F3 ideas by a former Orderite

[Sirren67]

1) ezk, your post is a very good one, its different from the usual ones and it's practicaly a game document in itself. WELL done.

2) Please folks, let's stick to the U.S.A setting. Fallout1 was a wikipedia of american 1950/60s science fiction. This is one of the aspects of Fallout that made me love it the most. Come on, do you imagine the Original Vault Dweller fighting the regulators in the Boneyard of Borgone (some 1 k people village admist the mountains south of Turin)... Naaa, let's stick to L.A.
I say let's invent something different... Or let's go on exploiting the fiction of that period, IF we want something Falloutish.

3) Ashmo wrote:

(imagining someone wield two longswords has always made my head hurt anyway -- that's possible with arming swords if you train A LOT, but ambidextrous or not, you CAN'T control two longswords unless you have Wrists Of Steel and lightning-fast reflexes).

(Sorry, I like to be a smartass...)
Actually medium age longsword weighted about 1,2 gk, and the weight decreased during Renaissance. Around 1600/50 the medium weight was about 0,8 kg. There are a few rare sets of paired longswords known. The hilts and guards of some of those weapons are shaped to allow the wielder to sheathe both of them into the same scabbard. Anyway, the use of such a set of weapons DID require the wielder to actually be ambidestrous... And as far as the fighting technique goes... It's still a mistery.

 

[citizenkhan]

It was much more common to wield a main-gauche - what we would call a parrying dagger - in combination with a saber or similar backsword, than to wield two long-bladed swords. Also, Sirren, your terminology isn't accurate in this instance: I believe Ashmo was talking about a "great sword," or what most people call a "broad sword," of the middle ages. The end of the Renaissance virtually eliminated this weapon, because the advances of armor and gunpowder weapons oblivated the effectiveness of a 3.5 pound (1.58 kg) slashing weapon.

 

[citizenkhan]

For anyone who wants to get into a dumb debate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greatsword

 

[Ashmo]

3) Ashmo wrote:

(imagining someone wield two longswords has always made my head hurt anyway -- that's possible with arming swords if you train A LOT, but ambidextrous or not, you CAN'T control two longswords unless you have Wrists Of Steel and lightning-fast reflexes).

(Sorry, I like to be a smartass...)
Actually medium age longsword weighted about 1,2 gk, and the weight decreased during Renaissance. Around 1600/50 the medium weight was about 0,8 kg. There are a few rare sets of paired longswords known. The hilts and guards of some of those weapons are shaped to allow the wielder to sheathe both of them into the same scabbard. Anyway, the use of such a set of weapons DID require the wielder to actually be ambidestrous... And as far as the fighting technique goes... It's still a mistery.

Actually you're not being a smartass.

The weight didn't simply decrease during the Renaissance, the entire design of the swords changed more towards what we know as Rapiers.
During duels it was customary to use two rapiers -- one for attacking and one for blocking. That had nothing to do with ambidexterity as it was common enough to be explained in several fighting manuals.

Attacking with two weapons is simply not possible if you want to have any form of accuracy and use anything larger than a railroad spike (and go "Zergling" on your opponent). Ambidexterity means that you can use both hands equally well, not that you have two conciousnesses, which would be required to concentrate on both hands -- this is a common misconception.

Also, anything larger than a dagger would throw you way off balance -- not only because of the weight but more so because of the weight distribution: the balance may be close to your fist if it's a good sword (unlikely in a post-nuclear environment) but that only means half the weight isn't. The longer and heavier swords get, the worse the loss of accuracy in swinging them (simultaneously). It's a matter of leverage, too.

There's a reason two-handed swords are called TWO-handed. A longsword (90 cm blade length in case you're going by different definitions) is also widely known as a "hand-and-a-half" because it requires a little more than just one hand to be controlled fully.
Next you're going to claim one could use a twelve-foot pole one-handed without any loss of accuracy whatsoever (the pole being irritated by things in the environment -- like other poles, enemies or blades -- included).

Heavy or not, wielding two longswords requires A LOT of practice -- even more so than mastering a combination of a longsword and a secondary. Dual-wielding anything beyond arming swords (60 cm blade length) or rapiers is asking for trouble, especially if you think you can attack with both simultaneously (which also has the neat side-effect of leaving your guard wide open and you way off balance).

Even if -- in some mysterious way -- you figure out how to attack with two cumbersome weapons simultaneously, chances are good the other guy only armed with ONE weapon and a side-arm (shield, buckler or dagger) will ruin your day nevertheless.

[/derail]

 

[Roshambo]

To paraphrase Ashmo:

No Drizzt Do'Urden shit.

 

[ezk]

thanks to all who've so far contributed to this thread. now let's get right to it.

I think the whole "dual wield" issue has be dealt with sufficiently so I won't go into that anymore.

I think i need to explain what i mean by moving on from North America. I still think the character should be american, a descendant of the hero from fallout 2 and related to vault 13/ arroyo. I think the game should start out in north america, probably in the very settlement that the chosen one helped to create with the GECK. However what will happen is a series of events will unfold ( use your imagination for the possible plot lines) that will drive our new hero onto another continent for say, the 2nd half of the game.

I kinda like the idea of possibly moving away from the US later in the game. [that's why I didn't go into story possibilities since I'm not that creative there. I used to write some fan-fiction but that stuff sucked so badly I had to come to the realization that it was no good.]
a risk would of course be to mess with the overall feel of the game here by suddenly throwing the player in a different enviroment an' such. Fallout outside of North America would just need to be a lot different to make it work for us non-Americans.

OMG, it's Bane! Hi, Bane, and welcome back. Be sure to stop by at the Order, because there are more oldies there than you think.

hey Ratty, long time no see my friend. I'll stop by TO later to see who's still around then...

 

[Jarno Mikkola]

The 2D vs. 3D and cameras rotating problem is easy to solve, just put the control to the mouse wheel, most mouses to day have wheels so, problem solved.(of course there should be return button and...)

Armor
...
- I'd like to see seperate pieces for: Torso, Legs, Hands (Gloves) and Head, as this adds to the factor that you can personlize your character.
- a small range of color choices perhaps?

It would be better, to my point of view, that the Armor would be constructed of use based parts, = a helm for head protection and maybe included gas protection device(from a scarf to a gas mask), armor for a basic body defence, jump jet for jumping around(please don't comment on this one), and a alignment identification item, it can be a simple badge, a banner or something like a fettercoated cape for an evil jesters club of damnation and fire. ...

ps CITIZENKHAN don't double post.

- notes, all the jesters in post-apocalyptic world, are evil.
Just like all the jedies in starwars, evil they are.