Edward Said

welsh

Junkmaster
Folks- here's something worth noting-

From the Economist-


Edward Said, eloquent spokesman for Palestine, died on September 25th, aged 67

The Independent

“YOU'RE treated like a diplomat of terrorism, with a place at the table,” remarked Edward Said when Salman Rushdie asked him (in a conversation reproduced in “The Politics of Dispossession”, published in 1994) what it was like for him, the distinguished professor of English and comparative literature at Columbia University, to be Palestine's voice in the United States. Mr Said repudiated terrorism, in all its forms, but was a passionate, eloquent and persistent advocate for justice for the dispossessed Palestinians, struggling to make his case to people whose sympathies are largely given over to the nation, Israel, that carried out the dispossessing. He understood that sympathy, and the sea of old guilt that lies beneath it. But, as he wrote wryly, and with unusual understatement given the snide character-assassination he constantly suffered, “To be the victim of a victim does present quite unusual difficulties.”

Literature and politics came together in “Orientalism”, Mr Said's best known and most influential book, published in 1978. Entwining political and cultural imperialism, the work argues that western writers and academics have misrepresented, and still misrepresent, the Islamic world in a manner that has eased the way for the West to dominate the East. All this, naturally, was deeply unpopular with the formidable scholars he denigrated. But “Orientalism”, translated into dozens of languages, became a foundation text for a great boom in post-colonial studies.

Not always with beneficial results. Students from the Middle East, reading his words, have seized the chance of finding yet another excuse to pile their misfortunes on to the broad shoulders of the imperialist West. But Mr Said himself was a punishing critic of the sordid, totalitarian Arab regimes that litter the region. “It is the role of the Arab intellectual”, he wrote, “to articulate and defend the principles of liberation and democracy at all costs.”

Among sordid regimes, he came to class Yasser Arafat's Palestinian government. In the 1980s, Mr Said, a member of the Palestine National Council at the time, was influential in urging Mr Arafat towards the two-state solution in which Palestine and Israel could coexist. But he grew disillusioned with a leader who tolerated corruption and ineptitude, marginalised some of the finest Palestinian minds, and who, in 1993, signed up to an agreement that Mr Said saw as certain disaster for the Palestinians, in that it offered the Israelis security while they colonised more land.

As the Oslo process dribbled wretchedly on, he kept up a barrage of pointed, hard-to-answer abuse. Sometimes it was fair to ask what alternative he was offering. But, in the end, his prophecies of doom came to pass. By then, perhaps despairing of a decent splitting of the land, Mr Said had taken to musing, in the last years of the leukaemia that took 12 years to kill him, on a single democratic state in which Jews and Arabs could live peaceably together.

He also turned to music, his great love (he was a gifted pianist). And, in contrast to the acrimonious conjunction of literature and politics, music and politics came happily together when he and his close friend, Daniel Barenboim, a renowned Israeli conductor with no time for political grandstanding, established a youth orchestra of Arabs and Israelis, and Mr Barenboim held master classes in the occupied West Bank.

A legion of friends notwithstanding, Mr Said always saw himself as an outsider, drawn to minorities and losers. He had, wrote Hanan Ashrawi, one of those fine Palestinians who has been pushed to one side by the Arafat regime, “a gentle identification with the oppressed, and an intimidating rage against the oppressor.”

Born in West Jerusalem, in a district that since 1948 has been part of Israel, he was brought up in Cairo and in the United States. He inherited an American passport from his father's service with the American army in the first world war, and was christened Edward in 1935 after the British prince of Wales who later, as Edward VIII, abdicated for love of an American. As a Christian-Palestinian he felt alienated in colonial Egypt; as an Arab he was an outsider in America. Gradually, though not fully until after the 1967 war in which Israel occupied what remained of Palestine, he began to feel the “desolation of being without a country or place to return to.”

A scrapper, too
And this remained with him, as he began his long fight for justice for his people, a people who, as he wrote, have been “excluded, denied the right to have a history of their own”. He was a humanist, which he defined as using “one's mind historically and rationally for the purpose of reflective understanding”. He was also, from time to time, a scrapper, letting loose blasts of over-the-top polemic.

In the end, nothing worked. The current American administration sometimes says reasonable things about Palestine, though usually in made-in-Israel terms, but it has never followed them through. A couple of months ago, Edward Said wrote sadly in the Los Angeles Times: “We are in for many more years of turmoil and misery in the Middle East, where one of the main problems is, to put it as plainly as possible, American power. What America refuses to see clearly, it can hardly hope to remedy.”
 
Edward Said is the greatest enemy of the Palestinian Christian people, and other Christian Middle Easterners, including thier northern cousins, the Maronite Lebanese, who came from them. Many, many problems for this dwindiling minority, which has halved over the last 50 years, have come from the Arab belief that Christians are Imperial stooges. His Orientalisim is nothing better then a collection of pre-Doom smack talk, his politics blinded him as an academian.
I typically do not like talking bad about the dead, but Edward Said is a major reason the Humantiies has started to have more in common with QuakeCon then anything else.
 
No offense, CC, but you're really hard to take seriously. I mean, is the entire world really this black-and-white for you?
 
No, not at all. I just don't like people using the excuse "both sides are evil" as a reason not to do anything in a given situation. What to do can be blurry, but doing nothing is *much* worse then doing nothing in every situation.

I am young, Ill probably get past the fanatisim of some of my beliefs with age. Have patience, and try not to point out the sill naivete of some of my beliefs with such short posts that just get me angry.

But seriously, does anyone take Edward Said seriously as an academian anymore? No. His "academic" works are polemic and often silly, without real facts backing anything up.
 
ConstinpatedCraprunner said:
No, not at all. I just don't like people using the excuse "both sides are evil" as a reason not to do anything in a given situation. What to do can be blurry, but doing nothing is *much* worse then doing nothing in every situation.

I agree with you there, but that doesn't mean you have to pretend the situation is black-and-white just to get people to do something, that just breeds extremism, and that rarely solved anything.

I am young, Ill probably get past the fanatisim of some of my beliefs with age. Have patience, and try not to point out the sill naivete of some of my beliefs with such short posts that just get me angry.

*bows* Sorry.
 
Too bad he's passed onto the other side now. Even though there are the ones who disagree with Said, you gotta admit that he did break some major boundaries in his work. And if you don't believe in Orientalism, think again.
 
So you're saying that the European misconceptions of the Middle East and Asia during colonializing times are just made up? Did the Europeans view the rest of the world through rose-tinted glasses, or were they all clairvoyant? Of course they were biased, and of course Orientalism existed.

Think again.
 
Results of Thinking Again:

Edward Said was wrong. Most of the time.

Ever seen "Russian Ark"? I think that orientalisim never went past the idea that democracy was not an important part of Eastern society; in some situations it was less.

For the most part, "Orientalisim" only happenend in areas of Africa where people lived off of the excuses of slavery, and often ideas that the Africans where crazy where built off of some pretty strange (read genocidal, tyrranical weirdos) like the Mahdi.

Truth is that with the exception of the uber-nationalists, scholarly work of the period was superb. Anyone with any understanding of the East, particularly the Christian east will know that much of the best work comes from Germany, from the 19th century, home of "Oreintalisim", and that Edward Said was basically suffering from Stockholm syndrome.
 
Ozrat, was the Communist ideal wrong? At it's very base, the idea behind "Imperialisim" was spreading democratic and capitalist values. Basically, it was communisim with the goals inverted.

A signifigant amount of the time, Imperialisim had a positive effect, particularly in the hands of the British- India, South Africa (they tried to get rid of Aphartied, too. rascist indeed), Egypt before several modern incidents, even Canada and America.

Edward Said was baised, polemic and a smack-talker. THere was some form of Orientalisim, but nowhere near anything Said describes.
 
And you, a young adolescent growing up in a Western society, would be able to judge this better than Said, somebody who grew up under some influences of Orientalism?

Re-read my last post. I didn't say anything about government types or anything of that matter. I just said that Orientalism did in fact occur because of the misconceptions that Europeans had about other cultures and societies. And it wasn't limited to Africa at all. It happened everywhere that Europeans settled and/or colonized. Just read the journals of the explorers and colonizers.

You need to realize that even though one side may have biases, so does the other side. There are no sides without any biases. So stop saying that people who don't share your viewpoint are biased!
 
True Ozrat, but Said's writing does not even attempt to be unbaised. The goal is to be unbaiesed, even if that is impossible to achive. Said attempts to get rid of that goal.

Said was mentally screwed. Read about his childhood, and then try to understand his defense of Islam.
 
It seems that according to you everybody who tries to defend Islam was mentally screwed up in their childhood. Please don't bring in personal attacks to these people, especially deceased ones.

The whole point of an argument is to present a bias. Not having a bias is not having a debate but rather showing both sides of the story. Orientalism is only showing one side beacause the other side is dominant and naturalized, so it deserves to be biased.
 
I think that we need to show each other a bit more courtesy these days, actually.

There is something to be said for both your arguments. To be completely unbiased, is not to have a debate. One needs to have an opinion or a position in any debate. In that sense, Said could be credited for challenging a dominant view.

On the other hand, failing to consider the other side of the debate and arguing only for the point of argument raises other problems with the credibility of the argument. One can, by being polemical or by being too controversial slant an argument for motivations that are other than logical or pursuit of truth. For example one may be biased for political reasons. This would also contradict good argument.
 
Of course I realize that any worthwhile argument does acknowledge the other viewpoint, but in cases like this that other viewpoint is the dominant side. I think it's safe to assume that we don't need to argue for that here.

I've written several research papers over the last couple of years in my unversity experience and I've yet to get lower than a B- on my work. That's an achievement for any student, but for an engineering student? That's incredible! You see, we're not well-known for our english skills. Honestly, I wouldn't be suprized if Nuclear Wolf ends up to be one in real life!
 
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