Fallout 1-2-3 related game nostalgia/subjectivity

krtecek007

First time out of the vault
Probably unlike others on this forum, my game nirvana is not connected to any of these F1-2 games (although I enjoy them a lot), on my gaming pedestal is sitting for many years Ultima Underworld 2, which I played during my first years on high-school, on (at that time very powerful machine) 386 with some VGA monitor and cranky speakers (and boy, I miss those great times!).
I can spend endless hours enumerating it's perfect features, how the graphic was (hey, still is!) great and how the story/dialogs is fulfilling. And I would also be very disappointed if someone would like to change it to some different game concept (e.g. iso-metric view with turn-based combat ;-).

But as they say, you never step twice into same river; everything is subjective and changes constantly. That same wonderful feelings of game joy when I originally played UU2 will never come back (even if I try to play it through some emulators) and there is probably no other game that will bring same (or closely similar) joy.
Meaning, the game experience that you had while playing e.g. F1-2 first (or second/third) time will never come back with another game as it was not only about the game, but also about your surroundings, family, weather, girlfriend and who knows what else (my mother will definitely not yell at me now to clean my room while I guiltily reach for next level or kill that bastard…).
These memories are part of what we remember best from our past and there is very little that can be changed about that.

So you evolve (as the world around you), you add to your previous experiences lot of other new ones and many other influences. There will be many external attempts to change your point-of-view by some new/different inputs, but still F1-2/UU2/Pong/Arkanoid/System Shock/Diablo/Deus EX/Crysis/Bishock/ME/… will be always best to you no matter what ( you remember when your grandma is saying that the grass was greener in her youth, right ?).

Conclusion
For those who are locked in F-world and F1-2 is their mythical kalokagatia, all attempts to revive the franchise will look like blunt desecration of their idols, no matters what other will deliver/say/dispute, there will be always something to complain about (and I’m very interested in that Fallout MMO that will be created by the original team, because they surely also evolved during those years and who know in which direction ;-)
For others who "just" like the F-world and do not dwell endlessly in its “river”, the rants of previous group about F3 will look like nitpicking, problem-chasing and shi&$ing on very good game that is valid successor of previous parts.

p.s. side note, at least you, true F-idolaters; you have huge fan-base with many mods to soak again and again into the F-universe, unlike the lingering world of UU2 ;-) Not mentioning that “somebody” is making new installation for you!!!
 
Not all love for the original Fallouts is based on nostalgic bliss. While nostalgia plays a factor in my love for the old games, it's not the reason I find the third offering a little disappointing. I went into Fallout 3 ready to embrace a new era of Vault Dwelling greatness... but what I found was ... a decent game, but with its share of problems.

The third game is great, sure. But for me, it's the same transition from Morrowind to Oblivion. For Oblivion they took their own franchise and dumbed it down to a point where it was almost unrecognisable. Still a fun game in its own right, but compared to the previous entry, it was incredibly shallow. It's the same with Fallout 3 for me. It's become that you really don't have to think very much to play it. Maybe thinking was optional in Fallout 1 and 2, but if you looked deep enough into the game, it allowed you to be sucked in. When I try to look deeper into Fallout 3, I see good intentions, but not much more.

While F3 is fun, it's not this super-amazing game all the mainstream reviewers are making it out to be. They only reason they're scoring it so high is because they're the same bunch of people who let the hype give Oblivion scores in the mid 90s out of 100. Fallout 3 is better than Oblivion, yet it's basically the same game, so it stands to reason they have to score it higher than Oblivion.

I stuck my thoughts on why Fallout 3 is not as good as all the reviewers are making out over on the Hellforge over at GameRiot the other day. It's just a quick list of why I feel Fallout 3 doesn't deserve a 9+ score.

Also: don't hold your breath on that MMO. Interplay seem to file for bankruptcy twice a week.
 
Maybe FO3 is a great game on its own, as an open-world FPS/adventure with rpg elements.
But if its to be judged as a fallout RPG it dissapoints
 
Lol, I consider my self at least semi-intelligent but the word kalokagatia totally took me for a headspin. Now that I know what it means though... cool...(looked it up)

Yeah I'm the same way with my own set of specific nostalgia games.

Like Ol'Will Rogers said "Things aint the way they used to be and probably never was."
 
Erny said:
Maybe FO3 is a great game on its own, as an open-world FPS/adventure with rpg elements.
But if its to be judged as a fallout RPG it dissapoints

That's how I feel too.

Listen, there are very few people on this forum who are saying that Fallout 3 is such a shitpile that it makes them want to hitch a plane ride over to Bethesda's offices and take a rusty cheese grater to Todd Howard's face. I personally have put around 70 hours into it so far and I do think it's a good game with Fallout flavor. Obviously I like it or I wouldn't have spent that much time playing it.

However, I believe that aside from its Fallout paint job there is little to say that this is a true Fallout game at heart. Sure they got the look down, and they obviosly cared about staying reasonably close to the canon etc.

However, Fallout 3 has made me realize that these things alone are not what made Fallout so great when I played it for the first time. To me that is better than average writing, a greater sense of the weight of my actions and a sense of twisted ethics that isn't as simple as, "You can do good things or bad things. Period."

Personally I feel that these things are completely absent in Fallout 3, which makes me hesitant to call it a great Fallout game instead of just a great game on its own.
 
krtecek007 said:
But as they say, you never step twice into same river; everything is subjective and changes constantly. That same wonderful feelings of game joy when I originally played UU2 will never come back (even if I try to play it through some emulators) and there is probably no other game that will bring same (or closely similar) joy.

I recently replayed both games, starting (by pure coincidence) just before the announcement of F3. The games are still good. Perhaps you should install "some emulators" and revisit UU2. I've done this with nearly every "old favorite" game I played, from Quarantine to Descent 2, and the classics are called "classics" for a deeper reason than nostalgia.

I'm not saying this disqualifies all of your point here, just that this argument "My favorite game probably wouldn't be good if I played it again now" doesn't necessarily apply to everybody. If I could go into my head and forget every dialog tree in Fallout 1, I'd do it right now so I could play it again.

You can step in the same river twice. I've done it both literally and figuratively. :)
 
well, it´s like with the books or movies, if you watch them again(and again, and again), you can sometimes spot new things and enjoy it from different angles
but sometimes it´s get boring - you just exploit all the posibilites and you play/read/watch it from pure nostalgia (and yes i understand that for some, F1-2 will NEVER get boring...).

so if there would be some mental option to forget everything and play(and savour) again untouched, that would be perfect
 
krtecek007 said:
SF1-2/UU2/Pong/Arkanoid/System Shock/Diablo/Deus EX/Crysis/Bishock/ME/… will be always best to you no matter what

I lol'd. Hard.


krtecek007 said:
But as they say, you never step twice into same river; everything is subjective and changes constantly. That same wonderful feelings of game joy when I originally played UU2 will never come back (even if I try to play it through some emulators) and there is probably no other game that will bring same (or closely similar) joy.
Meaning, the game experience that you had while playing e.g. F1-2 first (or second/third) time will never come back with another game as it was not only about the game, but also about your surroundings, family, weather, girlfriend and who knows what else (my mother will definitely not yell at me now to clean my room while I guiltily reach for next level or kill that bastard…).
These memories are part of what we remember best from our past and there is very little that can be changed about that.

I routinely play through my old favorites; and they haven't lost one ounce of that magic. Hell, I was playing through Zelda: A link to the past when I was five. Fifteen years later, I can fire it up and still have a blast.

krtecek007 said:
For those who are locked in F-world and F1-2 is their mythical kalokagatia, all attempts to revive the franchise will look like blunt desecration of their idols, no matters what other will deliver/say/dispute, there will be always something to complain about

No.

Sequels to your favorites CAN capture the experience of the originals, even when making the transition to 3d. Take a look at Super Mario 64, or Zelda: OOT.

Fallout 3 is an excellent example of how to rape and dumb down a franchise (what bioshit did for the shock series); instead of expanding upon existing content, and creating a memorable experience that remains true to the series.

Beth completely missed the boat on what makes fallout "fallout". THAT's why we're "nitpicking"; not because of bugs, or the transition to 3d. Fallout 2 was insanely buggy and missing loads of content... yet it's still being patched/fixed by the community. Ten years later.

Do you think fallout 3 will get the same treatment as F1/2 ten years from now? Hell no.
 
krtecek007 said:
Do you think fallout 3 will get the same treatment as F1/2 ten years from now? Hell no.

yes, but not from NMA, also fallout 3 had a lot less bugs to begin with anyway V :D V
 
Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude said:
shinymans said:
yes, but not from NMA, also fallout 3 had a lot less bugs to begin with anyway V :D V

You're kidding right?


Right???

Please tell me you're kidding.

No he is right, aslong as Bethesda hurry up and release the Fo3 editor. I can guarentee you that the Oblivion community will still be going strong in 10 years time, aslong as the PC games market continues growing at a consistent rate. Vanilla Fallout 3 is a better game than Oblivion, and has endless modding potential so it stands to reason that it will spawn a diehard community.

It's not because of the quality of the original game mind, its the talented modders that keep these games alive.
 
popej said:
Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude said:
shinymans said:
yes, but not from NMA, also fallout 3 had a lot less bugs to begin with anyway V :D V

You're kidding right?


Right???

Please tell me you're kidding.

No he is right, aslong as Bethesda hurry up and release the Fo3 editor. I can guarentee you that the Oblivion community will still be going strong in 10 years time, aslong as the PC games market continues growing at a consistent rate. Vanilla Fallout 3 is a better game than Oblivion, and has endless modding potential so it stands to reason that it will spawn a diehard community.

It's not because of the quality of the original game mind, its the talented modders that keep these games alive.


Wrong popej, Fallout 3 will be forgotten in a year when Fallout 4 will come out and the modders all turn to it. That's how it will be and a good thing too, as Fallout 3 deserves to be buried and forgotten.
 
krtecek007 said:
But as they say, you never step twice into same river; everything is subjective and changes constantly. That same wonderful feelings of game joy when I originally played UU2 will never come back (even if I try to play it through some emulators) and there is probably no other game that will bring same (or closely similar) joy.
That's sad :( .

I played Fallout 1 less than a week ago and I liked it as much as usually. Actually, I like Fallout 1 even more since I discovered modding and NMA.

I remember having a similar problem to yours when I tried to replay Ultima 7, which is a shame because I couldn't finish it when I played it first time because for some weird reason the version that I bought lacked .pdf manuals.

krtecek007 said:
These memories are part of what we remember best from our past and there is very little that can be changed about that.
What? To be honest, last week was pretty awful. Also, I would rate Fallout 1 7/10 just as when I played it first.

shinymans said:
but not from NMA, also fallout 3 had a lot less bugs to begin with anyway V :D V
Frankly, I saw videos with FINO3 glitches and they are pathetic - Fallout could have some unpolished quests, but it never had growing floating corpses, flying deathclaws quicksands and other "immersive" stuff.
 
I will actually laugh hard if Beth releases FO3 editor as some kind of software, on a special CD, or for special download, for, say $30 apiece =)
 
The problem with Fallout 3 as-is: minimal replay value

The flaws with the current implementation of SPECIAL and the ease of raising many of your skills to max level make more than 2 or 3 playthroughs kinda useless. Unless you purposefully ignore certain skills or bobbleheads, its way to easy to turn that Melee / Big Guns / Science guy into a Melee / Energy Weapons / Unarmed / Science / Lockpick / Sneak / Barter/ Speech guy. This wouldn't really be an issue if we had skill caps moved to 200 or 300 with the same increased point cost for 101+ as FO2. At least then you could only reasonable be "master" of one or two skills.

The only things you can really do different are Karmic. "Is this a good or evil playthrough?" Right there that just limited me to 3 playthroughs:

1st Time: [spoiler:cd23fa8329] The shortest playthrough since the main quest is too goddamn short. Took like 8 hours to beat =( [/spoiler:cd23fa8329]

2nd Time: My good character

3rd Time: My evil character.


I'm not saying FO3 is a bad game. I actually like it (mostly). I just feel like once I find all the side areas I won't have ANY motivation to go through it again. [/spoiler]
 
I never played Fallout or Fallout 2 until July/August this year.

Comparatively, Fallout 3 is an unmitigated disaster.

Non-comparatively eh it's pretty good.
 
I played Fallout 1 and 2 after oblivion, i'm not a nostalgia addict, and i think that F3 is crap compared to the first two games. Actaully i think F3 is crap on its own, well, maybe reasonable crap, but crap nonetheless.
 
Nostalgia isn't a factor for me in this instance because I only played Fallout for the first time a few years ago. Not nearly long enough for the rose-tinted glasses.

I played Fallout 3 and uninstalled it after about 10-15 hours... similar time it took me to get bored of Oblivion. I've got way way more hours into the original. And it's still installed on my machine.

Nostalgia didn't keep me from loving the new King's Bounty. Which was developed 18 years later by a different company.

Nostalgia isn't keeping me from being excited about the new Splatterhouse and Bionic Commando games. Hell, they even remade the original Bionic Commando in traditional sidescrolling style.

How about the new Syndicate game? I don't even know anything about what they're doing to it and I'm excited.

Nostalgia didn't keep me from being excited about the new Shadowrun, though it ended up sucking.

The new Wasteland?

Descent?

Wolfenstein?

Doom?

Prince of Persia?

Starcraft?

Diablo?

Let's count spritual successors too, because they have the same expectations leveled against them.

Didn't keep me from enjoying Supreme Commander. Or Fallout.
 
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