Fallout 2 Restoration Project 2.0 (Unofficial FO2 Expansion)

[carpediem99]

How do I disarm the SHI-Submarine? Can't find a solution to this anywhere and I'm getting pretty desperate. Somebody please help me.

Talk to the scientist on the sub and 'help' him configure the computer.

 

[.Pixote.]

In the NCR police station, some "wanted" posters were placed as scenery (or at least, they don't have a script attached). The description for these posters is unnecessarily alarming...

Wanted Sign – there were two choices, keep the wanted sign as is, but don’t apply the script (as a form of decoration for the police building), or remake a new sign with new generic description, such as -“a sketched portrait of a fugitive wanted by the local authorities”…I have no problems building a new sign.

Scroll blocker issues prevent accessing the exit grid: rndholy2, liberty...tribe02...hubologist2

Tribe02 – this and a few other maps (not built by me) were never intending to use the scroll blockers to restrict map movement (you would need to speak with their makers for further infomation). I got the impression that Mash’s resolution patch and the map numbers within were going to be the method to restrict map movement. It might be preferable that RP 2.1 removes the choice to install the resolution patch and makes it compulsory. I too found them bizarre (sometimes incomplete), but left them in because of the reasons above.

Hubologist2 – strange map, it seems to be incomplete and crashes when you attempt to test it, I don’t know what its story is (obviously hubologist related), but it looks like it has plenty of potential to be an interesting location. It should be removed from the project (folder) until finished.

Liberty - this map is yet to be implemented (to my knowledge).

The rndholy2 map also doesn't have any blue exit grid markers on the exit grids of either level, meaning the exit grid doesn't show up on the ingame PibBoy map.

Rndholy2 – this map is fundamentally an original Black Isle map (except for the grass, bones, general mess). It seems that different map builders at Black Isle approached the maps with different levels of detail, some used the blue exit grid markers, and other didn’t. Because it doesn’t adversely affect the game it was over looked, I’ll check each map to ensure they are there. Consistency is important.

In general I continue to enjoy the look of the updated maps, but had a problem on the first level of Vault 15; there are too many animations running at once here (probably the monitors, especially when the force field is on), with the result that no one but the player-character was moving during combat.

It isn’t the dreaded animate forever script (that has affected some of the other busier maps) because there are none, or few animated objects on this map. Basically the maps can’t play too many animations at the one time, until someone cracks this problem - 20 will remain the limit.

Thanks Endocore your insights are always very useful, I hope these finds are going up on the Wiki thread for Killap to check.

That said, I enjoy Pixote's modifications of the original maps. They make a lot of sense and give Fallout 2 a much needed facelift.

Thank you, but I would like to see the original maps as the first choice and the new maps as an option in the installer…one day.

 

[kalervi]

Talk to the scientist on the sub and 'help' him configure the computer.

Wtf? There's no one in there. I'm alone in there, unable to do anything, and my character refuses to leave the sub before disarming it. This is just bullshit.

 

[Luigibacsi]

Hey Ravager!
I like the layout of your EPA vision, yours look more like people actually could take tours there. Pixotes looks more like a maintance alley with all the pipes and stuff.
They are different in style, and I like both, but I prefer yours.

 

[Psihotik]

Found one strange glitch : Bill, the trader at Abbey, has some messed up dialog tree. When I want to buy the armor for Marcus, the game treats my answer as a no, but when I say something like "let's get out of here Marcus" the trader takes my 3000 cash and gives the armor to Marcus. Plus, dialog between my character is mixed up with his, e.g. my character says a line that Bill should say. (using 2.0.2e)

 

[killap]

I'm back from a week of "glorious" RL work. yay?


@kalervi
How did you get there? Did you sneak on? Did you convince the motor boat guard to let you go alone? If no Shi crew came with you, you must have done something of this nature.

Anyway, there are many ways to disarm the sub. Did you explore the sub? Interact with the computers? Look at the torpedoes?


@everyone

I sense concern about the new maps. Understand that not everyone can be pleased. While making the maps an option in the installer would be the best thing to do, I can't justify the time. Having two sets of maps would be difficult to manage and I'm not willing to do it. I've put in too many thousands of hours (I'm serious about this total) in my F2 modding over these 5 years to waste time with that. I don't even have enough time now to finish up aspects I do want.

Perhaps the most conservative option would have been to not have used Pixote's maps in the first place. I couldn't justify that though, since he spent too much time making them to just throw it all away. I consider them an immense improvement over the original. Many of the old maps lacked atmosphere and these maps address that. It's not the fault of the original devs though. They couldn't afford to spend hundreds of hours mapping.

You're all obviously free to make your own versions of everything, but it might not be worth your time in the end. How about this: rather than ranting about how much one hates an aspect of the maps, make a thread about what you want altered. Saying there are too many pipes isn't constructive. Tell where there are too many pipes and describe how it could be improved, without tearing the entire map apart. I'm willing to compromise.

@Psihotik
Yeah, it's a bug.

 

[Lexx]

I like most of the changes to the original maps. In fact, some inspired me to change my own mapping style a bit here and there. Sometimes, I think it's a bit overdone, but in most cases, I really like it. As example, I like the minor changes to the NCR or the changes in the raider location. The Frisco docks are looking great too, etc. pp.

What I don't really like are some of the encounter changes. But this is not only pixotes fault it's also in the original game. Due to the fact that they have put buildings, tents and other stuff into the encounter maps, it feels to me - while traveling over the world - as if there are houses and tents and caravans and camps and what not every few miles. Because in nearly every encounter, I can see those. That's why I still think, that the Fallout 1 encounters have been much better and creative.

 

[BigBadPig]

Hi all!
Sorry I'm asking my question here, though it certainly does concern the Restoration Project. The deal is I'd very much like to play the RP along with Magnus' Weapons Redone installed. And it seems the man no longer visits his mod's forum. Not trying, fates forbid, to insult anyone; I'm just a little bit out of patience: can't wait to combine the two great mods. I did try to combine them myself... mgm, let's not ask questions on who won, 'cause it surely wasn't me.
So - could anyone help me? I doubt I'm the only one who wants those mods together.

Apologies for the double post, however, I sincerely think many folks would like the answer.

 

[Darek]

I found what is crashing the EPA maps if you haven't installed the hi-res patch. It's the start hex (or map_ent_tile) that is wrong without it. Both EPASL and EPAX have a value around 33000.
Set it to the default of 20100 in the Mapper or by hex editing will make them playable.


Also, I have a problem with this rug as you can see, and it's not an issue with the flags.

The problem comes from that blue hexagon that I'm pointing at (barely visible). It's too much in the middle and anyone standing on it to the left, can't be interacted with.

Opening the file ARCANM07.FRM in frame animator and moving the frame to the right (so the blue hexagon goes to the left) like this, stops the rug from interfering.

Every map of this type has to be repositioned on every map it's on afterward, though.

 

[Tolknaz]

I agree with Killap. I'm not yet far into RP 2.0 (Waiting for 2.1 for now), but so far Pixotes maps are a considerable improvement over the originals. To call the maps somehow worse than originals only implies blindness.

 

[Badgermilk]

The new maps are amazing in my opinion, I would very much NOT want to go back to the old ones.

If everyone that dislikes them comes here saying they are crap, I figured someone that does enjoy them should come and say they are great.

Also, I would rather have the modding time availible for people involved in this spent on new features / bug fixes then redoing the maps.

 

[Travesty]

Personally I love the enhaced maps. They do change the experience when playing for the better. .Pixote. has done a great job.

 

[carpediem99]

The new maps are amazing in my opinion, I would very much NOT want to go back to the old ones.

If everyone that dislikes them comes here saying they are crap, I figured someone that does enjoy them should come and say they are great.

Also, I would rather have the modding time availible for people involved in this spent on new features / bug fixes then redoing the maps.

+1

 

[Baizhao]

Perhaps the most conservative option would have been to not have used Pixote's maps in the first place. I couldn't justify that though, since he spent too much time making them to just throw it all away. I consider them an immense improvement over the original. Many of the old maps lacked atmosphere and these maps address that. It's not the fault of the original devs though. They couldn't afford to spend hundreds of hours mapping.

Can I please, please ask you to somehow revert (or otherwise change) the EPA elevators so that they'd work with old (1.2RP) ddraw.dll? Because I just can't fix that problem, and other than that and the inability for anyone to use Hunting Rifle and Sniper Rifle my game is fine.

I would appreciate that immensely. Thank you.

 

[Grunter]

I'm back from a week of "glorious" RL work. yay?

@everyone

I sense concern about the new maps. Understand that not everyone can be pleased. While making the maps an option in the installer would be the best thing to do, I can't justify the time. Having two sets of maps would be difficult to manage and I'm not willing to do it. I've put in too many thousands of hours (I'm serious about this total) in my F2 modding over these 5 years to waste time with that. I don't even have enough time now to finish up aspects I do want.

Perhaps the most conservative option would have been to not have used Pixote's maps in the first place. I couldn't justify that though, since he spent too much time making them to just throw it all away. I consider them an immense improvement over the original. Many of the old maps lacked atmosphere and these maps address that. It's not the fault of the original devs though. They couldn't afford to spend hundreds of hours mapping.

You're all obviously free to make your own versions of everything, but it might not be worth your time in the end. How about this: rather than ranting about how much one hates an aspect of the maps, make a thread about what you want altered. Saying there are too many pipes isn't constructive. Tell where there are too many pipes and describe how it could be improved, without tearing the entire map apart. I'm willing to compromise.

Hi Killap, good to see you back.

My personal concern with the new maps are nothing to do with the visuals. It seems that a lot of the additions have an effect on the gameplay. The one that concerns me the most is that it now seems much harder to target individual corpses to loot them. I can hover over a visually unobstructed corpse but the pointer does not change to the "take" pointer. Also, overlapping corpses seem much more difficult to target.

I fully appreciate your comments about maintainng two sets of maps, I am sure most people are more than grateful for the effort you have already put into this game. However, if form is going to take preference over function then I personally feel that that is a bit of a retrograde step.

I am looking forward to the new 2.1 and the edited maps, hopefully 2.1 will alleviate the concerns I have mentioned. If not I guess it will be RP 1.2 for any future replays

 

[phobos2077]

I have changed the script for Cash tender in Redding. Originally he sells nothing and offers 4000 cash but only once. It never refreshes.
Now, every 1 game week, everything you sold him disappears, and money is back at full. In addition, the amount of money he has depends on player's current level:

if (lvl<=5) then price:=2000; else
if ((lvl>=6) and (lvl<=10)) then price:=4000; else
if ((lvl>=11) and (lvl<=18)) then price:=6000; else
if (lvl>=19) then price:=8000;
stock_pid_qty(CashBox_Ptr,41,random(price-200,price+200))

I wonder if this script can be used in this mod of yours

 

[.Pixote.]

@ Darek - Thanks for the find, I will change the numbers and adjust the maps were the rugs are.

It seems that a lot of the additions have an effect on the gameplay. The one that concerns me the most is that it now seems much harder to target individual corpses to loot them. I can hover over a visually unobstructed corpse but the pointer does not change to the "take" pointer. Also, overlapping corpses seem much more difficult to target...However, if form is going to take preference over function then I personally feel that that is a bit of a retrograde step.

I understand completely, I personally haven’t had any problems looting bodies from these maps, but I do recognize that the grass makes it more difficult then before. One major problem with the engine is the bodies fall behind the scenery after death. It was always in the game, but the original maps were a lot barer so the instances were rarer. If people show me images of the affected areas then I am willing to take a lawnmower to the area and clean up some of the grasser spots, but pictures are essential. Fallout was never perfect to start with, and it never will be.

Not only were the scripts and coding going to be tested with this release, but the maps as well. I also don’t agree with form over function, but let’s strive for both - great function and great form.

 

[Grunter]

@ Darek - Thanks for the find, I will change the numbers and adjust the maps were the rugs are.

It seems that a lot of the additions have an effect on the gameplay. The one that concerns me the most is that it now seems much harder to target individual corpses to loot them. I can hover over a visually unobstructed corpse but the pointer does not change to the "take" pointer. Also, overlapping corpses seem much more difficult to target...However, if form is going to take preference over function then I personally feel that that is a bit of a retrograde step.

I understand completely, I personally haven’t had any problems looting bodies from these maps, but I do recognize that the grass makes it more difficult then before. One major problem with the engine is the bodies fall behind the scenery after death. It was always in the game, but the original maps were a lot barer so the instances were rarer. If people show me images of the affected areas then I am willing to take a lawnmower to the area and clean up some of the grasser spots, but pictures are essential. Fallout was never perfect to start with, and it never will be.

Not only were the scripts and coding going to be tested with this release, but the maps as well. I also don’t agree with form over function, but let’s strive for both - great function and great form.

Thanks for the scenery/corpse explanation. I doubt if images of where it happens are that useful, corpses are going to fall wherever.

I guess it will just end up as any other game, individuals will decide if the niggles outweight the benefits. Lots of people have commented favourably on your graphic additions so your work has obviously been worthwhile. I am looking forward to 2.1

 

[Endocore]

@Darek
That's some great work on finding the issue with the EPA surface maps, as well as the rug issue.

@phobos2077
That's a neat idea about basing the cash tender's bankroll on the player's level. His cash supply already replenishes, though, to randomly varying amounts (or at least it should, and does in my game). How long did you wait between visits? You have to give him some time.

@bug reports
I don't seem to ever get a chance to discuss combat implants with Painless Doc Johnson in Redding (my character knows about the implants and is able to discuss them with others, e.g. both docs in Vault City).

@mapping discussion

Speaking only for myself of course, all this map design talk is making it hard for me to follow the technical discussion of bugs and bug reports in this already massive 54-page thread. If it would be helpful, moderators should feel free to move the remainder of my post over to the "RP suggestions" thread in an attempt to move the whole discussion there rather than here in the bug report thread.

In regard to the RP's maps, I think there are three general questions that should be asked:

1) Do the maps complement the general mood or aesthetic style of the game?

I would answer "yes" to this question. I like .Pixote's updated maps, and in fact think they don't go far enough in the direction .Pixote took them. The wasteland of a ruined modern civilization should be full of all manner of mangled, useless junk mixed with overgrown weeds and bushes. The player should be tripping over piles of bricks and broken televisions at every turn, and running across not only ruined ancient buildings but the remains of more recent encampments of apocalypse survivors. I can certainly appreciate the aesthetic sense of those who have more of "Mad Max" vision of the wasteland, but on the other hand I think it's important to keep in mind that Max was wandering the barren deserts of Australia (which is a sparsely-populated and very under-developed continent) rather than the remains of the densely-populated and highly-developed lands of southern California.

2) Are there technical issues with the maps that interfere with the general functioning of the game?

The answer to this question is in some cases "yes," which presents great difficulties. Most of these issues are associated with the high-resolution mod, and perhaps there may have been some miscommunication over time between killap and his team-members resulting in mappers working on the assumption that the hi-res mod would be a requirement of the RP. The result is that there are several maps that now break the player's game (for example, coast5.map and rndholy2.map) due to scroll blocker settings, and several others that can't be used at all unless end-user modifications are made (namely, the EPA maps) by players running a game with original software/not using the hi-res mod. That seems to run contrary to the general "Restoration" spirit of killap's work. I'll restate what I said before, though, to avoid any confusion: I think the hi-res mod is a great thing, and I'm not at all criticizing any aspect of it. It's just that the mod isn't for me, and I don't want to be forced to choose between using the high-res mod or not using the RP (in which I am generally very interested).

The seriousness of this issue, however, varies depending on the particular end-user of the mod. For example I'm knowledgeable enough about FO2 modding to fix many of these problems for myself as I've encountered them, so to me it's not that big a deal. Others who are less knowledgeable, however, might be forced to simply abandon their game if "stuck" on a map they can't leave or be disappointed enough that they can't play some of the new content that they decide not to use the RP mod in the first place. Since at this time the RP is generally considered the "showcase mod" for the whole community, over time this may lead to a lower number of new people being drawn into the community than would otherwise be possible.

3) Do the maps enhance or interfere with the smooth flow of gameplay?

In regard to .Pixote's modifications, I would say that in retrospect it would have been better to build some new tile/scenery objects in the beginning with more thought given to setting various engine flags. For example, consider the grassy weeds added in abundance to many of the maps. Although these enhance the visual appeal of the maps, they tend to interfere with gameplay because they're regarded by the game engine as solid objects. This has the unfortunate effect that I've seen several cases where I'm standing one or two hexes away from an opponent, but must use five or six APs to navigate the grass objects so I can move next to the opponent to attack (I mostly play as a brawler/melee fighter character). On the other hand while this is occassionally frustrating, in general I think the benefit to game immersion provided by the visual "look" of the maps outweighs the occassional trouble caused by weeds or chairs that I must walk around rather than through.

Leaving the more recent update aside, some of the maps that have been with the RP for some time unfortunately followed and perhaps even amplified what was a bad design decision that consistently runs through the original FO2 maps as well--a claustrophobia-inducing "Jagged Alliance 2" approach to building design that often directly interferes with gameplay. For example, consider the Abbey maps. It's difficult to navigate the tiny rooms in the Abbey, and the stairwells are so small that each trip up or down a stairway necessitates several moments spent pushing party members out of the way to enter the next room. There are two ways of looking at this issue. In one sense the design of the Abbey maps is true to the design spirit of the original game maps, in that they too are claustrophobic in a way that interferes with smooth gameplay; I'm generally one of those cranky old-timers who thinks adherence to Fallout traditions is pretty important, so I can appreciate such an approach. On the other hand, though, just because a bad design decision was made by the original developers doesn't mean we should continue to make bad design decisions today just to remain consistent with every tradition.

In general, then, I'm pretty satisfied with the RP's maps in their current form. Aside from a few instances of incompatibility that may break the game for some players, if it were my project I wouldn't spend any more of my limited hobby time revising the maps while more pressing issues remain. Those who are unsatisfied with the maps always have the option to directly change them and this should in fact be encouraged--perhaps something even more interesting will result over time. Currently, though, "if it's not broke, don't fix it" would be my motto.

 

[thai1109]

A few minor things:
_ Broken Hills:
+ Eric (electric power quest): his description says "You see a greasy, sweating man". Should be "..sweating ghoul" instead.
+ Chad's door: It won't budge even with rocket launcher. Well, it was a "solid wooden door", and yes, there is wood that is as hard as steel. But if it's supposed like that then some comments such as "That doesn't even put a scratch on it" would clear thing up.

_ Redding:
+ Frog Morton quest: Sometimes one of the gangsters spawned behind the northern fence and was unreachable. Luckily i have some rockets, but a melee char will have a hard time.

_ Just want to confirm, while I'm addicted to Jet, using Jet antidote do not make the antidote vanish. But if i'm not addicted, it does. Is it supposed to be like that? It makes no sense, and makes it's way easy to take advantage of Jet.