Fallout Tactics ... why not?

FOT had a linear plot (go here, kill X, get X, repeat) with no option to strike out on your own. It also had almost no interesting dialouge. (Sarge says:go here, kill X, get X). The missions were usually tedious, and I felt no motivation to finish the game other than curiosity of the first play-through.

It was fun romping around the Fallout universe with new weapons, graphics, and squad members for a while, but afterwards it felt very unfulfilling.
 
I can only mirror many others opinion.
I liked FO:T from a squad tactics point of view (as I have liked other games from said genre), but it had/has nothing much to do with Fallout as such.

It was simply to capitalize on the name and following of the Fallout-games and thus it rubs many fans of the series/universe the wrong way.
 
i couldnt help but think the whole ytime that it was some horrible hbrid of commandos, mad max, and fallout, that i somehow enjoyed, but regret the existence of.

it definately ruined my perspective of the brotherhood of steel, which were my fav before, and i definately need a fo3 to fix this for me
 
The atmosphere and graphics just felt too stale and clean to me. No more 50's background and on top of that, the BoS felt completely altered because of the fact that they weren't as paranoid and isolatonist as in previous fallouts.

I enjoyed the first couple of missions a bit though. It felt post-apoc in the sense that you were low on ressources and it had that survivor feel, although it's pretty weird, given the premiss that you were recruited by the BoS, one of the most powerful organisations of the wastes.

After a couple of missions however, I was completely turned of by respectively bugmen (if I remember correctly), hairy deathclaws robots, repetitiveness and lack of dialogue.

As said before, the game can hold his own as a tactical shooter, but not as a fallout game.
 
Combat was way to easy for me. Put it on real time. I would just line them up like a firing squad. Go into crouched or prone position. Put the firing mode on 66%. Take 2 to 3 step at a time until I got in range and the enemy would make suicide runs at my squad. :roll:
 
I've finished Tactics once and found no reason to play it again. The missions are linear, dialouges don't exist at all (you just get orders/information from NPCs) and after you finish it, you simply have nothing that would make you want to play it again. You have no use of characters specialised for anything else but combat and healing, because that's all you do throughout the game: kill and heal. IMO, this game has nothing to do with previous Fallouts except the name and the post-apocalyptic atmosphere.
 
The haters are totally exagerating. Tactics was just like Fallout 1+2 but once you started a mission you couldnt leave it. Other than that it was 95% the same. RT-Turn based was optional.

A vast majority of the above replies sound like sound like they are really trying hard to come up with reasons not to like Tactics. The rest are just jumping on the bandwagon.
 
FOT was a lost cause in my world when I realised that some weapons became more or less useless as the story unraveled. Mutants made most small guns obsolete and robots were immune to most big guns. If it would have been an occasional encounter with robots then it could have added a tactical level but they just had to plant enough androids to consume ~500 emp shells/mission. And in the end all you needed was 80+ damage resistance and the "Tactics" part was reduced to a Dungeon Siege level (auto attack + move). It had some bright moments just before I got my first vindicator then it was a marathon towards the end with an occasional splatter of oil/blood/green goo.

As for the loss of the "FO spirit". You bicker more about the true canon then the most fanatic fundamentalist semites. No matter how good Fallout was, its NOT the words of an allmighty god and therefore subject to change. Try to figure out why the change is for the worse before flaming everything that is changed.
 
What is this, invasion of the Tactics fanboys?
jocko_jonson said:
The haters are totally exagerating. Tactics was just like Fallout 1+2 but once you started a mission you couldnt leave it. Other than that it was 95% the same. RT-Turn based was optional.

A vast majority of the above replies sound like sound like they are really trying hard to come up with reasons not to like Tactics. The rest are just jumping on the bandwagon.
Stop trolling.
95% the same? Lack of dialogue, lack of atmosphere, lack of sidequests, completely different artistic style, a lot of things that conflicted with established Fallout canon, RT-combat option that made both TB and RT unbalanced, real-life weapons, bugmen, modern robots. I could go on for quite a while.
That's not 95% the same.

Nargun said:
As for the loss of the "FO spirit". You bicker more about the true canon then the most fanatic fundamentalist semites. No matter how good Fallout was, its NOT the words of an allmighty god and therefore subject to change. Try to figure out why the change is for the worse before flaming everything that is changed.
Try to figure out how to read, then, since it's been explained multiple times in this thread why we hated the canon changes in Tactics.
Mainly because they altered the nature of many things quite essential to Fallout's world. Since they managed to ignore this, all they did was take the Fallout name and ignored everything that made Fallout Fallout whenever they wanted.
And guess what, we're fans of Fallout, we like the games, and hence we dislike it when people start to fuck around with them.
 
Nargun said:
No matter how good Fallout was, its NOT the words of an allmighty god and therefore subject to change.

I resent that. As a matter of fact, I firmly believe that God plays Fallout. I bet he even based our world on Fallout. Uhhuh.
 
Nargun said:
No matter how good Fallout was, its NOT the words of an allmighty god and therefore subject to change. Try to figure out why the change is for the worse before flaming everything that is changed.
Actually, Fallout1 is "the words of allmighty god", because Fallout 1 has described the Fallout world. While changes in gameplay in non-RPG titles are acceptable, changing the canon isn't.
 
jocko_jonson said:
The haters are totally exagerating. Tactics was just like Fallout 1+2 but once you started a mission you couldnt leave it. Other than that it was 95% the same. RT-Turn based was optional.

The combat was imbalanced because of both being included on the same map and item design, and the stat conversion didn't work quite well, either. Which was evident in X-COM: Apocalypse, Arcanum, and others that have tried to use both time systems with otherwise the same game design. Balancing is a total bitch.

Really, enough has been said, because these forums have quite a history. I could easily list more extensive reasons, but I'll leave it to you to search and read on your own, something I would expect of any sentient being. If you want me to treat you fairly, I can do that, if you want me to treat you as if you're special, I can do that as well.

As for the 95% part...in no way was it even close. From the nearly exclusively real-world weapons and locations now in FOT from the generic names in Fallout, to the style of the humor, nothing was the same.

A vast majority of the above replies sound like sound like they are really trying hard to come up with reasons not to like Tactics. The rest are just jumping on the bandwagon.

Amusing troll, but when the game is compared to JA2 and doesn't even come close, and wasn't even about to come close when it was announced (it was just going to be a series of maps), and I had to step in and wave the bullshit flag so the game wouldn't be a complete wreck. On these very forums, thank you very much.

Again, feel free to kiss my ass for that, kid.

Nargun said:
As for the loss of the "FO spirit". You bicker more about the true canon then the most fanatic fundamentalist semites.

Well, when Dan Levin and others replaced "dark irony" with "shit jokes", I think we'd have something to gripe about, hmm?

Your assignment for tonight, children, is to watch both Terminator 2, Terminator 3, and then Cherry 2000. Pretend that Cherry 2000 is Terminator 4, and you'll have Fallout Tactics. Think of Terminator 3 as Fallout 2, for more pop-culture jokes and inane easter eggs that took away from any real development time to make the title solid and with substance, instead going for fanservice and cheap appeal.

For example, the bugginess of Fo2 compared to Fallout, but what else could you have expected from Feargut "SLAM DUNK!" MacShiny and "DtU is Teh RoXORS!" MCA?

No matter how good Fallout was, its NOT the words of an allmighty god and therefore subject to change.

It was the only one that established and kept to canon, as even Fallout 2 wildly disregarded the design of the first to include material that didn't fit. Really, I do get tired of explaining this basic shit to newbies. You can bother to lurk or join the Blacklist too, I don't care which.

Try to figure out why the change is for the worse before flaming everything that is changed.

Try to figure out why people follow a series and a setting before you make yourself look further stupid.
 
To demonstrate my point I split my post in one anti Tactics part and one anti flaming part. Since no one quoted even a single word from the anti Tactics part that represent roughly 70% of the post I have to assume that no one is really interested in discussing why Tactics suck or not. The focus seems to be the fact that neither FOT nor Fallout 2 is Fallout and and the fact that some(im not one of them) don't care that the jokes, conversation, combat and quests have degraded. If you don't feel represented by this generalization its because you are not included in it so theres no need to assume that I don't read your posts.

FOT did have an improved interface, especially the extended menu buttons, the ability to prone and more variation in weapon models(as in the model seen in the characters hands).
 
I tried playing FT yesterday.
This game is pathetic. Not only it has raped the Fallout setting, but also it has a dumb AI and campaign that gets so boring that bringing oneself to finish it is a challenge.
 
Nargun said:
To demonstrate my point I split my post in one anti Tactics part and one anti flaming part. Since no one quoted even a single word from the anti Tactics part that represent roughly 70% of the post I have to assume that no one is really interested in discussing why Tactics suck or not.

Another conclusion might be that everyone's already had that discussion and the consensus is that Tactics is generally so reviled as a Fallout game that no one had to quote you on it, that your statement was taken in the same vein as a hollow and dejected war veteran telling numbing stories from the trenches at a squad re-union.

FOT did have an improved interface, especially the extended menu buttons, the ability to prone and more variation in weapon models(as in the model seen in the characters hands).

I don't know if I'd call the ability to go prone an improvement, in light of the fact that it was put in to facilitate FO:T's "tactical" combat element and would've been largely out of place in the franchise's more thematically chaste progenitors.

I'll give you the weapons models, but only with the caveat that the amount and type of weapons in the game was, as has been stated in this very thread, ridiculously off-base. Still, the fact that the devs chose to focus on glossy details like that while missing so much of the big picture just kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'd sooner play the first Fallout than most next-gen RPG's up to and including Oblivion-- the world was just so well-crafted that minor nitpicks like graphical homogeneity scarcely mattered at all. If they had proceeded in that mindset with either of the following games, maybe the "true essence" of Fallout would have been carried on even up to this day in a thriving franchise, rather than limping along as the sheltered heart of an internet forum full of weathered, embittered wasteland jackals who've been hurt so many times that we refuse to yield the burden of suspicion for anything short of the second coming of Tim Cain himself.
 
Nargun said:
To demonstrate my point

To demonstrate my point...you should know by now. :lol:

I split my post in one anti Tactics part and one anti flaming part.

Awww, good for you. We have an archive of threads about FOT. Read them and illuminate yourself before you continue to bitch about what we didn't repeat again for your benefit, for the benefit of the seven or eight dozenth newbie without a fucking clue (+1 now, apparently) to read for themselves like an intelligent being.

There's a reason why I have references in both Planescape: Torment and Fallout Tactics. I'm a pain in the ass, but I'm accurate as hell.

I already told you to lurk. If you don't understand that, go to newbie.org and start familiarizing yourself with how the internet works. This is not your average LameSpy fansite.

Since no one quoted even a single word from the anti Tactics part that represent roughly 70% of the post I have to assume that no one is really interested in discussing why Tactics suck or not.

Since you didn't really touch upon the real reasons why FOT was unliked, which represents roughly...oh...a SHITLOAD of the posts on our FOT forum. So I wonder if you're really here to discuss the reasons why, or use a few token items to excuse a whining bit of flamebait with the excuse of "change" that hasn't yet worked for any series I'm ever familiar with (maybe you'd like to share your amazing industry experience on this one, kid), I'm ready to conclude your piss-poor troll with a banning.

Most of your gripes were in relation to yourself, and compared to the numerous threads on this forums, not even a drop in the fucking bucket, kid.

The focus seems to be the fact that neither FOT nor Fallout 2 is Fallout and and the fact that some(im not one of them) don't care that the jokes, conversation, combat and quests have degraded.

And if they equate personal opinion as fact, then they can keep it to themselves.

If you don't feel represented by this generalization its because you are not included in it so theres no need to assume that I don't read your posts.

Ah, yes, the baiting speech. Got an excuse for this, or shall I assume it's your usual stupidity?

FOT did have an improved interface, especially the extended menu buttons, the ability to prone and more variation in weapon models(as in the model seen in the characters hands).

Except, as noted numerous times over, the compromises for those superficial changes doesn't outweigh the fact that it's both a poor Fallout game AND a poor tactical game. Get a clue, child. JA2 fansites are still going strong. FOT clannies never had a clue.

Go find one of those, if there's any left, and try to blend into their brand of denial.
 
Thank you Yamu for a surprisingly informative and friendly post.

Since I miss the open ended conversation options I will try to simulate them.

To dominate a character you need leverage. Leverage is mostly based on three things: fear, awe and love.

Fear is based on intimidation, in this case a threat.
Roshambo chose:
B: Start lurking or ill ban you.
The threat and demand adds up to more or less the same results.
The leverage gain is (Threat - Demand = 0)

Awe in this case a function of Fallout skill and INT. With Roshambos above average Fallout skill this would have been the best approach.
Since Roshambo in a previous conversation chose
C: "...lying opinion..." he gets -2 INT for rolls against characters in the same thread and this option is therefor inactive.

Love is based on CHA and Karma and we all know that CHA is the first to get fund cuts on every character but the all out charmer.
Roshambo chose:
A: You bitching, clueless, stupid newbie/kid/child/fanboy. [-20]

With the -5 karma points from the annoying tribal and the -10 from the "Pain in the ass" trait the equation ends up with (-15)+(-20)=-35 reaction. Not a good modifier for the next action.

All that is left is:

A: [stop trying] It takes some guts to swallow my pride but "I just found something better to do. "

B:[Pull the trigger]. This accomplish nothing but it will end the conversation and leave no one to remind me of the outcome.
"Hey! You are a mutant ain't you?"

C: "Did I tell you that your opinion doesn't matter you inane fuckup? There is no such thing as lower INT from conversation options and the 'Pain in the ass' trait -10 modifier is Fallout IV patch 1.8 and that doesn't have the radiation mutated virus that may mutate humans into something very similar to ordinary radiation mutated humans so its not true canon. So quit your lame ass attempts to find anything good in anything but Fallout 1 or go lurking or something"
 
*bans with critical effect*

I find that works, too, for those too stupid to read what has been written before and have to be reminded multiple times.
 
I know at this point nobody needs my two cents worth, but here it is. FOT pissed me off worse than any other game I have ever played. I am a JA2 fan, every bit as rabid as the Fallout fans here. You simply can't compare FOT with its linear missions, crappy AI, and characterless NPC's to JA2. The people who made FOT had FO and JA2, two of the best games ever made, sitting in front of them. They could have made a game I would have been happy to play until I died of old age. Just thinking of this wasted potential still raises my blood pressure.
 
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