RE: Final Reply
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-01 AT 08:52AM (GMT)[p]
(Snip irrelevent bullshit sob story. Life's tough kid, suck it up.)
>>
>>I say that you are a
>>newbie because you make the
>>mistakes every uneduucated twit makes
>
>[font color=#00b1b1]I am not an UNEDUCATED
>(UNEDUUCATED) twit nor am I
>naïve for my age.
>
>Oh and it’s “Programming languages ‘MEAN’
>jack shit…” and they are
>more relevant than some of
>your examples.
>
Other than the critique about my errant typing at a fast rate, I'll get back onto topic.
Uneducated at the topic at hand. Which would be MMORPG games. Please make an effort to think and use the words in context with relation to the rest of the topic at hand. You will find that essential to journalism.
Being able to program has little relevence to the big picture here. General knowledge of how operating systems and base drivers are essential. Function of operating systems and how game engines work is also essential. Knowledge of programming languages on a computational or even familiar basis doesn't really help, however.
When you talk about MMORPGs too, it would also help to have some knowledge about them too, wouldn't it? Stick your programming argument where it rightfully belongs.
>>when talking about something they
>>know nothing about. And
>>that would be online games.
>> Also, computer and cross-platform
>>compatibility. You're a newbie
>>when it comes to Windows
>>programming, or platform-specific and cross-platform
>>programming. How do you
>>think a lot of the
>>controls and such would be
>>done for graphics on a
>>Windows box? It should
>>be so obvious I won't
>>even say it, but if
>>you fail to answer that,
>>I'll be laughing hard.
>>Needless to say, it's very
>>unique to Windows, as every
>>platform has it's own base,
>>and none are really compatible
>>with each other.
>
>[font color=#00b1b1]Cross compatibility is possible and
>has been done. Not with
>all platforms and certainly not
>at full speed but by
>the time FOOL does come
>out MacOS will have been
>much more Microsized since Microsoft
>already own 40% of the
>company. As for Lynux it’s
>just waiting for some company
>to market it the right
>way and its progeny will
>become an international standard. Unix
>as a base is almost
>straight assembler so it can
>be compatible with any other
>OS if the other companies
>would give up some more
>code. Oh and for your
>question, are you speaking of
>Visual C++ window models or
>of DirectX? Fallout games have
>never used Visual as a
>base. Your question is extremely
>vague to say the least.
Not compatible with how your grandiose sweep of OS and platforms were done. I'm glad you laughed along the same line, because I found it quite laughable too.
Yes, it's DirectX. You will find that most top of the line Windows-compatible games have a tendency to use it. Others do use V C++, but DirectX has been pretty much a standard. Unfortunately, programming it for the PSX or PS2 would be a complete bitch. Even to a Mac as well.
Besides, for one change or bug fix, they'd have to patch it. Yes, online games do issue patches and the sort on a regular basis for updates and the like. Take Asheron's Call, because it's got monthly updates. A console game is supposed to handle that, even with the puny hard drives they are talking about having in them? Good luck.
As for Lynux, it's great for server applications and the like, but it's not candy-coated enough for the cattle that would undoubtedly be the market for MMORPGs.
See any MMORPGs made *nix or even Mac compatible? Not many, because it's indeed hard to do, impossible to get the same level of quality throughout with the same performance across the spectrum, and it would be a complete bitch to update upon a regular basis.
>
>>To insist that a great game
>>become some watered little kill-fest
>>world that is the entirety
>>of online games, that's not
>>the meaning of Fallout.
>>
>>This is *EXACTLY* why I say
>>you are naive and uninformed.
>> You are blissfully going
>>through and ignoring historical examples,
>>going off with no basis
>>of information or experience of
>>what you are *attempting* to
>>talk about. That makes
>>you *naive*, *uninformed*, *baseless*, *stumbling*,
>>*clueless*, and ultimately points you
>>out to be an idiot
>>for arguing about something you
>>have no experience with.
>
> [font color=#00b1b1]Again excuse a guy
>for being enthusiastic about some
>thing. I have had no
>graphical MUDs pique my interest
>up until now so I
>have never paid for any
>service. Sure a long time
>ago I used to Role
>Play chat but that’s as
>far as my experience goes.
>I’d be interested in playing
>an online game based off
>of Fallout. I would be
>willing to try it out
>and it sure as hell
>would not mess with the
>real game in fact I
>feel it would bring more
>of audience to the main
>games.
So you're just pipe-dreaming about fucking a good game over? Damn. About your 'pulling more to the audience of the main games', I'm about to get really ineloquent here, hold on.
I don't know what damn Candyland reality you live in, but if you'd take the chance of killing another great series off, you'd either have to be a complete bliss ninny or an idiot.
I'll copy in a piece I wrote a while back, don't take it as completely directed at you, though.
======================
Let's take everyone's beloved 'MMORPG', UO. Please note the sarcasm, for those who would miss it otherwise.
I've been on UO for over two years. Some of that time was as a counselor. In that time, I've met over a few thousand characters, and many I've had conversations with of various depths.
I can honestly say, that AT LEAST 99% of the players that play UO don't have a clue as to what the game Ultima is. They've never heard of it. They only know of an online game that really sucks ass compared to most decent MUDs as far as game features.
They don't know of the enveloping and enthralling game Ultima was. Yes, I say that in the past tense. I'll explain in a bit later and in depth for those who can't be bothered to fire off the single neuron in their head when they say UO is a good game, or for those too naive and just pipe-dream and verbally masturbate. Yes, I like that term. Why? Because when someone usually masturbates, their brain isn't quite in use. Hence, their mouth runs, but nobody's at the wheel. Hopefully this can shed some light their way. Of course that might just prove to be a futile task, but let's see....
Ultima used to be a fun game, and a really good RPG. The first part of the series was the traditional old CRPG, which was really more Adventure than RPG elements. Starting with IV, the series had an innovative and great story. Number 7, both parts, was a wonderful game, and had a really in-depth world.
What happened? Greed.
Around that time of number 8 and Dick's complete sell-out to Origin, plans were already being formed of making a mass-online game (and thank whatever is holy Cat got his ass out of there, smart man). Ultima Underworld 2 is considered to be the real U8. U9 wasn't that much better, but for the sake of this topic, I will lay off of it for a while.
Now, UO shows up.
Everyone flocks to it, because it's like a graphical MUD. It was still lacking in many features that most MUDs had, but it appealed because the cattle could enjoy the graphics and watching things die. This is the first introduction that nearly all of it's players have to the Ultima 'series'. The UDIC is the fan-group of Ultima, and there's only about 14k members. That's only a percentage of the UO players...
Now, whenever another Dragon or myself would bring up 'the earlier Ultima games', the poor 'Ultima newbie' as some of us called them would just sit there blankly.
When some finally DID check out the older games, they looked at them and immediately dismissed them, because it wasn't what drew them into the Ultima series.
End result? Ultima 9 was just a sorry 'ending' to the series, kind of a cop-out on Garriot's part to leave Origin. He's got his castle, why should he care? Origin had really no intentions of funding U9 to any great deal, and Garriot put a bit of his money into it as well because of such. Why didn't Origin want to focus on U9? Because UO was what made them the most money, and it made more sense to concentrate on UO2 than on U9.
So, when the Ultima series finally died (versus 'finish'), it was the most loud, most disgusting and corpulently loud explosive diarrhea upon the face of the gaming world at that time.
And then, the entire reason for the Ultima series became lost.
Ultima DIED at the time it was realized that the traditional game didn't mean much anymore to the 'fan-base'. As far as Origin was concerned, 'UO player' meant 'Ultima fan'.
As a majority, there wouldn't be any interest in the original concepts of the game, or what made U7 good. It was all good for Origin's/EA's pocketbook to keep UO going, and a flop for the main series.
Now, if BIS did that, what do you think the outcome would become of THIS series? Do you want Fallout to die, folks?! Do you want Fallout and Fallout 2 to become some sort of 'novelty' game for those who came in during the online game's time-span? What would happen once Interplay finds out Fallout Online is making more money and is far more profitable than the original Fallout series?
So then, by this incontrovertible proof, would you want Fallout to die as it exists now? (This also assumes those with the grandiose plans for wanting it online actually have a clue as to why Fallout was made, it's origins, and why it is the way it is.)
By asking for it to become some online game, yes, you really are...
Now, if some of you haven't figured out why a lot of us are vehemently against FOOL, I'm sorry, but I guess you are completely stupid, and humanity probably doesn't have any use for any part of you above the neck besides using your nose as a dust mite breeding ground.
=======================================
So if then, Fallout becomes less of a moneymaker than Fallout Online, please do the math and actually apply the intelligence you credit yourself with and figure that one out. Interplay has hit some rough times before, and will likely do so again. If need be, which do you think would be cut first? The cash cow of the MMORPG with it's monthly injection of $10 a month per subscriber as is standard, or the would-be-then-lesser RPG which brings in money every few years and then trickles some slowly in afterwards?
I've been around many MMORPG games, Alpha tested a couple, Beta tested even more, and regularly play one. I used to regularly help with one and I've even studied how they generally function.
Hoping that people won't be taken away from other projects is just wishful thinking. Once the MMORPG gets enough press and interest, that's now the focus of the name and series. People will be assigned to the more profitable venture. It's happened before with UO/Ultima. Most of the people that worked on Ultimas like Dr. Cat (whom I'm friends with, along with a few other departed pre-MMORPG Origin employees), are gone now. You'll not see their name in the credits of Ultima IX, because with the MMORPG, it was either join the MMORPG or be fired.
Ultima 9 was a 'side project'.
The audience of an MMORPG is those under 15, whose attention span can be measured with a stopwatch. Would they be interested with something that is comparatively lacking in graphics, doesn't offer the adrenaline-rush of constant combat, and actually involves them in sitting down and thinking? Of course not. But they would flock to the MMORPG in droves, thus, bringing public view to the MMORPG and widespread Internet coverage throughout message boards. See how Asheron's Call affected the UV? That's what happens, all over and throughout.
So when the MMORPG is released, then that's now the focus of the series, desired or not. So when the focus of the series is not the CRPG anymore, fans will either move over (like with *some* of the old Ultima fans), or will depart for other games. The UDIC has some that went to UO, but a lot stayed playing with the good Ultima games and also play other series. Basically now, the UDIC is much like the UV. A fan group held in limbo because what they convened for isn't being made anymore. There's talk of a possible CRPG in the works, there's talk about a MMORPG. And there you'll see a difference with the UV like with what happened with Asheron's Call. Some stick to CRPG, some went to the MMORPG.
However, I'd have to say that the attention is now upon the MMORPG than it's on Fallout. It's true. And those drawn to the UV from AC aren't all interested in Fallout, because it's not an MMORPG. That is true as well.
The MMORPG audience at large isn't interested in real CRPG games, so that debunks your statement of (paraphrased) 'it would bring more people into the audience of the main game'.
Well, debunks it save for 'window shopping'.
They might look, but not touch. If they do touch, it will be to see something they aren't really interested in, and they'll put it aside.
>> You do something half-assed,
>>it will be regarded as
>>half-assed. No two ways
>>about it.
>[font color=#00b1b1] The last time I
>was up on this board
>disparagement for a pipe dream
>or otherwise was looked down
>upon.
Again, what Candyland reality do you live in? If it's put up for public scrutiny, then it WILL be scrutinized. Flames are one thing (look up the actual meaning), denunciation and debunking a topic or idea is another. Otherwise there'd be a load of senseless blathering. Posting facts about your proof of ignorance about the subject at hand, even the ones you've made self-admitted, is not a flame.
>[font color=#00b1b1]That’s fabulous but you are
>also twice my age.
Really? What are you basing that assumption on? Or are you blissfully making more wild stabs in the dark? First part of journalism is getting your facts and making sure they're correct. You recieve an 'F' for class today.
Amazing how one who touts themselves to be so intelligent makes such dire leaps in logic. Of course, details and facts aren't important to you, I suppose, according to your Cracker Jack excusing yourself down below for operating on no facts and illogic.
>>You certainly ARE naive of what
>>you speak about when it
>>comes to certain things.
>>Naive of how online games
>>work
>
>[font color=#00b1b1]Naïve of online games, yes
Exactly what the subject is at hand. I'm glad you can come to some understanding at where I'm going with this.
>>Naive of how submitting ideas and
>>stuff through as well.
>
>[font color=#00b1b1]Naïve of submitting ideas and
>“stuff,” no.
Wrong-o. Half-assed is seen as half-assed.
You're going to be eaten up in boot camp, and then later on. I can almost guarante it. Keep going on with those half-assed and generalized progressions, and you're going to not make the cut.
>>
>>Perhaps an idiotic choice in careers,
>>I would insist.
>
>[font color=#00b1b1]Tell that to the most
>powerful men in the world,
>see how hard they laugh.
Irrelevent to the topic at hand. You do something and expect someone to be amazed at it's less-than-perfect semblence, I'd suggest you don't really know how the world spins.
>[font color=#00b1b1]You don’t know what you
>are talking about when it
>comes to this. You don’t
>know me, or what type
>of person I am, I
>can debate quite well.
I see myself about ten years ago. Rash, thinking I've got all the answers when the only answers I've given are half assembled and poorly thought-out with no basis of information or backing in logic.
When you move out from a sheltered life, and I mean into a harsh work place like the military is, then you'll either wash out or shape up.
>[font color=#00b1b1]Journalism
>is a career and this
>message board is a hobby.
>I spend a whole hell
>of a lot more time
>on my professional life than
>on a pastime. My career
>choice is simply that, MY
>career choice, not "somebody-I-don't-know-off-the-internet's" career
>choice.
From how you described your life as "third rate jobs, first rate girlfriends, video games, music and junk food.", I'm really less than impressed. Perhaps I was foolish in suggesting something that you can actually use and be hired away from the military at $90k+ a year with a juicy beginning bonus (like about $18k) to outweigh the reinlistment bonus the military offers. A reliable job where many would look at your talents and experience and to points, bid against each other to get your talents working for them.
Of course, I get some crock kid telling me how the world works, and how he knows everything, so I'll leave him to his "third rate jobs, first rate girlfriends, video games, music and junk food." and then possibly enjoying a nice bit getting accustomed to another third rate job in the military that doesn't offer any bonuses to speak of, don't get actively scalped by the civilian sector, and if the Air Force is anything like the Navy, a job that grows on trees.
Why do I seem less than impressed here? Probably because I've seen far too many low-rate reporters that are going nowhere in their job because they are, to be blunt, nobody.
I honestly see this as a waste of your talents and intelligence. The reporting field is built upon ass-kissing and favoritism, sorry to say. The technical field is relied on how good you actually are, no bones about it. You do good, submit a resumee (reporters get two things in their job in the military, jack and shit. You restore a radar or comm array post haste and do it good, then you have the eyes of the Old Man upon you. Do good, you get some good bonuses and letters of commendation.). Letters of commendation and appreciation are FAVORED by civvy employers. They show that you have a kick-ass work ethic. As a reporter, you just have to look good and write good. BFD. It gets you nowhere. I know reporters that did the command letter and did it well (practically all by themselves), and they're still third class for being in the Navy seven years. I know deckapes that have gotten third class in half that time. As a technician, nothing impresses the Old Man like opening up a piece of equipment, finding what's wrong, and then repairing it in a timely fasion. Making third class as an ET is easy. The higher your rank, the more favorable the civvy sector looks at you, and the more money you can coax forth.
Dammit, what I'm telling you here isn't just some minor bullshit. I'm telling you from years of experience. I've seen reporters go nowhere, and techs get the bonuses. I'll kid you not. Here, aside, I would not recommend anyone of intelligence to go into the journalism field. It doesn't pay well in the military, it's chancy for advancement in not only the military, but also the civvy world, and it doesn't give you skills that you can really use. With the reporting field, you're in what? Reporting. Journalism. Commentary. That's your only option. As a technical expert, you can go into a vast range of areas from aircraft control tower radar management to a computer network sysop. It's so vast and varied, being a technician. Once you have the basis, with a little more teaching, you can go into so many industries you can basically pick where you go.
>[font color=#00b1b1]My father is 60 years old,
>he has very little in
>the ways of money. The
>military is about the only
>way for me to make
>a career for myself other
>than a scholarship. You can
>take regular college courses through
>out your established military career
>and I plan on going
>to school after I get
>out.
I've heard far too many desires like this. About 70% of those who enlist. It doesn't always work the way you wish, unfortunately. I've found that almost all who go in for such a purpose end up washing clean out within six months because they cannot cope with a drastic change in lifestyle. Don't plan on sleeping either.
Journalism is a sketchy field, electronics tech is so much more applicable and in demand. Plus, it pays a LOT. My old Chief now holds a vice-presidency in an electronics company. Likely making more than I make twice over.
>[font color=#00b1b1]Oh and I also scored high
>enough to enter into the
>nuclear program when I went
>through my MEPS office and
>I was originally going to
>be an Electronic Technician until
>I realized that I wouldn’t
>be doing anything worthwhile for
>my own self fulfillment, quod
>erat demonstrandum.
Again, very naive. You might be happy, but unfortunately your choice in career might land you in a low rate, or even back out as a civilian with even less options. Or you might not find it's what you like after all. Civilian and military is two different things.
But of course, what do I know, right?
>>To bring this point back to
>>the relevent topic of discussion,
>>yes, you are stumbling.
>>You disregard fact, history, detail,
>>and most importantly, experience, and
>>then expect to be able
>>to walk forward with no
>>problem. Reality doesn't work
>>like that.
>
>[font color=#00b1b1] Human Beings are frail
>liars. I do not know
>you so case in point
>I don’t know of your
>“Experience” or if any of
>what you’re saying is true.
>The only “Fact” that I
>know of is that “Fact”
>IS relative since all of
>“History” was written down by
>Liars’ hands and passed down
>by Liars’ tongues. “Detail” is
>simply the weapon of liars.
>
>To sum up my main point
>here I will use an
>old expression. “Pleasure, truth and
>time… pick two” if you
>focus on two you bear
>the loss of one.
Well, we can go about 'fact which we can see'.
So far, you've admitted to no experience with MMORPGs, and then made a gross miscalculation of my age. No, wait. It was stated as fact. So that throws all of your statements in suspect, would it not? You've given less-than-demonstrable proof of your knowledge of the subject at hand, then turned it into some damn sob story and contest to see who was brightest. Either get back to the point or I'll lock this thread because it's another that's causing too much extra bullshit.
I posted fact about how one game killed another. It's quite evident if you'd look at it, or had some knowledge about the subject and did some searching about it anyways. As such, you do not, and have admitted so. This makes you a poor, poor journalist in observation, because you are making suggestions and arguments about things you have no knowledge about. First thing in journalism is getting the facts. Then, check your references. Then look at the facts again and see what would be the best way to present them. If you insist that 'half-ass' would still be a good way to do things, I seriously do wish you the best of luck, because it looks like you're going to be eaten alive. If not by the military, then when you get back out into the real world and experience culture shock, and the possibility of not finding a job. Or a place to live or something to eat. Being able to write eloquently and without fault really means nothing.
I've heard and seen too many horror stories and lives being ruined by optimistic kids who think they know what's going on and basically spit in the face of those who've been salted shellbacks. I can't claim old-salt, but I did take pride in having my Chief say that was how I acted.
Take this as you will, but I've seen too many Airmen and Seamen from the Navy, Air Force, and even Army, having one hell of a wake-up call when they find themselves out of their own control.
[font color=orange]
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Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
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"Robert, your time has come!"
"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"
"Don't mention it."
*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
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It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
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http://www.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
