Food in Fallout world

VoidVector

First time out of the vault
Here's my idea of incorporate food and water into fallout gameplay. Pretty long read, so bear with me. Tell me if you are for or against it. Please justify anything you say.

The player will need food to survive. There is a hunger stat, which decreases as the character moves about. Its maximum is derived from the player’s Endurance. Food in the inventory is consumed automatically when needed. The person playing the game only needs to worry about collecting enough food. A message will alert the person playing when the player start eating food in his inventory. Outdoorsman or some other number determines the actual amount of food needed to sustain life.

Vendors in town sell food at a limited quantity but constant supply. Most of the food that the vendors sell will rot within a month. This deters people from stocking up too much food. There may be icebox that let you preserve food for an extended period.

Starvation happens when player do not take in food for a few weeks. Player looses HP and temporarily looses stats. Malnutrition can also happen when player do not take the proper food. Nothing drastic happens in the short term for malnutrition. Long-term effects include permanent loose of stats. Neither First Aid nor Doctor should be able to cure starvation and malnutrition. Only proper diet can treat those.

A Perk (should be a quest-based Perk) should allow player to scavenge food from the wild. This scavenge Perk allows players to retain plants and animal remains for food. When you get the Perk, you will see an extra button on the looting screen. Scavenging animal remains require player to carry a knife. The knife is required to cut the animal. The players will also have the option of cannibalism. However, doing so will brand the player with “Cannibalism.” Some animals, plants, and people are poisonous or diseased. Players with sufficient Doctor Skill will be able to notice that.

We can incorporate water into the game as well. Water consumption will vary from time to time based on climate, weather, and player’s activity. Like eating food, drinking water is also automatic. Although, collecting water is mostly manual.

Player can get water from fresh water sources. However, there is heavy radioactive water everywhere. Player will take-in massive amount of radiation if he drinks heavy water. Player with high Science skill can tell heavy water from normal. Equipment, such as pH paper, allows player without high science skill to determine whether it is heavy water. I do not know where you would find those in Fallout world.

Player who goes without water will get malnutrition. Without water human will not survive. Therefore, the Player is actually drinking his own urine without filtering.
Some vendor also sells unpolluted water. Of course, they can sell you polluted water as well.

There is water filter that should ease the babysitting process. It allows player to filter heavy water, urine, and salt water. Water filter will eventually fail and need replacement. When player run out of fresh water, it will automatically start recycling urine. Player will get a world map popup when that starts. The water filter should be available early on in the game, because otherwise it can get tedious.
 
hmmm you know the post nuclear world has gone too far when you need to drink your own urine.....
 
But skinning and cooking animals is part of the outdoorsman skill. So the more you have in that skill, the less food and water you need to buy.

"Two little goblins out in the sun, down came a griffin and then there was one"
 
OK, here's my take on the food question:

Realism vs playability is the oldest question in the gaming industry, dating back to the old pnp days. I've always opted for playability myself. What game function would a food requirement serve?

1. Constraint on overland travel. If you've got to pack rations for the trip, you'll spend less time screwing around looking for encounters.

2. A use for food items. I believe that EVERY item in the game should have some use, if only to give players something else to do in their "copious spare time".

3. Something to spend money on. Cash piles up to rediculous levels in both games, due to bartering off the loot. Once you've got the best weapons and armor availible and a good supply of ammo, there's not much else to buy. Making players spend money on consumables is a good thing.

As for mechanics, let's keep it a simple as possible. Make hunger a condition, like poison and radiation. It's accumulated during overland travel after the rations run out, since anyone can find something to eat in town. Rate of accumulation will depend on outdoorsman skill, reflecting ability to forage for food. And hunger levels are reduced by purchasing meals or using food items.

Comments?
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-02 AT 10:22AM (GMT)[p]I think that would detract from the over-all gaming experience. It would just get tedious.

However, it would be funny if you ate too much and got fat. If you got too fat, you would become winded if you ran too much. Then you'd have to work it off through exercising.

And while we're at it, why do you only sleep when you need to heal? Why don't you have to sleep every 24-48 hours? More than 24 hours without sleep would have to start decreasing your perception. More than 48, and you'd start having hallucinations of super-mutants dressed in rainbow armor that don't actually exist would start attacking you.

Seriously, though, if I want to eat, I'll do it in real life. If I want to drink, I'll do it for real. If I want to kill people, THEN I play a game. I don't want to die and have to reload because I forgot to save before setting out on a cake-walk mission without provisions. If it were a large-scale strategy game, maintaining supply lines could be an interesting part of the strategy. However, I think they left out eating from all the Fallouts, not because they didn't think of it, but because it is trivial and detracted from the fun of the game.

That's just my opinion, though. If they do add food needs, I'd like to see Nuka-Cola Plus, "with all the vitamins and minerals a growing boy needs. Now in cherry and grape!"
 
Interesting call on the use of sleep, but Im certain that most players assume that they sleep while traveling. Though you do raise good points on sleep deprevation, but I dont know like you said about food how much that would add to a game. I would however like to see more use for the outdoorsman skill and food seems to be a natural extension of it. Maybe what could be accomplished is the irradiated food depending on which you choose has stat altering abilities similar to drug therapies. Sort of a "You are what you eat." stat altering setup, since as years progress old school drugs will run out unless production steps up. Maybe Maybe not on the whole radioactive food stat altering thing, but if food were implemented it would make outdoorsman a worthy investment.
 
It was implemented like this in Fallout 1. If you had a bad outdoorsman, you would frequently stop in the wasteland and a little text would appear along the lines of 'You get dehidrated and the search for water takes x-amount of hours'. So therefor it made more sense in FO1 then it did in FO2. This whole food thing is something people came up with who probably only played FO2 and didn't play FO1, or not enough. I do agree however that the FO1 type, and that is mostly what you are suggesting with a few tweaks, has to be implemented. I'm against a counter for food but if your outdoorsman is bad it takes you time to search for it, a la FO1.

JR

Nunc ut nunquam
 
Very true I had forgotten about that, considering it had been so long since Id played Fo1. As I recall though it only happened if you had under like 40% outdoorsman. I definitely agree that with a little tweaking something useable may come out of outdoorsman. Like maybe you spend x amount of hours for every day of travel you make in the search for food/water and x gets smaller with greater outdoorsman.
 
So basically, your travel time gets shorter when you have a higher outdoorsman and that is explained due to the fact that you can find more food/water in the wasteland. In other woords, your more of a survivalist. Good suggestion. Might want to pitch that at the BIS forums.

JR

Nunc ut nunquam
 
i don't really want to have to be bothered with buying food and water. it would make the game less like fallout and more like the sims. it's bad enough having to plan out buying ammo and supplies.
 
Hell yeah I want food. T'would make inventory management come into play a bit more. And you know what else they should have? Those carry bags from Fallout 1. But food yeah... that would make things interesting.
 
I think this is a great idea. For a lot of the reasons above- definitely makes the outdoor skill more useful.

One could also find more uses for rad scorpions, cockroaches and dogs/wolves when encountered. This would also require you to be more careful about your inventory, how much food are you willing to bring with you, what kind of food (does beef jerky last more that iguana on a stick).

I also like the idea of the cannibalism trait. This makes a lot of sense to me, although I am not sure who would "see" this. In Fallout 2 the slavers at least put a tatoo on your forehead. How anyone knows you are a child killer didn't make a lot of sense.

This would also give more utility to some of the med packs, radaway, geiger counter and other utilities. But I think you could capture a lot of this in the "outdoorsman" perk rather than invest in doctor or science perks.

This would also add to a variety of new and important encounters akin to the water merchants in the Hub.
 
Whoa.....Whoa.....Whoa...... Dude!!
Lemme mention some RPG games with Food. Lemme see, Betrayal at Krondor (Sorry! never Play Return to Krondor! They didn't sell that here.). Well in FO2 &FO1 we count times in WEEKS! If you walk from one town to another you need weeks to complete. In Krondor you only takes some day to walk to the nearest tavern. Beside in BAK food ration could be spoiled or poisoned. That makes the Character "Poisoned" and must walk to the nearest Temple or shaman. Besides carrying Food and water consumed lot of inventory. How much food you need for a week?
Beside the filter ideas looks to "Dune" for me. Ever read Frank Herbert's Dune? (Best novel i ever read.) There are suit called Stillsuit wore by the Fremen for filtering sweat and urine thus prevent loss of water.
I agree with some dude that said we could Hunt animal, Gather Vegetable (In FO world wild Cabbage is abundant right?) and water (If you got RadX and Radaway, why bother drink Radioactive Water. So? Just let the FO3 like FO2 and FO1, No FOOD!
 
A problem with this- spending lots of time gathering food and water would eat up a lot of play time. In this the FO1 method of using outdoor to find water and food probably works best.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jul-23-02 AT 05:31PM (GMT)[p]I think the player should have to eat food - or they should leave it out totally. It's just disappointing the way they did it in FO2.
The necessity to eat would lead to:
-more survival/post-ap feeling (and that's what fallout is about)
You would take jobs to SURVIVE, not to get experience points
-player has to spend his money and cannot just hoard it
 
I agree and see lots of advantages in doing this. But do you also want a game where the character is constantly stopping to pick up plants? I don't mind skinning a rad scorpion or Deathclaw (DeathClaw Burgers! Yum!!!) but considering the game will probably go over a few years of "game play" do you have to stock food every week? Also if you want to be realistic- food is heavy, and water even more so. Plus there will be the stuff you need to figure out if the water is radioactive.

Don't get me wrong, I think that this would make the game more 'survival' orientated, would resolve excess cash issues, and require more care in packing. More useful perks, more interesting encounters and more an interesting story line. All good things. I especially like that it would slow down the game.

But, will it get boring?
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jul-23-02 AT 11:00PM (GMT)[p]I don't think that weight will be a problem. I was always carrying some food in FO2 anyway.
And I don't want it to be TOO realistic...not that you have to get all the vitamins every day.
Just 1 piece of food every day. While travelling it will be eaten automatically if you have it in your inventory or your car trunk.
And having to check the food for radioactivity would be just annoying and not necessary. The games isn't that long that cancer could develop.
 
They left it out of FO2 cause time wasnt an issue (well it wasnt that big an issue in FO1 either)
 
I agree that some of the realism will have be dumped for playability.

Consider the limits placed on combat troops because of their need to carry their own food, plus the factor that they will not be resupplied, could create some problems if we do this realistically.

Of course, vitamins might help with the nutritional requirement, and would probably be valuable as enhancers. Perhaps even too much Vitamin C can kill ya.

Taking food out of your pack or trunk would work well and the issue of radioactivity could come up when you are buying food.

The geiger counter could be used more as well. It seems that the geiger counter was only used to check radiation on yourself, and from what I remember, it was kind of a pain in the ass. More practical use of geiger counter would help. For instance if you have it in one of your use boxes, then the scroll message could read- You pick up trace/low levels/medium levels/high levels of radiation. If you are in the proximity, you are radiated.

The question would be if you have received a lethal dose. The question of radiation would be how much you can handle, using rad away to drop quota.
 
Okay, if anyone has ever played Tales of Phantasia, they know how food works in that game. You don't NEED to stock up on it, but when you do, you gradually restore HP while walking. Maybe you could use food as an option to allow the PC to gradually regain their HP, or if you had food, the amount of HP acquired through rest increases. Every time you gained HP, you'd lose some food, until you run out and your HP gain rate goes back down to what it was.
 
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