Fallout Universe on the cusp of industrialization?

[Tubgirl Universe Canon]

So from looking at Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 and even Fallout NV we can assume that by 2300 the Fallout universe is going to be looking to building factories and getting into infrastructure planning. It just can't be the same.

I don't think this was intentional, Bethesda made efforts to make the game generally "fun" for the whole family and well I don't need to invite discussion on the state of Fallout 4 but part of this is having a lot of "stuff" and to have stuff you need to have lots of buildings, power, factions, inventions, and so forth but it leaves the whole series on the cusp of even more dramatic changes unless they start going back and filling holes in the timeline.

I don't even think it might be a bad thing, we could have a Dickensesque New York which has a lot of opportunity for good story and things, on the other hand I fully expect Bethesda to take this in bad directions and to double down on their efforts to make the series even more LoLwAcKy.

Then there's also the possibility that Bethesda keeps the series basically stalled at Fallout 4 levels of advancement, they could of course come up with some reason to do so and that might be an interesting story in itself but I fully expect Bethesda might simply never address the issue and continue chugging along as they don't seem to care if Fallout makes the least bit of sense.

Just a shower thought I had this morning. Discuss.

 

[cratchety ol joe]

I don't care that the timeline 'split' there were still close to 200 years of human initiative and growth from split to war. Even contemplating the 'late' appearance of micro transistors, the FO world would be in a position far advanced compared to the one we know right now. The world of Fallout pre-war is in my headcanon more like Bladerunner, and less like Happy Days.

 

[Kyoto]

I don't care that the timeline 'split' there were still close to 200 years of human initiative and growth from split to war. Even contemplating the 'late' appearance of micro transistors, the FO world would be in a position far advanced compared to the one we know right now. The world of Fallout pre-war is in my headcanon more like Bladerunner, and less like Happy Days.

Learn from Deus Ex 1, it portrayed the future as relatively similar and normal to the status quo.

So Pre-War fallout would just be 1950s style cold war aesthetics plus 2000s onwards tech with more focus on nukes.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Fallout 1 & 2 included a single nuke each —afaik. They treated nukes very seriously, and tinged with ironies. Todd's silliness about nukes is not indicative of the series before Bethesda tampered with it; tamper they did.

 

[Kyoto]

Fallout 1 & 2 included a single nuke each —afaik. They treated nukes very seriously, and tinged with ironies. Todd's silliness about nukes is not indicative of the series before Bethesda tampered with it; tamper they did.

In the Divide, nukes are literally used for clearing rubble. No idea how radiation didn't do anything.

 

[Gizmojunk]

The m-28 [later M-29] rifle —which the fatman rifle in-game is based upon, could not fire the nuclear round far enough to not hit the weapon crew with the fallout.

 

[cratchety ol joe]

Learn from Deus Ex 1, it portrayed the future as relatively similar and normal to the status quo.

So Pre-War fallout would just be 1950s style cold war aesthetics plus 2000s onwards tech with more focus on nukes.

I beg the question(s): Would it be? And Why?

The ultra-50's, cold-war thing really only came into force circa Fallout 3, and furthermore in 4 (and the continued Bethesda-ification of the franchise). I beg you to go back and look at the design concepts that the originals came from. The only elements that Tim Cain talked of were that the robots should be more like Robbie the Robot and less like The Terminator - but this wasn't an exacting order of going all the way into 'pulp' sci-fi, merely a design tenet to be included. Cain also referred directly to Mad Max and A Boy and His Dog as design points of interest, I see neither of these elements being overly represented in Bethesda's games.

The war occurs in 2077, and I refuse to accept that the cultural id of the US stagnated for a full 127 years...

Just look at the progress of cultural shift from the period (in our real world) of the 50's through the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's each decade became thematically VERY different to the previous. It is incongruent to suspension of disbelief to think that an entire society of hundreds of millions of people just fails to progress in any meaningful cultural way in such a scale of time.

I can believe and accept that there could be an influence of 50's pulp sci-fi within the vision of 'what Fallout should be' but HOLY CRAP, have you seen FO4 and 76? Roadside diners, shopping malls right out of Happy Days, homeware that looks like rejects from Wandavision, the attire we're shown as left over from pre-war is devoid of any 'futurism'. The whole thing as an effort in design is leaning ever more into retro-pulp, near cartoonishness. IMHO, the series post 3 is a tragedy in writing and unimaginative concepts (see also; every game having Super Mutants, BOS/Enclave)

 

[Gizmojunk]

but HOLY CRAP, have you seen FO4 and 76? Roadside diners, shopping malls right out of Happy Days, homeware that looks like rejects from Wandavision, the attire we're shown as left over from pre-war is devoid of any 'futurism'.

It's absurd; always has been from them. They are either [all] heinously obtuse, or have made the change deliberately for marketing reasons. Neither is excusable.

 

[TorontoReign]

 

[Hardboiled Android]

not enough gothic/art deco fusion skyscrapers

 

[TorontoReign]

not enough gothic/art deco fusion skyscrapers

You mean that art that was inspired by older stuff when people complain about no stuff beyond the 50's? I think they did good with this. Why use buildings that look like the 40's? 2077 was when the war kicked off. Lots of decades there.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Personally think the culture would keep with the gothic/art deco motif (as part of their futuristic architecture) right up to 2077—but not after. Everyone in Fallout, except the ghouls, has grown up in the wrecked remains of the past—even those inside the vaults; those few living in perpetual indoctrination from the past, until leaving for the world outside. But the culture changed; Sulik is proof enough of that.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

You mean that art that was inspired by older stuff when people complain about no stuff beyond the 50's? I think they did good with this. Why use buildings that look like the 40's? 2077 was when the war kicked off. Lots of decades there.

Because I think that style of architecture looks really neat and better sells the idea of living in the ruins of an antique civilization beyond our understanding, like Egypt or Babylon. Vast and alien. Not just because it was in Fo1.

That said, I wouldn't mind some Jetsons style glass-and-steel skyscrapers thrown into the mix, and I even find some of Fo4's more futuristic architecture with all of the garish metal plating to be neat. But I would prefer that in addition to a primary neo-gothic/deco style.

Personally think the culture would keep with the gothic/art deco motif (as part of their futuristic architecture) right up to 2077—but not after. Everyone in Fallout, except the ghouls, has grown up in the wrecked remains of the past—even those inside the vaults; those few living in perpetual indoctrination from the past, until leaving for the world outside. But the culture changed; Sulik is proof enough of that.

Even Fo2 and FNV don't go far enough with the tribal stuff

 

[TorontoReign]

Because I think that style of architecture looks really neat and better sells the idea of living in the ruins of an antique civilization beyond our understanding, like Egypt or Babylon. Vast and alien. Not just because it was in Fo1.

That said, I wouldn't mind some Jetsons style glass-and-steel skyscrapers thrown into the mix, and I even find some of Fo4's more futuristic architecture with all of the garish metal plating to be neat. But I would prefer that in addition to a primary neo-gothic/deco style.


Even Fo2 and FNV don't go far enough with the tribal stuff

Oh well I totally agree it did look great! I love the style as well.

 

[It Just Works]

Honestly, I've always loved this brand of retrofuturistic architecture, especially Googie.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Even Fo2 and FNV don't go far enough with the tribal stuff

It began even in Fallout (1).

 

[william dempsey]

The pic shows one thing I think will happen in our own near future. All kinds of new materials could be used to re-construct air ships. Not the R101, hydrogen filled, steel framed Zeppelins of the early 1900's, that went bang a lot. Newer poly carbons, filled with Hydro/Helium mixtures that were far more stable and propulsion that was not toxic or flammable.

Liverpool/Dublin/New York in 6 days. The ballrooms would be full of uber rich doing the Charles ton.

 

[Kyoto]

I beg the question(s): Would it be? And Why?

The ultra-50's, cold-war thing really only came into force circa Fallout 3, and furthermore in 4 (and the continued Bethesda-ification of the franchise). I beg you to go back and look at the design concepts that the originals came from. The only elements that Tim Cain talked of were that the robots should be more like Robbie the Robot and less like The Terminator - but this wasn't an exacting order of going all the way into 'pulp' sci-fi, merely a design tenet to be included. Cain also referred directly to Mad Max and A Boy and His Dog as design points of interest, I see neither of these elements being overly represented in Bethesda's games.

The war occurs in 2077, and I refuse to accept that the cultural id of the US stagnated for a full 127 years...

Just look at the progress of cultural shift from the period (in our real world) of the 50's through the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's each decade became thematically VERY different to the previous. It is incongruent to suspension of disbelief to think that an entire society of hundreds of millions of people just fails to progress in any meaningful cultural way in such a scale of time.

I can believe and accept that there could be an influence of 50's pulp sci-fi within the vision of 'what Fallout should be' but HOLY CRAP, have you seen FO4 and 76? Roadside diners, shopping malls right out of Happy Days, homeware that looks like rejects from Wandavision, the attire we're shown as left over from pre-war is devoid of any 'futurism'. The whole thing as an effort in design is leaning ever more into retro-pulp, near cartoonishness. IMHO, the series post 3 is a tragedy in writing and unimaginative concepts (see also; every game having Super Mutants, BOS/Enclave)

"Just look at the progress of cultural shift from the period (in our real world) of the 50's through the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's each decade became thematically VERY different to the previous."

There is a reason you chose 60s/70s/80s onwards, because that is when American culture diverged from what is normal, and became society is today. Compare 1920s to 1950s culture, its a stone toss away, that is how close they are. Very stark difference from 50s to 80s. So the idea that culture remaining normal is stagnation isn't true. What has happened these last years is radical social engineering of US culture through capital and media.

However you do make a good point, I've been revisiting fallout 2 lately, and I don't see any 1950s stuff. More dungeons and dragons nonsense.

It began even in Fallout (1).

View attachment 26132

I think the tribal asethetics is rather grotesque and doesn't make much sense either. If the idea is a nuclear apocalypse reverts people centuries back, well wouldn't that be victorian or medieval era? Instead they go all the way back to the stone age and take up Amerindian culture for some reason, despite Amerindians being 1% of the population.

 

[TorontoReign]

"Just look at the progress of cultural shift from the period (in our real world) of the 50's through the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's each decade became thematically VERY different to the previous."

There is a reason you chose 60s/70s/80s onwards, because that is when American culture diverged from what is normal, and became society is today. Compare 1920s to 1950s culture, its a stone toss away, that is how close they are. Very stark difference from 50s to 80s. So the idea that culture remaining normal is stagnation isn't true. What has happened these last years is radical social engineering of US culture through capital and media.

However you do make a good point, I've been revisiting fallout 2 lately, and I don't see any 1950s stuff. More dungeons and dragons nonsense.



I think the tribal asethetics is rather grotesque and doesn't make much sense either. If the idea is a nuclear apocalypse reverts people centuries back, well wouldn't that be victorian or medieval era? Instead they go all the way back to the stone age and take up Amerindian culture for some reason, despite Amerindians being 1% of the population.

To be fair there are lots of tribes in that area and oral culture does transfer better than a written one.

 

[Tubgirl Universe Canon]

I beg the question(s): Would it be? And Why?

The ultra-50's, cold-war thing really only came into force circa Fallout 3, and furthermore in 4 (and the continued Bethesda-ification of the franchise). I beg you to go back and look at the design concepts that the originals came from. The only elements that Tim Cain talked of were that the robots should be more like Robbie the Robot and less like The Terminator

There were a lot of other 1950s things. It's been awhile but the car designs stick out particularly. All the machinery had that nicely rounded 1950s factory aesthetic. Still I remember from a conversation I had with a friend ages ago that I was past my first play through of both games before realizing that the 1950s were supposed to be a big influence. It wasn't super in your face about it.

Fallout 4 is like happy days if everyone stopped showing up to work for 20 years. The buildings are way too intact, the civilization is wayy wayy too generally developed and seems to be at a point where people are going to be trying to establish national transit system or would at least have gotten around to burying skeletons and cleaning up trash. I'd also expect some mass produced goods, labor is cheap, machinery is working, some areas are safe, why isn't anyone except maybe the brotherhood mass producing? Most of the nuked buildings are in better shape than a lot of places 10 years after the war but in 200 years the best anyone did was throw down a few boards over the holes in the floor?