Fallout3 and Multiplayer

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F:O 3 should be multi and they should make it like Tactics where when you go upstairs you walk up there instead of changing the map they should make it a huge world map like when you go from one town to the other you have to actually walk there and not just go to the world map and click on the town
 
Well

The problem with multiplayer is that it does not lend itself to deep stories. If the developers want to maintain the level of depth that the FO RPGs currently have, multiplayer is simply not an option.
 
I hate you. What you are proposing is clearly Fallout Online, at least it looks like. "Fallout Online topics are not welcomed here".





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You don't have to be so nasty about it though!!! I'm just as sick as everyone else of FOOL but well this maybe a nweby who just wanted to post a little suggestion and doesn't know the rules. And let's not go bac to debating about it.

Ohh and if you are a newby or haven't been here for ages (the rules have changed) then lot's of guys don't like stuff about a full online multiplayer fallout because some of the nastier people of the board had a big argument over it. Personaly i would love an online fallout but i keep my mouth shut becuase i want to stay here and i've been here long enough to know that you obey the rules or cause chaos and are chucked out!!!

Sorry if that came over nasty. The admins are sometimes slow in seeing some posts so a lot of us act a little like then to try to make thier job easier. Anyway if you are new you know for next time

If you aren't knew (sorry i didn't recognise the name) then shame on you for posting against the rules.

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RE: Well

Why doesn't multiplayer lend itself to great stories? Almost all p&p RPGs are multiplayer. And you can have gamemasters in computer RPGs too. So, you could easily have a multiplayer FO.
 
Ok

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-01 AT 09:50PM (GMT)[p]Let me rephrase that, multiplayer does not lend itself well to deep storylines in CPRGs. Look at Baldur's Gate, for example. Although the game has been praised by some as having revived the CRPG genre, it clearly lacks the depth of the FO games. The Diablo games are more examples, although I dislike calling them RPGs. Very few RPGs that support multiplayer have the depth of a game like FO because more time and resources must be spent on the MP aspect of the game.

Although supporting a GM is an option, I hated the SP game that went along with Vampire's MP. There were some severe problems, possibly because too much time was spent on MP. Until I see a good single player mode to go along with GM multiplayer in a CRPG, I'm not convinced that it's the answer.
 
Well I haven't been here for ages. Not since the message board was just post a message with no login. But i dont want the fallout to be full MP I want it to have a single player but i want the multiplayer to be a lil like Tactics but instead of being like SWAT 2 playing i want it like Ultima Online playable You get quests and stuff from Game Masters but i want there still to be a single player.
 
Clearly...

>>I hate you. What you are proposing is clearly Fallout Online, at least it looks like. "Fallout Online topics are not welcomed here".<<

Clearly you should read a little more thoroughly before you tell someone you hate them. Fallout Online topics are banned but a speaking about a multiplayer part of Fallout 3 (not a full online game) is not. That is exactly what they are doing.

-True Raven
 
RE: Clearly...

I joked when I said that I hate him. Hmm. Perhaps I should've put :-) and J/K.

He said that it would be great if instead of world map BI should make one big-ass map. Looks mighty like UO to me...





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ROBBY please pay no heed to some of these assholes that appear on this site from time to time, your comments are completely legal. Some people get themselves off by calling fellow gamers "nwebies" and morons among others.
The idea of online Fallout is not new by any stretch of the imagination and it’s probably on the horizon although it will not be considered a true sequel to the series, the series, among other things being at heart a linear RPG. FO-OL, as it is most often referred to, will probably employ the new 3D engine that is going to be used in FO3. Being such, maps of entire cities will probably be more or less consolidated second level and all for both FO3 and FO-OL.
Please don’t be turned off by the cynicisms of some of our members. I personally think that the more Fallout related titles that see the light of day the better, hell even a racing game would be good, you know to bring fresh blood into the fray. Simple matter is someone who plays FO: Tactics, FO-OL, or even FO: Apocalyptic Derby who wasn’t interested in a “Post Apocalyptic Role Playing Game“ might be drawn to the Fallout universe and realize what truly great games they are.
P.S. The concept of traversing the wastelands via point-click is truly vital to the basic game play and will probably not be omitted in coming titles, otherwise you would spend a whole shit load of time clicking your way six hundred miles south east for instance.:)


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Umm, I'm not one of these assholes, am I? Because I wasn't really calling anybody "idiot" or a "moron".





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[font color=#FF0000]
No trash-talking, lower-case prone, ignorant, self-centered, 'in-your-face', 'i-am-always-right-so-you-can-suck-my-dick', 'shit-for-brains' idiots allowed.
 
>who plays FO: Tactics, FO-OL,
>or even FO: Apocalyptic Derby
>who wasn’t interested in a
>“Post Apocalyptic Role Playing Game“
>might be drawn to the
>Fallout universe and realize what
>truly great games they are.

I may be a cynic, but that would make you naive and uneducated, in that case.

Obviously you have learned *nothing* from X-Com and Ultima, and just going on about 'how it would be neat'. Never once using anything resembling logic, past cases in point, or anything. Kind of like your really stupid blathering about FOOL earlier. Talking about features, but still ultimately pointless due to technical problems inherent in trying to merge two very different beasts.



[font color=orange]
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Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------


 
>I may be a cynic, but
>that would make you naive
>and uneducated, in that case.
>
>
>Obviously you have learned *nothing* from
>X-Com and Ultima, and just
>going on about 'how it
>would be neat'. Never
>once using anything resembling logic,
>past cases in point, or
>anything. Kind of like
>your really stupid blathering about
>FOOL earlier. Talking about
>features, but still ultimately pointless
>due to technical problems inherent
>in trying to merge two
>very different beasts.

Logic and detail are two very different “Beasts.”
The whole concept of boards like these are to provide the developers ideas for what their markets want, not to tell them how to perform there jobs. Therefore anything that a “Gamer” requests (remember “For Gamers, By Gamers”) is logical to and very important for Black Isle if they choose to stay in business. I’m educated enough to know that.
I could hella go into details on my different posts, any moron could do it but I lack time and it would be utterly superfluous as I earlier pointed out. If you don’t want me to post my wishes for a FO-OL, fine I'll take it to Black Isle.
I am not trying to spark any flames but I think that if you are going to disparage a post on details make sure the post has basis in details and isn’t some poor gamers pipe dream because *hell* it could very well end up the concept for the next Fallout.
P.S.I personally don’t think that X-Com or Ultima have anything to do with Online Fallout. Being that Black Isle are a different group of people with different familiarity and ideals within the gaming “Universe.”


http://www.321website.com/members/home/data/joecafe/Doc23.jpg
 
>Logic and detail are two very
>different “Beasts.”

Detail without logic is pointless.

>The whole concept of boards like
>these are to provide the
>developers ideas for what their
>markets want, not to tell
>them how to perform there
>jobs.

These boards aren't created for the developers. We've had only two instances where developers have ever visited this board. #1, when a couple of the developers for BOS came to argue for their game, where they met with very hostile opposition and left accusing us of being Nazis and bigots, and #2 when Chris Taylor wrote a message to Rosh on the board after it cooled down.

>Therefore anything that a
>“Gamer” requests (remember “For Gamers,
>By Gamers”) is logical to
>and very important for Black
>Isle if they choose to
>stay in business.

No developer is going to give a rat's ass about some half-assed "wouldn't it be cool if.." bullshit because most of them are stupid ideas (yes, there are such things as "stupid" ideas, e.g. ideas without logic).

>I’m educated
>enough to know that.
>I could hella go into details
>on my different posts, any
>moron could do it but
>I lack time and it
>would be utterly superfluous as
>I earlier pointed out.

Details are where the meat is. If you're not posting details about your ideas, don't bother posting. We don't want to hear ideas that have no basis other than some off-the-top-of-your-head crap.

We have a policy: Make any claim you want as long as you back it up. Also, that any ideas are open for criticism.

>If
>you don’t want me to
>post my wishes for a
>FO-OL, fine I'll take it
>to Black Isle.

Where they'll ignore you. Send a few emails to them, see if they even reply.

>I am not trying to spark
>any flames but I think
>that if you are going
>to disparage a post on
>details make sure the post
>has basis in details and
>isn’t some poor gamers pipe
>dream because *hell* it could
>very well end up the
>concept for the next Fallout.

If you're not going to explain your ideas and provide details, don't post. That's it.

>P.S.I personally don’t think that X-Com
>or Ultima have anything to
>do with Online Fallout. Being
>that Black Isle are a
>different group of people with
>different familiarity and ideals within
>the gaming “Universe.”

And obviously you haven't even thought that through. Please, list something that will make it different, and please don't give any garbage like, "Fallout doesn't have magic," but rather how the gameplay will be different and the people acting any different. Please, ANY. No wait.. you don't supply details.

-Xotor-

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[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-01 AT 05:46AM (GMT)[p]>Logic and detail are two very
>different “Beasts.”

As Xotor has said, but I'll expand upon it.

Details without logic is useless.

Logic without details is an impossibility.

You will find that both are a requisite for intelligent conversation.

>The whole concept of boards like
>these are to provide the
>developers ideas for what their
>markets want, not to tell
>them how to perform there
>jobs. Therefore anything that a
>“Gamer” requests (remember “For Gamers,
>By Gamers”) is logical to
>and very important for Black
>Isle if they choose to
>stay in business. I’m educated
>enough to know that.

"flalout online is k3wl!"

Again, speaking clue zero about how the game would be accomplished without seriously fucking it to hell in a handbasket. The game would not be anything like Fallout, period. So what happens when there's a large demand for something by a giant idiotic audience? Ultima Online, and hence Ultima died because Origin/EA didn't find the Ultima series to be feasable anymore and Rich ended it with a loud bout of gaming diarrhea. Likewise, if Fallout Online made a shitload of money and comparatively Fallout RPG did less, what do you think the logical conclusion would be if/when Interplay/BIS had to make cuts? It wouldn't be on the one that makes them $10 per subscribed player per month.

What happens when there's a much larger demand for Fallout Online than the Fallout RPG series? Ultima series became almost obscure, when it's nothing but Ultima Online and then Ultima was considered to be too archaic and wasn't really what drew the online players to the game. So like Ultima and Ultima Online, it would happen likewise NOT because of ideal dreaming, but because of business practices.

So there goes Fallout RPG.

Folks, please THINK about this shit, okay? Don't use your head for a fucking neck ornament, actually look at historical examples and develop a clue.

But, of course, details are irrelevent to you, right?


>I could hella go into details
>on my different posts, any
>moron could do it but
>I lack time and it
>would be utterly superfluous as
>I earlier pointed out.

Here's where I have to say you are [font color=red]*completely naive* about how the gaming industry works. You give some half-assed idea, it's just a passing thought that fades from their attention once they read something well-thought out and well-written. If it looks like shit, then it's going to be regarded as shit. If it's well-thought out, then it will be taken with more regard. If it's indeed too long-winded, then it will possibly be scanned quickly over, but it will still convey that it might be a good idea.

>If
>you don’t want me to
>post my wishes for a
>FO-OL, fine I'll take it
>to Black Isle.

Sure. Still cluttering up their message boards and getting the dreck laughed at for what...almost three years now? Nothing new.

>I am not trying to spark
>any flames but I think
>that if you are going
>to disparage a post on
>details make sure the post
>has basis in details and
>isn’t some poor gamers pipe
>dream because *hell* it could
>very well end up the
>concept for the next Fallout.

What I saw in your FOOL post didn't have many details.

Nor a clue.

>P.S.I personally don’t think that X-Com
>or Ultima have anything to
>do with Online Fallout. Being
>that Black Isle are a
>different group of people with
>different familiarity and ideals within
>the gaming “Universe.”

Are you a newbie to the gaming scheme? I've been around for more years than I care to remember and I've seen so many instances with shit it isn't funny. Most notably with my time as a CS co-sysop.

I'm glad you like going through life stumbling and all...but if you need to stick your hand onto every burner of the stove to see if they are individually turned on or off, that's your decision. However, many have learned from the past, and seen where other great series have gone downhill and ultimately (pardon the pun) died.

When you have seen where other series have repeatedly made some mistake and suffered for it, what does that lead you to conclude? Ultima and X-Com were just two examples of many that have failed due to actions of that sort.


[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------


 
Final Reply

Sorry, it’s just that I felt a little bit assaulted; I thank you for your thoughtful responses and I shall respond subsequently and with more detail. A lack of time is a sign of an apathetic attitude something I don’t really have about this series.

Xotor first:

>These boards aren't created for
>the developers. We've had only two
>instances where developers have
>ever visited this board. #1, when
>a couple of the developers for BOS
>came to argue for their game,
>where they met with very hostile
>opposition and left accusing us
>of being Nazis and bigots, and #2
>when Chris Taylor wrote a message
>to Rosh on the board after it cooled down.

I did not know that they were such huge assholes. If you could lead me to that thread I would be more than pleased.

>>If
>>you don’t want me to
>>post my wishes for a
>>FO-OL, fine I'll take it
>>to Black Isle.

>Where they'll ignore you.
>Send a few emails to them, see if
>they even reply.

I’ll take your word on that.

>...list something that will make
>it different, and please don't
>give any garbage like, "Fallout
>doesn't have magic," but rather
>how the gameplay will be different
>and the people acting any different.
>Please, ANY. No wait.. you don't supply details.

I really have no ideas on how to make clients not become killers other than $charging$ a person for every character that they dispose of. You know make them think before they act. I could go on… but I have no reason to spend any time on anymore FO-OL ideas. Besides I’d probably have no time to play the damn thing if it did ever manage to pop up. I am just looking forward to FO3.

TO Rosh:

Your posts were a little abusive so I’ll keep it short.

I have never played a multiplayer online game simply because none of them have interested me. I am 18 years old and have been playing RPGs since I was the tender age of five. I can write in both C++ and C and I also have little bit of familiarity with assembler. I am no NEWBY. I am a High School graduate in the top of my class. I scored a 90 on my ASVABs in which I failed miserably on the automotive segment otherwise it was a perfect score. I am not NAÏVE of much. I am currently selling computers at a Circuit City. I am joining the Air Force as of May where I will be a journalist. I am not STUMBLING through life.


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RE: Final Reply

>TO Rosh:
>
>Your posts were a little abusive
>so I’ll keep it short.
>
>
>I have never played a multiplayer
>online game simply because none
>of them have interested me.
>I am 18 years old
>and have been playing RPGs
>since I was the tender
>age of five. I can
>write in both C++ and
>C and I also have
>little bit of familiarity with
>assembler. I am no NEWBY.
>I am a High School
>graduate in the top of
>my class. I scored a
>90 on my ASVABs in
>which I failed miserably on
>the automotive segment otherwise it
>was a perfect score. I
>am not NAÏVE of much.
>I am currently selling computers
>at a Circuit City. I
>am joining the Air Force
>as of May where I
>will be a journalist. I
>am not STUMBLING through life.

Under the danger of being banned... BWA-HA-HA-HA!!! ROFL :-D





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[font color=#FF0000]
No trash-talking, lower-case prone, ignorant, self-centered, 'in-your-face', 'i-am-always-right-so-you-can-suck-my-dick', 'shit-for-brains' idiots allowed.
 
The post-final response.

>>These boards aren't created for
>>the developers. We've had only two
>>instances where developers have
>>ever visited this board. #1, when
>>a couple of the developers for BOS
>>came to argue for their game,
>>where they met with very hostile
>>opposition and left accusing us
>>of being Nazis and bigots, and #2
>>when Chris Taylor wrote a message
>>to Rosh on the board after it cooled down.
>
>I did not know that they
>were such huge assholes. If
>you could lead me to
>that thread I would be
>more than pleased.

Look at some of the earlier threads on the BOS board.

>I have never played a multiplayer
>online game simply because none
>of them have interested me.
>I am 18 years old
>and have been playing RPGs
>since I was the tender
>age of five. I can
>write in both C++ and
>C and I also have
>little bit of familiarity with
>assembler. I am no NEWBY.
>I am a High School
>graduate in the top of
>my class. I scored a
>90 on my ASVABs in
>which I failed miserably on
>the automotive segment otherwise it
>was a perfect score. I
>am not NAÏVE of much.
>I am currently selling computers
>at a Circuit City. I
>am joining the Air Force
>as of May where I
>will be a journalist. I
>am not STUMBLING through life.

Degrees, diplomas, test scores, etc. do not show *anything* when it comes to explaining your ideas clearly and convincingly.

Did you happen to take any AP English classes, or how about advanced writing? Debate? These are all skills which force you to back up your ideas with FUNDAMENTAL PROOF or at least some details as to how your ideas would be implemented. Most, except for AP English, will not result in a reasonable score/way to show your deductive thinking.

If you do not, your ideas will be torn to shreads, and they diserve to be. An idea with no backup, no details, is worthless. It's like walking into the middle of a street and saying "I like peaches," it is worthless and pointless, and if anything ranting like that will only make people look at you funny.

Your job as an Air Force journalist: You had better be able to defend your opinions or you're going to be torn to shreads and humiliated by someone who can. Either that or you may choose to censor those offending messages. Either way, your words will be in print. Don't make the mistake of looking like an ass because you choose not to back up your ideas/opinions with proof, nor should you take the authoritative stance that your opinions are beyond question, such is the way of all dogma.

-Xotor-

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RE: Final Reply

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-01 AT 04:23AM (GMT)[p]
I really like how you chose certain words and decided to reinvent them for yourself. Hold on, I'll tear through them in a bit.

>I have never played a multiplayer
>online game simply because none
>of them have interested me.

So does that indeed make you *very* uninformed? Would that mean that your arguments are without base because you really do not know what you are talking about?
I think it does. I particularly like your logic that "I've never played any of them, but I'll blather on like a completely clueless moron about how a great game should be made into one." You're insisting on changing something great into something you've not had any experience in. I seriously fail to see what logic you could have come up with that. That verges on the point of unbelievability it's both sad and funny at the same time. Kind of how someone who has no expereince with electronics insists on fixing something, and ends up crispy chicken.

I'll match my own qualifications as well since you apparently feel the need to:

>I am 18 years old
>and have been playing RPGs
>since I was the tender
>age of five.

When I was five I was reading the works of Jules Verne, Isaac Asimov, and Anne McCaffrey quite avidly. My first RPG I played before you were born. 1979, and it was Wizardry, and then M&M as well. Then, in 1984, I bought Wasteland with my own saved-up pocket money.


>I can
>write in both C++ and
>C and I also have
>little bit of familiarity with
>assembler. I am no NEWBY.

To me, you are. To those who have worked in the industry, you are. Programming languages means jack shit in this.

C, C++, Perl, Pascal, Ada, Fortran B, LineBASIC, Misc online languages. I have degrees in computer programming, not only from college, but from the Navy as well.

I say that you are a newbie because you make the mistakes every uneduucated twit makes when talking about something they know nothing about. And that would be online games. Also, computer and cross-platform compatibility. You're a newbie when it comes to Windows programming, or platform-specific and cross-platform programming. How do you think a lot of the controls and such would be done for graphics on a Windows box? It should be so obvious I won't even say it, but if you fail to answer that, I'll be laughing hard. Needless to say, it's very unique to Windows, as every platform has it's own base, and none are really compatible with each other.

I used to be a co-sysop for CS when I lived in Alaska, and I also played on various MUDs. When the Diku code came out, I did like everyone else and tinkered around with it. I've been an Immortal (God, asministrator) on a plethora of MUDs, MUCKs, MUSHes, MOOs, etc, and I still and a PR consultant for some and help assembling Immortal teams for administrations of M*s in general. I have an online published and copyrighted setup and help guide for M* admins to follow and guide by.

On the same note, I've been a Counselor for Ultima Online, which I quit due to the player-abuse I saw going on, I've also played various other online games through their alphas, betas, and into through production. I was one of the lead alpha testers for The Fourth Coming, a game that never really took off despite it's potential.

Currently I play Asheron's Call merely to be with my friends since a MUD in which I used to act as PR consultant has since been retired.

I have seen game series rise and fall, and what the affect has come to various other parts of gaming industries.

First off, an online game would not have the setting of Fallout. If you had indeed played back when MUDs were more tolerable, you'd find that the general audience was programming majors. Now it's children who think the main purpose of the MUD is to kill everything on sight. Check on rec.games.mud.diku for more thoughts on this subject. The playerbase isn't what it used to be.

Fallout was a return to the old-school of roleplaying games. With dreck and shit like Diablo coming out and being mislabeled as an RPG, Fallout was a beacon and a champion of the old-school and the definition of RPG being made firm. Hence, the old-school really and rabidly defends any attempt to besmirch it's name. We're the ones who have played Wasteland and loved it, then looked for more. Fallout was the answer, and the reason it did so well was that it was a return to the old-school of RPGs.

To insist that a great game become some watered little kill-fest world that is the entirety of online games, that's not the meaning of Fallout.

This is *EXACTLY* why I say you are naive and uninformed. You are blissfully going through and ignoring historical examples, going off with no basis of information or experience of what you are *attempting* to talk about. That makes you *naive*, *uninformed*, *baseless*, *stumbling*, *clueless*, and ultimately points you out to be an idiot for arguing about something you have no experience with.

You are a newbie in not only the online gaming scheme, but you are obviously naive in how you submit ideas to someone for approval. I don't mean through just gaming, in life in general. You do something half-assed, it will be regarded as half-assed. No two ways about it.

>I am a High School
>graduate in the top of
>my class. I scored a
>90 on my ASVABs in
>which I failed miserably on
>the automotive segment otherwise it
>was a perfect score. I
>am not NAÏVE of much.

Aced my ASVAB, and it was recommended I become a nuclear engineer or possibly go for a commission instead of enlistment. I declined and became one of the best ETs the Navy knew for my rank. I have three letters of commendation under my belt, and five letters of appreciation. I've been paid by the US Navy over a $100k due to re-engineering the SPS-64 system to be comparable to today's sets and use far less power through the feedhorn system. When boosted, the SPS-64SF-MOD was comparable to models that would use twice as much power at about a third of the cost. The modifications were extensive, and it was feasable for low-power ships such as the frigate.

You certainly ARE naive of what you speak about when it comes to certain things. Naive of how online games work (which I do think was the point of discussion because you dragged entirely unrelated shit into this). Naive of how submitting ideas and stuff through as well.

I had to write a thousand-page report (including technical pages) of the modification before it was seriously accepted to the review board. What do you think would have happened if it was half-assed, and not well-though through?

Please use some common sense.


>I am currently selling computers
>at a Circuit City. I
>am joining the Air Force
>as of May where I
>will be a journalist. I
>am not STUMBLING through life.

Perhaps an idiotic choice in careers, I would insist. Take it from someone who is retired from the Navy, that's a bad choice, to be honest.

Go for something that gives you a better el bonus, and that you can rely on to give you a career after you get out. Journalism is a really sketchy field, and post-enlist journalists aren't held in too high of a regard in the public field. Military journalism isn't anything that public professionalism requires.

I would also say it's a very bad career choice, because like here you'd probably go on about something you don't really know anything about or have any clue about. And hence why you are being ripped to shreds here. Your work would be under the scrutiny of thousands on your command, and if you make such baseless arguments pseudo-information and pseudo-postulations as you've done here, I'd hazard a guess you'd be very ripe for an ass-chewing and wouldn't make it worth a damn.

To bring this point back to the relevent topic of discussion, yes, you are stumbling. You disregard fact, history, detail, and most importantly, experience, and then expect to be able to walk forward with no problem. Reality doesn't work like that.

[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
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RE: Final Reply

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-01 AT 07:32PM (GMT)[p]>Now it's
>children who think the main
>purpose of the MUD is
>to kill everything on sight.

That reminds me... I went on the premiere of 'Blair Witch Project' and had a good time (despite what some are saying about this little masterpiece). When I was coming out of the theater, I saw a group of middle-school kids, one of them talking to the guy who went out with me. Guess what that kid said?

- So, did they kill the witch?..





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[font color=#FF0000]
No trash-talking, lower-case prone, ignorant, self-centered, 'in-your-face', 'i-am-always-right-so-you-can-suck-my-dick', 'shit-for-brains' idiots allowed.
 
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