Fallout 3. Turn based or not turn based.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gustav
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Sorry, but I must disagree. A game that just simply throws out vital aspects to the system is hardly something I'd consider "good", much less a "successor". Gold Box, Silver Box, etc. tried to keep true as possible to the flavor of P&P and didn't have that "crappy one-trick pony to win" aspect of the IE games, and had a LOT better balance. The Infinity Engine just decided to throw many of those aspects of the game out the window and turn it into a putzy little half-Fallout half-Diablo game. About the only relevent thing about it would be D&D. Planescape: Torment was a much better story.

Back on topic, that kind of combat system would not work very well at all with Fallout, especially with the aspects involved.
 
Roshambo said:
Planescape: Torment was a much better story.
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hmmm, seems like everybody is talking about Planescape Torment. makes me wonder why i haven't played it yet. excuse me, i must temporarily retreat from society.:)
Back on topic, that kind of combat system would not work very well at all with Fallout, especially with the aspects involved.
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...and i certainly wouldn't want to see it in Fallout. but i'm afraid BIS guys would. and if Chuck somehow gets hold of Fallout 3 project, God help us all. he'll probably use some of his new kewl ideas. predefined movement path and "intelligent" auto-aim included.:roll:
 
Ratty said:
again, i agree there were some flaws in BG's combat. but in case you haven't noticed, the system used in Baldur's Gate is typical real-time strategy combat control! by "real-time strategy" i don't mean crap like C&C, Warcraft and other infantile arcade shooters with resource management features. i mean real strategies like Sudden Strike or Real War, where you have to plan your every move carefully before issueing orders. i don't know how you played Baldur's Gate and similar games, but i always took advantage of terrain, formations and, of course, the pause feature. result - maximum efficiency with minimum losses. i know what you are thinking now: "Baldur's Gate is not an RTS, it's an RPG." but in my opinion, every game where you control several characters must have either turn-based or RTS-based combat control. of course, i find turn-based combat to be most fun and most comfortable, but i also find it acceptable to sacrifice it in order to accomplish greater realism and better game dynamics. whether or not you like this merging of Sudden Strike and a role playing game is up to you. personally, i'd rather be playing good old turn based combat and maybe be able to switch to real-time once i see a 1000 rats coming my way. but i nevertheless find this planned, pause based real-time combat an acceptable solution, certainly more acceptable than mindless hack 'n slash gameplay used in Diablo, Nox and similar "RPG" games.
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The problem is that RTS style combat just doesn't work well for an RPG because it's more like managinga squad rather than controlling your characters. It's one step removed from interacting with your characters because you set things up and then watch for problems. If there's no problems, you just watch your little grunts kill 'em all. That's what I mean by a lack of interactivity.

The analogy I used for this over a BIS's old forum was that the real time with pause system is on par with watching an impressionable friend play a combat situation in a CRPG and occationally offer him some advice on the situation. Hey, move your fighter over to fight that troll or Maybe you should use your cleric to heal your wizard because it's health is low. Passed the initial set up for combat, that's what you're doing.
 
Argh. You all have a point, nobody wants "Falloutcraft" but I can't stop myself thinking that TB combat trashes most of the combat dynamics and makes combat something like a more sophisticated chess game... :?
 
it doesn't necessarily have to ruin the game dynamics. when guns start blazing, enemies start closing in, your health starts dropping, and all that in detailed graphics and plenty of gory details, you won't even notice you are actually playing turnbased.

P.S. Final Fantasy had a nice dynamic turn-based mode, where moves could be made simultaneously, but your could only make a move if you had enough energy (or whatever the hell that stuff was called, i can't remember anymore). that way, the combat was always planned and never chaotic, yet more dynamic and exciting than in ordinary turn based mode. i don't think i'd like to see that in Fallout, though.
 
Ratty said:
P.S. Final Fantasy had a nice dynamic turn-based mode, where moves could be made simultaneously, but your could only make a move if you had enough energy (or whatever the hell that stuff was called, i can't remember anymore). that way, the combat was always planned and never chaotic, yet more dynamic and exciting than in ordinary turn based mode. i don't think i'd like to see that in Fallout, though.
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Timed phase based, basically. The problem with it is that it's rather difficult to make a system like that which also allows movement. I actually prefer Prelude to Darkness' implimentation of turn based, where it rotates to the next person with the most amount of action points every time an action is performed. If you have 16APs, and you fire a weapon using 6APs, your character fires then the next person goes. He spends his, then it flips to the person with the next amount of available action points. When everyone's out of APs, the new round begins.
 
hi, i don't know if my suggestion has been made already, but with fallout 3 might it be possible to follow in the x-com series footsteps. the first two were entirly turn-based, but the third gave you the option of choosing which you wished to play. and the first time i read one of the replies to this question i got a little made. it seemed that the person was more interested in sales then in the game. but that could've just been me. that's all i have to say for the moment, good bye.
 
I'd rather play FO:POS before I'd even touch RT Fallout 3. Hey, that rhymes. Fallout is a turn based game. Go play Tactics if you want RT.
 
Saint_Proverbius said:
Ratty said:
P.S. Final Fantasy had a nice dynamic turn-based mode, where moves could be made simultaneously, but your could only make a move if you had enough energy (or whatever the hell that stuff was called, i can't remember anymore). that way, the combat was always planned and never chaotic, yet more dynamic and exciting than in ordinary turn based mode. i don't think i'd like to see that in Fallout, though.
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Timed phase based, basically. The problem with it is that it's rather difficult to make a system like that which also allows movement. I actually prefer Prelude to Darkness' implimentation of turn based, where it rotates to the next person with the most amount of action points every time an action is performed. If you have 16APs, and you fire a weapon using 6APs, your character fires then the next person goes. He spends his, then it flips to the person with the next amount of available action points. When everyone's out of APs, the new round begins.
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Kind of reminds me of the old Shadowrun initiative system - roll lots of dice and go as the numbers dictate.
 
Arawn09 said:
(snip)
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Wow, nothing quite says relevence to a topic like proving you aren't going to bother reading the topic at all and just drop some (by then) irrelevent and disruptive brain turd.
 
Briosafreak:
Curiously it has posts from a Gustav with the same avatar you use, that Gustav was once banned....
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I'm still wondering why this "Gustav" was banned, he told me it had something to do with red coulor or something. He told me that he's very sorry and told me to behave properly while visiting, wich I sertainly will.
sorry for posting the "RT/TB swich" topic
 
Let's just say I know you are the same Gustav, act nice and you'll be able to stay. Step out of line and I'll skullfuck your remains...

oooh..that kinda scared me too...
 
OK this is what I have to say about TB/RTB. I am a true fan of TB as it was in Fallout and Fallout 2. But as that Sawyer guy said recently, it might be best to have a switch. That would appease the most people, since you can choose which style to play. Assuming that the TB style will be just as good (or better) as it has been in Fo1 and Fo2. As long as the feeling remains the same, and it doesn't cause some sense of weirdness like it did in Fo:T, I'm perfectly fine with having a switch. In fact, it sounds like the best solution to me. That way, if you hate TB, you can play RTB. Or vice versa.
 
Well, given that X-COM: Apocalypse has serious balance problems, even though the TB and RT combat modes were separate on a basic note (enemy design and other stats/aspects were intertwined to both), then it doesn't bode well for Fo3 to be able to have both. Even moreso given the changes that Sawyer wants to do, which would lead to a load of balancing and other matters.

Do you think they'll have a full three years or more to develop it? I doubt it.
 
Ya i think that FO3 should be tb because rt just doesn't have the Fallout feel to it. It was nice in FOT but not in a real FO game.
 
Ugh. That almost seemed incoherent. "Ya urabtln," to which she replies, "uracut2." Isn't it sad how clever that joke was back in 1988, but now it's typical trite that the "kewl l337 d00dz" use as standard English now?

Anyway, JE Sawyer had posted an idea that you will have the option of turn-based or real time, but you can't change that in the middle of combat. I kind of like that. If you decide you want to fight the 1001 ants in real time, then you can't suddenly switch to turn-based once you see the "Keeng Rat" sneaking up on your characters. The only question is then--how do you determine in real time when your characters are technically out of combat?
 
Yeah, his idea might sound good at first, but try and look at it some more.

Having a rt/tb hybrid will fuck up game balancing. Just look at Arcanum.

You can't make a good action point system and apply it to real time, you would have too many factors, and you would end up with too bad combat modes.
 
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