Fifteen Minutes with the Gothic 1 Demo

[UniversalWolf]

I had never played Gothic before, and didn't know anything about it, but on a whim I downloaded the demo. I have a few observations.

First, the game world is immediately recognizable as having connections to some Robert Heinlein fiction. Heinlein wrote several stories about a prison-land called Coventry that was divided from the rest of society by an energy barrier, and divided internally into three factions. That caught my interest right away, since I've always thought Coventry would make a good RPG setting.

Second, I've had it in my mind for a few months (ever since I tried out one of the new Tomb Raider games) that a third-person perspective 3D game could be an excellent base for a role-playing game - and here it is. Gothic seems to be close to what I was thinking. This type of system has a lot to recommend it in terms of allowing climbing, swimming, and other interactions with the game world - things that other RPGs (like NWN) are conspicuously unable to do.

One thing Gothic seems to share with other third-person perspective games I've played (including Tomb Raider) is bad combat. Aiming properly from that point-of-view is difficult unless you impose artificial aids into the system that generally make it too easy. Or at least they make it feel synthetic.

It strikes me that a turn-based combat system (something similar to the Temple of Elemental Evil combat system, perhaps) could be very effective in a third-person 3D game.

In any case, I'm finding the Gothic 1 demo interesting so far, even if it's old news to many of you.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

Gothic/2 are two of my favorite rpgs. Excellent games (They still look decent by today's standards as well).

 

[Lexx]

Gothic 1 is better than Gothic 2 in my opinion, but both games are great. I recommend, play Gothic 1 first, then Gothic 2 and then Gothic 2 Night of the Raven. The last one is the addon that adds lots of new stuff to Gothic 2 and makes it far more difficult at the beginning. I am not 100% sure about it, but it could be possible, that the addon is only in german available, with a english fan made patch that changes only the text to english.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

There's an english version of NOTR, and then there's a gold edition which includes both 2 and NOTR (also english).

They're pretty rare though.

 

[Brother None]

They're pretty rare though.

Rare in retail, maybe, easily available from almost any major digital download service.

And yes, Gothic 1/2 are great games. I dropped Gothic 3 in disgust about half an hour in and haven't returned to it since.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

Rare in retail, maybe, easily available from almost any major digital download service.

Would you mind pointing me in the right direction? I'd love to get my hands on a legit copy (and google isn't helping).

 

[Tagaziel]

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/gothic

 

[Unkillable Cat]

That reminds me, I still need to try to finish Gothic 3 one day. My last attempt got the Hashinin faction screaming for my blood before I was ready for it. The bugs did not help either. Neither did Nordmar, that place is a bitch to navigate through.

There's an expansion pack of sorts coming out for Gothic 3 soon. Forsaken Gods is it called, IIRC.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/gothic

Heh, was talking about a copy of the G2 gold edition (or english notr). I'm having hell finding one that doesn't come with a ridiculous shipping cost tacked on.

 

[agris]

i liked gothic 1's combat, thought it had a nice rhythm to it once you got the hang of it

 

[Eyenixon]

It's also butt-easy once you get a hang of it, the game doesn't have much challenge during the later portions except for the hostile Templars later on.
Gothic 2 does better in that regard, but its world isn't as interesting as Gothic 1's.

 

[Flop]

Heh, was talking about a copy of the G2 gold edition (or english notr). I'm having hell finding one that doesn't come with a ridiculous shipping cost tacked on.

Gothic Universe includes Gothic 2 Gold, so unless you already have 1 and 3 or are unwilling to repurchase them, I guess that's your best bet. Unfortunately there's no way to play vanilla Gothic 2, you can only play it with the expansion. I didn't realize how extremely frustrating playing a mage in the expansion is, untill I was well into the game and unwilling to start over, so I've yet to finish it.

 

[UniversalWolf]

i liked gothic 1's combat, thought it had a nice rhythm to it once you got the hang of it

It's also butt-easy once you get a hang of it...

I would list combat as the worst part of my experience with the demo so far. It's not very intuitive at all, and it definitely has the feeling of a system that can be easily defeated once you figure out "the trick." I'd love to see a game like Gothic with highly-detailed, turn-based combat.

I like the way dialogue works, except that the NPCs seem pretty fixed in their responses. For example, if an NPC doesn't like you, you can't make him like you just by being charming or saying the right thing. The characters are lacking the depth of the ones in Fallout. Take Myron, for example: you can make him like you by flattering him, or piss him off by being as smart as he is and challenging his opinions. I don't see that flexibility in Gothic so far. Not a huge qualm though.

This game reinforces my opinion that third-person 3D is far more immersive (yeah!) than first-person 3D, and that third-person has more in common with isometric than it does with first-person. Like isometric, third-person perspective is not trying and failing to convince you you're actually living in the fictional game world. Third-person also obviates the no-peripheral-vision problems of first-person, and gives the player much better overall awareness of his surroundings.

All in all, I think I'll buy Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 based on this demo.

 

[rcorporon]

The game is even more brown that Morrowind, if you can believe that.

I didn't really get into Gothic as I heard about it right after I had bought Morrowind, and as a result I didn't really get into it.

 

[B5C]

The first two gothic games are great! Don't you all remember the poor old chap name "Marvin?"

If you all have Gothic 3 you all should go to http://www.worldofgothic.com/ and try out the community patch. They fixed a lot of bug, but not all of them.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The game is even more brown that Morrowind, if you can believe that.

Yes, but is it as brown as Arx Fatalis?

 

[agris]

I would list combat as the worst part of my experience with the demo so far. It's not very intuitive at all, and it definitely has the feeling of a system that can be easily defeated once you figure out "the trick." I'd love to see....

It's hard to relate to that because I've played the game for so long. The 'trick' is just realizing that each enemy has a specific way of attacking (timing/aggressiveness), and once you recognize the pattern you just exploit it. Sure, it's not a shining gem of a system; but it's not bad. Maybe it will grow on you, it grew on me.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

The combat is terrible when you first start, but as others have said; it gets much better once you master the timing and learn the enemies, it's a great system.

 

[UniversalWolf]

The combat is terrible when you first start, but as others have said; it gets much better once you master the timing and learn the enemies, it's a great system.

I agree that it has become more fun as I get better at it and I acquire better equipment. I still don't love it though.

The whole idea of luring single critters away from the pack all the time is a bit of a bummer. It's very artificial and annoying. I know they're dumb beasts, but they should at least attack in packs, or stalk the PC, or attack from ambush, or have some kind of strategy. Maybe this gets better in the parts beyond the demo.

The way the opponent moves in circles around the PC is really weird, too. At least the PC kind of "auto aims" to keep up with it, but it's still very artificial.

Murdering the two diggers who are loafing just outside the camp was more entertaining than I expected. It's nice that you can beat a human opponent without killing him. The coup de grace move is fun, though.

I definitely like the game. The positives far outweigh the negatives.
----
EDIT:

The name of Heinlein's fictional prison-land is Coventry, not Covenant. I've updated my first post to rectify that error.

If you like Gothic and haven't read the story, I recommend it. I have it in an old sci-fi short story compilation (c.1965) called Beyond Tomorrow, edited by Damon Knight. Here's Knight's intro to Coventry:

"Coventry," although it can be read by itself, is a companion piece to Robert A. Heinlein's novel If This Goes On..., in which he describes the overthrow of a religious dictatorship in the United States. Here, in a story which takes place about fifty years later, Heinlein deals with the question of the "good society." How would it work? Would it be a society in which everyone agrees not to use force? Then how would it deal with lawbreakers?

Classic old sci-fi is great stuff.

I see there's a compilation out called Gothic Universe that bundles Gothic 1, Gothic 2, the Gothic 2 expansion, and Gothic 3. I'll probably go that route.

 

[Eyenixon]

The combat is terrible when you first start, but as others have said; it gets much better once you master the timing and learn the enemies, it's a great system.

I agree that it has become more fun as I get better at it and I acquire better equipment. I still don't love it though.

The whole idea of luring single critters away from the pack all the time is a bit of a bummer. It's very artificial and annoying. I know they're dumb beasts, but they should at least attack in packs, or stalk the PC, or attack from ambush, or have some kind of strategy. Maybe this gets better in the parts beyond the demo.

The way the opponent moves in circles around the PC is really weird, too. At least the PC kind of "auto aims" to keep up with it, but it's still very artificial.

Murdering the two diggers who are loafing just outside the camp was more entertaining than I expected. It's nice that you can beat a human opponent without killing him. The coup de grace move is fun, though.

I definitely like the game. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

The combat is somewhat improved in the second game but it definitely isn't the Gothic series' strong suit, I'm a big fan of the Gothic series and I'm one of those gamers who're entirely bitter about it not receiving as warm a reception as Morrowind, which in my opinion was an inferior game, however, I never really enjoyed the combat all that much, it does improve in the late game once you can take on more than one enemy and you have to dodge liberally in order to avoid hits from all sides, but it never does quite reach greatness.