Fixing the walls in Mordino Casino - mapper questions

[lujo]

Ok, so this has plagued me for almost half my life now XD

The mordino casino 2nd floor has see through and shoot through walls sections even though all the walls are correctly set. The problem is the north wall of the main mordino room - it's see through and shoot through in places, and this is a problem because of how mordino is scripted (and in general). It's possible that the whole room is problematic.

I've tested it, and it seems I could only shoot through the northern bookshelf.

Andother strange quirk is that aiming down the nothern hallway registers that line of sight is blocked by something at the very edge of the corner, and it causes really strange aiming situations.

Right next to that wall are 5 things - a chair, 2 large bookshelves, a bed, and a lamp.

I think the mapper automaticaly places invisible blockers related to the objects, and since some are shoot through and some are not, an overlap could be interfearing with the walls. I also see a red hex indicating an invisible blocker in the corner hex where I'm not able to aim properly.

If I remove the walls for testing purposes, some of these blockers remain.

I checked the shelves, chair and items, and it's all shoot through.

Theree things could be causing it (and simmilar situations elsewhere):

1) The scenery related blockers are interfearing with the wall related blockers and are making them shoot and see through.
2) Whoever made the map had placed the wrong blockers - they look identical.
3) Something about large tiles - I'm not sure they work properly for me (I am sure they crash my game at EPA, so I can't test it)



So my question is - how do i edit blockers in Mapper? I can see them if I uncheck the "hexes" box, and I can place them, but I can' seem to select or edit them.

And an unrelated mapper question - how do I place and delete roof?

 

[.Pixote.]

Picture please - most likely a shoot through wall blocker has been placed, where it should be a normal wall blocker.

Go to walls in the mapper - find proto 620 (wall blocker) - proto 621 is the (shoot through wall blocker) - both appear invisible in the game until you go to the menu - tool - Toggle Block object view. They should appear as a green hex with a solid "w" in the middle, and a hashed "w" in the middle.

Shoot through wall blockers are used with the wooden fences, low rail fence, etc.

You can't edit blockers in Mapper.

 

[lujo]

@.Pixote. That was EXTREMELY helpful



Ha! I've been reporting this forever and it was always "god know's what's causing it" and "never had that problem" and "must be some other mod" -.-

Ok, so what's the best way to fix these two things? The shoot through marker can either be deleted or replaced or something, what about the jutting red corner? It's causing improbable aiming sillyness. How do I fix that?

And also - if anyone can spot any other anomalies on that pictur it'd be much appreciated, I've been tired of bugs and crashes in this scene years ago XD

 

[NovaRain]

And also - if anyone can spot any other anomalies on that pictur it'd be much appreciated, I've been tired of bugs and crashes in this scene years ago XD

Hmm, there's a red blocker near the large table that shouldn't be there IMO. No wonder why I have to melee Mordino guy next to it.

 

[lujo]

Ok, how to deal with the two red blockers (how to get rid of them at all?)) The S thingy which was making walls shoot-through is easy to delete, I think that'd fix it.

EDIT: The red spot next to the table is where a mordino guy is standing. The one I crossed out w purple, however, is a complete mystery.


EDIT: This is actualy misterious, I've deleted all the walls in that corner and the red square which I can't seem to select in any way is still there somehow. 2 of them. There's NOTHING there, yet it's blocked!



And I think I understood what you mean, there's a guy who seems to be boxed in by chairs in the south corner, if I'm not mistaken.

EDIT: And I think I got it now ^^ those were wall blockers, but they wouldn't show up if I turned walls on, because the place is so cramped. So I have to delete a few walls, delete those, put walls back.

 

[lujo]

All right, looks like I'm the designated guy in charge of patching up walls around here. I got another nasty bit of work that's apparently been affecting another fight - Mariposa!



The two purpled out wall blockers are supposed to be shoot through, but for some reason someone set their flags to NOT be shoot through. This then causes you to not be able to aim down the corridor at the advancing mutants (just happened to me). It's a bit difficult to see and edit, because you have to remove a wall or two to acess it as far as I can tell, but it's fixable.





Now, the bigger and more important questions is - why are the mutants advancing if I'm on this on this side of the corridor? To that - I have no answer, yet. Because if you fight the mutants at the end of the coridor going south from the elevator - the other guys aren't supposed to see you. I'm actually having bigass trouble trying to make guys who don't see you come join a fight in other places (namely the raiders captains). And only about half of the mutants from the room where there's a lot of them go, other ones stay where they are the entire time. Which is telling me there's a really hard to find problem in the walls, which I will probably dig up one day as it beats sudoku.

EDIT: The extra weird part is that only SOME of the mutants who can't see you advance, while other's don't. And once the ones who advance get killed, you can end combat and later engage making it strange even if the whole "team" went hostile.

Also, I suspect it's what's going on in the wanamingo mines, too, as you sometimes aggro an entire level and sometimes agro only one critter, and the scripts on all the monsters I've ever seen (through I might be wrong) seem to only ever allow them to go hostile if they see you (that is the chosen one).

Which has actually given me an idea on how to set aggro ranges, if it true ^^ Maybe some, like the bots in SAD which circle around stuff allready work like that - if you can set and refresh visibility on the dude_obj tile for each critter, hmmmm....


Anyway, I'll look into that, but that doorway needs fixing (this is 2.3.3 rp, GoG version etc).

 

[Glovz]

@lujo
I seem to remember people discussing the concept of assigned "teams" in regards to critters/npcs in their scripts ans such that if critters are on the same team it can be scripted that what affects one member of a team can affect all. Thus, this might explain the behavior you are seeing and help with what you want to change.

This is just from memory so you'll need to investigate.

 

[lujo]

@lujo
I seem to remember people discussing the concept of assigned "teams" in regards to critters/npcs in their scripts ans such that if critters are on the same team it can be scripted that what affects one member of a team can affect all. Thus, this might explain the behavior you are seeing and help with what you want to change.

This is just from memory so you'll need to investigate.

Ty, this has occured to me, and in the case of raiders it could be the answer because the mercenary captain and regular mercenary scripts seem different. That whole "quest" is strange because I'm not even sure it shows up in the pipboy and has many variables attached. But it still doesn't explain why out of a big bunch of guys with the same script attached, in many places, some of them aggro from the other side of the map with on apparent vision, while other's don't.

Some, like some security bots in the SAD actually seem to have something in the scripts which gives them vision of the places you could be standing in when you activate the alarm which makes them all hostile ensuring they will all come at you togather.

Others... don't. It's alltogather VERY strange. The wanaming's allso aggro very inconsistently - sometimes the whole map comes at you, sometimes you aggro them one by one. I'm really beginning to think that the places where that happens is mostly due to either purposeful or sloppy wall/scenery blocker placements. If it is it's bound to troll anyone thinking it's scripted or even easily scriptable.

I WILL investigate ^^

(It does seem to generally work team based in mafia casinos, though, except for some reason casino patrons are on the same team as the mobsters. Teams are messed up in 2.3.3 in a few random encounters, thogh. Metzger's goons also don't gang up on you all at once, either, some of them you have to aggro "manualy" after the fight is over, by running at them. It's funny when it's the guards at his bedroom door - the boss may be dead, but his porn stash is safe with us!)