FIFA Football

.Pixote. said:
I know very little about football - but from what I do know about the English Premier League it seems only 4 teams really have a chance at winning that competition - Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, and Chelsea. What is this bullshit...they should change the way the money is shared amongst the teams. All 20 clubs should share the revenue equally. Give the smaller clubs a chance at winning something...the same can be probably said about all the other leagues around the world - Germany: Bundesliga - Italy: Lega Nazionale Professionisti Serie A - Spain: Primera División, etc...
All 20 clubs do share the revenue equally, at least the TV revenue which is the most significant part of the revenue.

And it wasn't that long ago that Chelsea didn't have a shot at winning the league, and Newcastle did.

.Pixote said:
With other sporting competitions (I'm not sure about the States) - the worst clubs are allowed to choose the best players, and eventually become the better teams...it balances out over time, and encourages a more even competition.
Having a draft in footbal makes little sense, as players are educated by clubs and can enter the pro game at any point, and come from all over the world. Plus, there is no single overarching league that organizes everything as clubs are fairly autonomous. So how and when are you going to organize a draft? Are you going to tell 15-year-olds that they have to move to a new country because they got drafted by a bad club?


Also, don't triple post. Yeesh.
 
Bad_Karma said:
Strangely i never got really into football even though i come directly out of the 'Ruhrpott' the area in which Bochum, Gelsenkrichen(Schalke) and Dortmund is located, so a quite football heavy area.

Than again i've to shake my head about how Schalke is doing at the moment... But well maybe that's what happens if you try to completly change your team.
Yeah, Schalke has been doing very bad in the beginning.
I'm pretty sad that Mönchengladbach was so incredibly bad this season. I've always been sympathizing with Gladbach 'cause that's were I'm from :)
Alemannia Aachen isn't doing that well either. 10th place in second league. Blech.
But hey, next season I'd have the chance to see Gladbach vs. Aachen, I hope I can get tickets for that :D
 
Sander said:
Also, don't triple post. Yeesh.

Sorry, my computer froze while I sent the message, I had no idea, me bad... :look:

In Australian Rules Football, the players are drafted in a national draft(young and old) and are sent all over the place to their new teams, they often have no say in what team picks them up. As a consequence no team will dominate the competition for more than a couple of years.
 
I know very little about football - but from what I know about the English Premier League it seems only 4 teams really have a chance at winning that competition - Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, and Chelsea. What is this bullshit...they should change the way the money is shared amongst the teams. All 20 clubs should share the revenue equally. Give the smaller clubs a chance at winning something...the same can be probably said about all the other leagues around the world - Germany: Bundesliga - Italy: Lega Nazionale Professionisti Serie A - Spain: Primera División, etc...

Wait, Liverpool have a change of winning the league? That's news to me; Pool have never won the modern English league.

The phenomenon you are referring to is the 'big four' - the dominating roles held by the four listed clubs from 2004-2010. It was never really about 'only four teams can win the title', more like 'only two teams can win the title' - those two being Manchester United and Chelsea (the former due to an excellent manager and a self made financial position, the latter due also to an excellent manager and a Russian-oil-money made financial position). Since Chelsea won the PL, (until this season at least) it's always been between us and them for the league really.

Now things have changed; Benitez left Pool in a mess which Hodgson only made worse, Man City have infinite financial resources, Chelsea have entered a transition phase and Wenger's long term Barca wannabe project is finally coming along a bit.

There are still only three teams of potential title winning caliber - United, Chelsea, Arsenal. In that order. City will be there next season, and one would assume Arse will grow in strength. Liverpool and Spur's are just behind the pack, applying pressure.

Also, no one say's 'Lega Nazionale Professionisti Serie A'. It's serie a...

With other sporting competitions (I'm not sure about the States) - the worst clubs are allowed to choose the best players, and eventually become the better teams...it balances out over time, and encourages a more even competition.

Sander hit's the nail on the head.

Am I crazy? And please don't give me "the free market" bullshit.

:P

As Sander said, there is a strong degree of autonomous control amongst European football clubs, then another degree within each league collectively. You couldn't really just go out there and make all the big leagues suffer such extreme changes at once, and if you didn't do it simultaneously, then one (or more) leagues will have complete domination of European competition until you do. There are a shed load of reasons why drafting wouldn't work.

Also, well done Arsenal (Messi had a goal wrongfully disallowed but meh). Now I think and hope they are going to get battered at Camp Nou :D On a random note that few will have picked up on (due to inherent attacking player bias within football support), Eric Abidal was phenomenal in the game and easily the best player on the pitch.
 
.Pixote. said:
Sorry, my computer froze while I sent the message, I had no idea, me bad... :look:

In Australian Rules Football, the players are drafted in a national draft(young and old) and are sent all over the place to their new teams, they often have no say in what team picks them up. As a consequence no team will dominate the competition for more than a couple of years.
Which works for Australian Rules Football because it's a single league within one nation. Football is a worldwide game where players move internationally, between several different leagues.

Another reason is that every national league wants to have teams capable of winning European, international titles. To do that, they need to encourage (or at least not discourage) talent accumulation within a few clubs. Otherwise the talent spreads out, and no club will be competitive on a European level. And if you can't be competitive on a European level, revenues shrink, which will lead to worse talent, which will lead to less competitiveness at a European level etc etc etc until you turn into Belgium.

Yoshi525 said:
one would assume Arse will grow in strength
One would've assumed that for every Arsenal team of the past 10 years or so, though, and they never really do seem to get that much better. They're perpetually young, perpetually exciting, and perpetually failing to put away opponents. 300 chances per match and about 1 goal has been their motto for years.

Still, go Arsenal!


I'm interested to see what the effect of the UEFA Fair Play Rules will be on football. Probably best to evaluate that in 10 years or so. It's a step in the right direction, but I'm afraid these rules will be easily circumvented via clever financial constructs.
 
One would've assumed that for every Arsenal team of the past 10 years or so, though, and they never really do seem to get that much better. They're perpetually young, perpetually exciting, and perpetually failing to put away opponents. 300 chances per match and about 1 goal has been their motto for years.

True, though in fairness their 'invincibles' team was pretty neat (though they stole the name, from the *much* greater Milan team of '94). At some point Wenger seems to have decided to go all out and create a youth production line, or perhaps he just lost the plot entirely - it tends to happen to managerial rivals of Fergie, just look at Kevin:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXpUdBlRZe8[/youtube]

Luv it. Shame it all went tits up for him after that :lol:

Seriously though, Wenger is batshit crazy and has successfully culled his squad of players >26 anos. He also either refuses or isn't allowed to spend money, still no idea which despite wasting a lot of time trying to find out. The dude just needs to buy an experienced and competent keeper, '' center back and a Flamani replacement maybe. (Song has looked a lot better over the last couple of seasons though).

I'm interested to see what the effect of the UEFA Fair Play Rules will be on football. Probably best to evaluate that in 10 years or so. It's a step in the right direction, but I'm afraid these rules will be easily circumvented via clever financial constructs.

Same, though from United's perspective it won't be easy. Even so, it will be a lot easier for us to adapt than many other big clubs, Chelsea prime example. :)

Going back to the (real) Invincibles. The other day I was considering the best team of my life time; the current Barca team is definitely up there, so is the United '99 team - though we weren't as defensively decent or minded as the Barca team and lacked a Messi figure. The winner for me would have to be the Milan team from 90-94 (well to some degree from ~86-, but that was before my time). They won four seria a's on the trot, and in 94 won the CL as well - without loosing a game in either competition, conceding a ridiculously small amount of goals, and scoring a shed-load. What a team! Easily the best back four football has ever seen: Tassotti - Barasi - Costacurta - Maldini plus a wonderful attack including Rijkaard, Ruud Gullit, Michael Laudrup (one of the most underrated players ever IMO; he was on the same level technically as Zidane) and van Basten (though injury and botched operations had ended it for him by '94, a farewell game was held for him at the San Siro, by the end of which Capello was in tears - a fact I feel aptly illustrates what a player Marco was).

The '94 final was a truly epic match, Milan vs Barca. The Barca team then was bloody good; Stoichkov and Romario formed the best striker partnership in the world (one could argue that the fabled RO-RO pairing eclipsed it soon after). Despite this, Milan would probably have been the favorites as they were monsters in Europe (they dicked Real Madrid 5-0 the season before iirc), however they had a lot of crucial players missing - the legendary Franco Baresi and his right hand man Costacurta were not present, meaning Milan were out both their centre backs against the best attack in the world. Maldini had already proven himself a great defender, but at this stage he was only in his mid twenties, yet to peak and still completely in Baresi's shadow. He started the game at centre back, despite playing as a left back for nearly all his career so far. Everyone assumed Milan were in for a bashing and Maldini would be raped by the Bulgarian. Everyone was wrong. Maldini put in one of the greatest performances ever witnessed on a football pitch and completely nullified both of them. Milan won 4-0. Both Stoichkov and Romario left Barca the following season. And the greatest left back the game has ever known became a defensive legend, at the age of 26. His son will probably be the captain within a decade. :lol:

Don't know where that came from; I have a bit of a complex when it comes to Milan - awe/resentment, mostly inspired from the only match I've ever been to abroad. Milan - United, champions league semi final 2007, San Siro. Christ, I remember that night like it was yesterday, still sends shivers down my spine thinking on it. We were well on our way to overthrowing Jose's mercenaries in the league, we had just annihilated Roma in the previous round (7-1 bitches!) and had managed to scrape a 3-2 win at Old Trafford against the Milanese. I genuinely thought we would take them apart at the San Siro - illogical I know but I had a hunch. Probably inspired by our epic away game against Zidane's Juve in '99. I was wrong, really wrong. We had about 8 defenders out injured, fecking Heinze was playing at centre back (unlike Maldini, he sucks arse there). It was one of the most horrible nights of my life. A thunder storm lit up the Milanese sky with coruscations of blue and white light. 80,000 Milanese chanted 'Forza Milano' with all their lung capacity. The San Siro shook. Kaka stepped forward. We got smashed apart. It was like I had been watching something beautiful being constructed all season, only to it destroyed before my eyes it a rather memorable way.

I should probably never go to a United CL game again; whenever I do we seem to loose - often in a rather awesome fashion. In fact, I've only been to 3 CL games, the first was versus Madrid at our place. We had lost the first leg 3-1 over there so we had a difficult task ahead. Once again though, I had a hunch we would knock them out. Once again, I was wrong. We played well, scored four against them. All was perfect, accept for Ronaldo. Our defense just couldn't cope with him and I watched in disbelieving horror as he scored a hatrick against us, knocking us out. You don't come to Old Trafford and score a hatrick - you just don't. He did though, and when he left the pitch every last person inside the stadium stood and applauded. Bastard. Unlike the Milan game, this didn't depress me - I felt a bit privileged I guess. It's not everyday you get to Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Zidane and Figo with your own eyes. Zidane and Figo didn't do a lot really, not that it matters - The Fat One at his best was as good as any striker ever. I saw that 'best' with my own eyes and all I can say is 'holy feck'. The third CL game I've attended was less memorable, a boring, 1-0 loss of no consequence to Besiktas.

Funny, when ever I go to a league game we always trounce the opponent.

EDIT:

300 chances per match and about 1 goal has been their motto for years.

They have improved somewhat in that area since they got rid of Hleb, whose modus operandi - in all circumstances - was to pass the ball, preferably to Cesc. He did it well in fairness, however his play in the final third was very limited in character and seemed to be assimilated by the rest of the Arse. They are a fairly good attacking outfit as things stand, they have got worse defensively though.
 
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