault file now, pretty neat!), the Pancor/Attchinson AA-18 and the FN M3 (replaces the HPFA). Most are either from Finesse's mods, or the "worlds collide" mod I believe. Few are my own work.

    Anyway, anyone who uses this mod please let me know how it goes. I've never posted any of my own mods before, so I look forward to the critique.

    Phobos, if you would prefer I stop cluttering up your mod post, I will gladly delete this and start a new post. This is your mod and your idea, so I don't want to step on your toes, so to speak.

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
  19. phobos2077

    phobos2077 Mildly Dipped

    Apr 24, 2010
    @J_Fred: that's very nice. I don't mind your additions posted here.
    1) Ammo pack sizes and increased weapon damage. I thought ammo was already scarce enough (packs were reduced about 1.5x-2x plus ammo gets removed from inventories on death). As for the damage - many people complained that some weapons are already too powerful. This makes game more realistic, but on the other hand creates problem when you can't run away from encounter where you previously could, just because you get killed with grenade or FN FAL in 1-2 rounds... I planned to implement some tactical options for safe retreat, but in the meantime I think damage and especially ammo penetration values should not be too high.

    2) New weapons. Browning M2 is crazy!! I like the idea, though in my vision of how powerful such weapon should be, I don't really see where you can use it properly. Maybe killing a bunch of enclave soldiers in one burst from time to time, with ammo being very scarce :)
    Saiga 12 - how did it end up in US wasteland? ) One of my favorite shotguns in games though. If you think about it, a lot of these shotguns go to US these days (or at least they did before) for sport...
    New .416 ammo. Don't really see point in another tier of sniper rifles. Did you find it useful? I always thought that due to map sizes/design in Fallout, sniper rifles were not very useful and having .223 sniper buffed to 7.62 caliber and additional .50 rifle for later game would be enough for this line of weapons.
    Beretta instead of Mauser. Do you think people will not mind Mauser being replaced? It was rather old and useless I guess...
    M16. I already turned that "rare blue rifle" into .223 AR. Maybe a better idea would be to find some more "interesting" .223 AR from real life (something more modern, less mainstream) and replace "blue rifle" with it. Would appreciate the help in making the icon for it.. (though I will probably fine-tune it for proper color balance)
    Colt Python. Don't like replacing 14mm Pistol, it was quite appropriate for the setting, on of the iconic fallout weapons. Too much real-life weapons doesn't fit for post-nuclear 2070s. It's not Wasteland 2 (which is 1980s era).
    Do you mind if I include some of your weapons in the main mod? I had a few icons from the past that I hesitated to include before (I always thought that there are already enough weapons in the game, and I didn't wanted to replace the old ones, because the mod was about making the old content work better rather than adding a lot of new stuff). Now I got to think about it again.

    Another important thing to consider about new weapons.. small guns skill is already OP. Need to really add something for other skills to compensate, including Melee, Unarmed (though I had some ideas for the next version already).
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
  20. J_Fred

    J_Fred Long time lurker

    Dec 22, 2013
    1.) I assume most people spam the A button during encounters, and just flee anyway. Without that option, then the game does become quite difficult (artificially so, in my opinion). My mod was made by a veteran F2 player (me), for a veteran F2 player (me again). I think simply toning the damage down would suffice, or even lowering the minimum damage, increasing spread/variation about the gun classes. Most of the upper tier weapons I've modded are capped around 65-70 damage, but some are more consistent than others (i.e. the lower damage bound is higher). So a more consistent weapon, say a laser weapon or heavy sniper, may do 45-50, while a plasma weapon may do 35-50. That was kind of how I approached the "balance" of the weapon damage system - one shot of most weapons can still deal hefty damage, but the less refined or "powerful" weapons may not always get that 1-2 shot kill. But a Turbo Plasma Rifle or Bozar is guaranteed death unless you're in some upper tier armor.

    As to the ammo... I always have too much. I've literally cut stacks down to 5-8 per unit, and still don't feel like ammo is scarce. Micro Fusion Cells and .50 DU/BMG maybe, but most other ammo is plentiful, even with your reduced loot and weapon drop addition. I usually run a team as well - Cassidy, Vic, Cat Jules and Kitsune if I can make the trip back to the EPA and find another ERSI canister. But by all means keep your ammo stacks as is, no need to alter them. I don't think I changed the DR/Dt stuff too much, just the amount of ammo.

    2.) I would be honored if you included my weapons.

    I absolutely understand your critique of the Python, and the Saiga-12. It was more of an addition of boredom for me. Feel free to remove them, or even just rename the Saiga-12 to something more conventional and fitting, as I like the inventory image. I am, as it is probably quite evident, not a gun buff. So my knowledge is limited to google searches.

    The new Sniper Rifle is a step down from the Bozar/Beretta, but a step up from the orginal sniper. It's a bit less powerful than the M72 in the long run, but it fits well as a mid/late game weapon. That was my big idea - to extend the mid/late game weaponry. That's why I changed the "blue gun" (xl70e3) to an automatic pulse rifle, as it's quite useful, and fills not only the mid/late game emptiness in weaponry, but also the missing small auto energy weapons in my opinion (as there are no options for an assault rifle that uses energy weapons skill).

    It's your mod, but if I had to suggest the weapons to include, it would be the Browning M2 (which you can single shot, it's not always a burst), the Wattz AMR , the new XL70e3, the M16 and the M187 Sniper. The only issues are that the AMR and the Xl70e3 are replacers, and the AMR itself uses the vanilla XL70E3 inventory image, so you would either have to change it or do without your version of the XL70e3. Though I would argue replacing one small arms assault rifle (the .223 Xl70e3) with two energy weapons is a fair trade off, as there are PLENTY of small guns available. That was my thinking in altering it, at least.

    As to unarmed/melee, I never really paid attention to it. Not that it doesn't need more help, it's just that I don't know where to begin. I also think that with the Wattz AMR and the Pulse assault rife (xl70e3 replacer) I've added bring more power to the energy weapons field, making them a viable primary skill even. The browning M2 throws a few points towards Big Guns as well. I think it's a fairly balanced ranged combat mod (though some may argue too realistic due to high damage). But would we even expect power armor to hold up to a Browning M2? On top of that, the .50 cal ammo is nearly non existent, unless you kill of an enclave trooper with an M2, and even then it's a crapshoot as to whether he drops the weapon... and an even more difficult task to make sure he doesn't kill you!

    Thank you for the feedback. I'll be more than happy to work with you to include any of my additions that fit the spirit of your mod.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
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