FO3 Unlimited

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RE: Cascadego, read this last one at least.

If you want to see how hard it is to code an RPG engine take a look at http://www.rpgmaker.net/ and notice that while there are nine different projects, only *one* has actually been completed.

To make matters worse (or just different), almost all the RPGs are coded as square-tiled, Final Fantasy-based RPGs. While some sport scripting languages, most are pretty annoying to work with, using the old LORD 2 DOOR-like scripting.

I myself had to create a calculator parsing program and THAT was not easy. Think about how much time it takes to make an RPG scripter.
-Xotor-


>Ok. I know i said
>i wouldnt do this but
>what the hell.
>
>BIS doesn't seem all that enthused
>about producing more fallout-genre games.
> Otherwise they would be
>in the process of developing
>FO3 now. If FO3
>(assuming it is produced) is
>the last one, at least
>let them give up the
>code so fans can cobble
>together a decent set of
>tools allowing editing. Doing
>so wont be easy, quick,
>or provide unlimited options, but
>someone has to do it
>and if BIS wont ,
>then i guess the proverbial
>torch will be passed on.
>
>
>All along i was only saying
>i would like an in
>depth editor to be developed.
> The costs of doing
>so would not exceed the
>rewards. It took an
>open source code for FPS
>to open them up to
>fan modding (making them the
>most popular type-game out there),
>and its time the same
>happend to RPGs. Maybe
>it has, i havent been
>keepin up in RPG news
>lately.
>
>For FO3 lets see an in-depth
>editor! Anyone *NOT* want
>one?


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>In my opinion, the biggest drawback
>to Fallout and Fallout 2
>was its lack of replayability.
> After changing your character
>around, searching out all the
>different ways to complete the
>quests, and fereting out all
>the different endings you basically
>have nothing left to do
>with it.
>
>If once FO3 were developed, Black
>Isle or Interplay, or whoever
>produces it, were to release
>developer tools (map designer, quest
>scripter, art editor and integration
>tools, and a fatie instruction
>set) it would eliminate one
>of my personal problems with
>the game.
>
>Now-a-days, you have games like Half-life,
>Quake, Unreal, etc. (granted all
>FPS and not good comparisons),
>and they all have user-made
>levels and mods all over
>the internet. If Fallout
>had a similiar online compilation
>of user made levels and
>officially sanctioned add-ons, the game
>would never lose its originality,
>and would become a game
>in which i would never
>lose intrest.
>
>My biggest request for FO3:
>a F all O ut
>C reation K it.

What the hell are you talking about my simple minded friend? Fallout and Fallout 2 respectively had the most replay value of any game I have ever played. There is only so much you can expect from a game. And I feel that when it comes down to it The Fallout series lets you be anyone that you'd like to be and allows to make almost any move you want. So kiss Black Isles ass.


http://www.321website.com/members/home/data/joecafe/Doc23.jpg
 
But when it comes down to it, there is still only a dozen or so locations to explore and 2 main quests. once youve done it you have done it, the system is flexible and allows you to replay it without getting bored, but basically there is no sence of discovery after the initial play-through.

So kiss your own Isled Ass
 
RE: Cascadego, read this last one at least.

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-00 AT 01:36AM (GMT)[p][font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-00 AT 01:35 AM (GMT)

Damn, you guys just gotta find a problem with everything dont you?

BIS *CAN* make a game engine (one for FO3 perhaps?) that would allow *TOTAL* depth of editing.

Whether or not they will, is up to them to decide.

Maybe its not feasible, from *YOUR* perspective, but i would believe you would accept the fact that you arent as capable as BIS in producing either games, or editors for said games.

This is a FO3 wish list, I WISH FOR AN ENGINE THAT SUPPORTS EASY, IN DEPTH EDITING.

Any Questions???

P.s. I do not program, I do not plan on producing FO3 or its editor, nor do you i would imagine. Why do you keep telling me what you can and can not do? Why do you tell me to try and see how capable I am at programming? This is completely irrelevant.
 
RE: Cascadego, read this last one at least.

>Damn, you guys just gotta find
>a problem with everything dont
>you?

*WE* are looking at things in a *REALISTIC* way. Yeah, it *IS* possible to make the most kick-ass RPG engine that is fully editable and fulfills even the most specific of needs, but it is *NOT* likely.

>BIS *CAN* make a game engine
>(one for FO3 perhaps?) that
>would allow *TOTAL* depth of
>editing.
>
>Whether or not they will, is
>up to them to decide.

Whether or not it is *profitable*, whether or not there is a true *demand* for such a product decides that. BIS won't make *anything* unless there is a high potential in profits and that people will buy more of their games.

>Maybe its not feasible, from *YOUR*
>perspective, but i would believe
>you would accept the fact
>that you arent as capable
>as BIS in producing either
>games, or editors for said
>games.

And I would have you believe that we, Rosh and I, happen to have a clearer perspective on this topic. I would have you believe that *any* programmer finds it a pain to have to build games so non-programmers can edit them. To find a balance between power and ease of use is NOT easy, and when you are trying to set a STANDARD for high quality games and such, it is a daunting task, one best left until there is a *DEMAND* for it.

>This is a FO3 wish list,
>I WISH FOR AN ENGINE
>THAT SUPPORTS EASY, IN DEPTH
>EDITING.

And that's all it will remain, a wish.

>P.s. I do not program,
>I do not plan on
>producing FO3 or its editor,
>nor do you i would
>imagine. Why do you
>keep telling me what you
>can and can not do?
> Why do you tell
>me to try and see
>how capable I am at
>programming? This is completely
>irrelevant.

Because we are backing up our arguments with *PAST KNOWLEDGE* so our arguments aren't simply *PIPE DREAMS* rather than a logical, *realistic* view.

-Xotor-

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RE: Cascadego, read this last one at least.

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-00 AT 05:23AM (GMT)[p]Allright whatever, paste my message in yours, chew it all to hell, its all good.

Would you like to see an RPG that allows you to create your own story that is as imersive and creative as the one originally coded??? I would, i assume that most people would enjoy the opportunity.

You say there wont be one until there is demand....
If everyone got off their ass and created a demand for an in-depth editor, they would produce one because it is profitable, NO?

Fine, its not impossible, just not profitable. It might not be profitable for them to do it now, and they wont... so my wish stays a wish.

>Because we are backing up our arguments
> with *PAST KNOWLEDGE* so our
>arguments aren't simply *PIPE DREAMS*
>rather than a logical, *realistic* view.

Its far from impossible, and i would happen to stipulate that your shortcoming as a programmer in no way represent those shortcomings found at BIS. A.k.a. your past knowledge in being unable to code an RPG is irrelevant because YOU ARENT CODING THIS RPG. THESE ARE PROFESSIONALS WHO GET PAID. If *anyone* could do it, they wouldnt get paid.

Real Life Example: Could you get yourself to Europe? NO! You pay someone to fly you there in a plane, or drag your happy ass there in a boat. Does this mean going to Europe is impossible??? Yes!!! If you try and do it yourself...

It is *STUPID* not just *IGNORANT* to believe what you can't do, no one else can either (especially professionals).

If i am wrong about an in-depth editor being able to create a good RPG then im *IGNORANT* i dont know shit about it.

yea, change your sig. PAS: People Against Stupidity.


It has to start somewhere, what better place then here?

P.s. I apologize for becoming frustrated... however is seems as though from the very beginned of the thread (maybe we all should review) all i have heard is negativity pertaining to what i feel would be an extremely useful, and profitible tool.
 
RE: Cascadego, read this last one at least.

>Allright whatever, paste my message in
>yours, chew it all to
>hell, its all good.
>
>Would you like to see an
>RPG that allows you to
>create your own story that
>is as imersive and creative
>as the one originally coded???
> I would, i assume
>that most people would enjoy
>the opportunity.

I'd rather see the source code released than a scriptable engine, you can achieve better effects with that.

>You say there wont be one
>until there is demand....
>If everyone got off their ass
>and created a demand for
>an in-depth editor, they would
>produce one because it is
>profitable, NO?

Yeah but do you see that coming any time soon? With a market geared towards action games, and the fact that within this small RPG market many people don't have the time, patience or even the creativity to make an RPG, let alone find anyone who will PLAY it, you're looking at a very small market to sell this engine to. No it is not profitable. If every RPG gamer wanted it, they probably wouldn't make one.

>>Because we are backing up our arguments
>> with *PAST KNOWLEDGE* so our
>>arguments aren't simply *PIPE DREAMS*
>>rather than a logical, *realistic* view.
>
>Its far from impossible, and i
>would happen to stipulate that
>your shortcoming as a programmer
>in no way represent those
>shortcomings found at BIS.
>A.k.a. your past knowledge
>in being unable to code
>an RPG is irrelevant because
>YOU ARENT CODING THIS RPG.
> THESE ARE PROFESSIONALS WHO
>GET PAID. If *anyone*
>could do it, they wouldnt
>get paid.

I'm sure you are one to stipulate. Let me give you some advice, don't say something is easy, even for professionals, unless you know what you are talking about. Engineering a new programming language is a pain in the ass, even for a professional. Nobody just makes one so they can code their game, it is WAY easier to work with the code itself, and furthermore you are not limited by the scripting language.

BIS *could* make a scripting language for their game, yes, they probably have the means to do it. However that delays production, and also hampers the RPG coders. No longer can they get down and dirty with the code, they can only work with the scripting language which can't, for example, create its own hardware-based graphics effects. Ever play Planescape Torment? Ever take a look at the spells? How do you expect to be able to script such effects? You can't.

Or how about Starcraft? The game included a well-made map editor with full scripting to a point. However how long did it take Blizzard to make that game? About three years, and they were looking at HUGE profits, which they earned. There IS no demand for such a system, except by people like you, and even then I doubt you'd take advantage of it.

And look at Starcraft's scripting engine, it is WAY simplistic. Would you want something THAT simple and inane to run your RPG? Even full-out RPG creators like Unlimited Adventures has major limitations.

Do you even expect BIS to even work with such products to make their RPG? They'd probably demand more.

>Real Life Example: Could you
>get yourself to Europe?
>NO! You pay someone
>to fly you there in
>a plane, or drag your
>happy ass there in a
>boat. Does this mean
>going to Europe is impossible???
>Yes!!! If you try and
>do it yourself...

Completely irrelevent, and not even a good example.

>It is *STUPID* not just *IGNORANT*
>to believe what you can't
>do, no one else can
>either (especially professionals).

But it is *STUPID* to believe it will be done simply for the fact that it *can* be done. No it is not impossible, but it is NOT LIKELY.

>If i am wrong about an
>in-depth editor being able to
>create a good RPG then
>im *IGNORANT* i dont know
>shit about it.

Maybe you should learn about something before you call it easy to do. Don't be a back-seat (non)programmer.

>yea, change your sig. PAS:
>People Against Stupidity.

I dunno, I keep seeing shining examples of it more and more...

>P.s. I apologize for becoming
>frustrated... however is seems as
>though from the very beginned
>of the thread (maybe we
>all should review) all i
>have heard is negativity pertaining
>to what i feel would
>be an extremely useful, and
>profitible tool.

Useful, yes, profitable, no. Do you think Unlimited Adventures did very well? Not really. I almost doubt you've heard of it.

-Xotor-

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RE: Cascadego, read this last one at least.

Fallout 2 did have a scripting engine built in. I think it was used for stuff like conversations and quests. Nobodys done a proper decoding job on them yet to the best of my knowledge.
 
RE: Cascadego, read this last one at least.

>Fallout 2 did have a scripting
>engine built in. I
>think it was used for
>stuff like conversations and quests.
> Nobodys done a proper
>decoding job on them yet
>to the best of my
>knowledge.

However those are tied to the built-in procedures for the areas they pertain to. To my knowledge they do not control conversation (no text), and control alliances between units along with timed movement (like the kids running around). The important parts are hard coded into the program.

-Xotor-

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RE: Cascadego, read this last one at least.

The actual conversayions are stored in text files and are called by the game or by the script. I don't know which. Alliances are controlled by a value in the map. The timed movements is either script or game code again I don't know which.

The quests are in a text file and the map file and probably in the script as well. Decoding scripts isn't easy and I'm no hacker.
 
wops,

i should have read through this post before i posted mine :)


an editor i would want. still not one game from interplay or blackisle has been as good as fao, and that maybe cus' the team left to start troika.
 
what are you talking about, fallout is my favorite rpg of all time, beats the shit out of baldurs gate and the others. its soo GREAT in fact i want to be able to make it better, or at least try.. in other words, what i tried to say in my first post.
 
what are you talking about, fallout is my favorite rpg of all time, beats the shit out of baldurs gate and the others. its soo GREAT in fact i want to be able to make it better, or at least try.. in other words, what i tried to say in my first post.
 
>what are you talking about, fallout
>is my favorite rpg of
>all time, beats the shit
>out of baldurs gate
>and the others. its
>soo GREAT in fact i
>want to be able to
>make it better, or at
>least try.. in other words,
>what i tried to say
>in my first post.


<SARCASM>
And why not make it online too?
</SARCASM>
 
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