Forgive this rant, but....

[Commiered]

as a fanatical fan of the first two Fallouts, and having been exposed to the travesty (as a Fallout game) of Bethesda's mutant child, I just have to get somethings off my chest as therapy at least if nothing else!

1. Where the hell is the self parody, the humour? THIS MADE THOSE GAMES!!!! Bethesda sucks at humour, all their games are dry and serious, a few pathetic attempts at jokes notwithstanding.
The genius of Fallout was that it mocked the 1950's optimistic future, it made the post-Apocalypse of such a world equally a mix of horror, humour, cultural references, movie quotes etc.

2. The first person viewpoint is shit, and this isn't just because I'm some fogeyish clown harking back to the 'good old days' of isometric view! Modern games like Diablo 3 and Sacred 2 also use this, I don't see the whining to make those games into FPS! Fallout suits a turn based combat system, not this compromise VATS shit where stats don't seem to mean anything. The whole point of putting points into weapon skill, perception, agility etc. was to increase AP's and chances to hit in a turn based mode, not this crap! Isometric can be 3D, you can make a zoomable, rotatable map etc. so it looks good and current. But Bethesda just had Oblivion lying around so used that.

3. Endings. The Fallout series had the BEST endings of any RPG! Not only could you have multiple ways of defeating the final enemy, BUT your actions up to that point, for how you dealt with other things on your journey were also recorded! In other games it really didn't matter what you did, as in the end, the only different ending you got was based on how you dealt with the final 'evil'. Whether you slaughtered every village or helped it didn't make any difference. In Fallout you could see how your actions helped or hindered different groups, whether you had a child or not. Shit, even slaughtering everyone in a village in the first Fallout actually led to the reference to it in the ending being removed! The Fallout 3 endings suck totally.

Thanks for anyone that read this. I know I've rehashed what many have written already, but after being attacked by fanbots on the official Fallout 3 forums who would just point out the glowing dales and reviews to prove how wrong I was, I'm glad to have found a place that has actually some dissenting voices.

Finally, I have to admit that I enjoyed Fallout 3 WHEN I PRETENDED IT WASN'T A FALLOUT GAME! Just like I try to pretend that Star Wars I,II,and III are NOT Star Wars movies.

THe biggest thankyou I can give Bethesda though is that it made me install the original Fallouts again and see them as even better than they seemed before.

Thanks for letting me share at least a few gripes with this game.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Agreed on the humour.

Nothing much wrong in FP, if they had done it properly. Instead they used what they had handy and melee --> guns transition went bad.

And it's not really a Fallout game. It's an Alien Shooter spinoff


But, all of this has been discussed numerous times already.

 

[encinodude]

The problem with Fallout 3 is that it seems so half-assed, just like Oblivion. I honestly think FO3 looks ugly and is incredibly boring. You would also expect Bethesda to evolve after putting out something like Morrowind, but they really haven't.

 

[quant]

Modern games like Diablo 3 and Sacred 2 also use this,

You are talking triumphant titles there. Neither was FO1 nor 2, FYI. Some additional input, for you, without any charge:

Over 4.7 million copies of Fallout 3 have shipped worldwide since the game's debut last week, developer Bethesda announced today, explaining that the figure represents retail sales "in excess of $300 million."

Why do you think you won't find any info about the sales figures of FO1 and 2? He's put it quite perfectly:

Because if you want to use the sales figures of Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 as the basis for making a sequel, you are heading down a trail of tears.

QFT and if you could provide these figures (as 'a fanatical fan') you'd get a cookie, foc as well.

 

[Buxbaum666]

Why do you think you won't find any info about the sales figures of FO1 and 2?

http://www.nma-fallout.com/content.php?page=news-archive-05-2000

<blockquote>The sales statistics for a variety of other titles may surprise you. Fallout and Fallout 2, which are considered to be two of the best RPGs released in recent years, sold approximately 140,000 and 120,000 copies, respectively, in PC Data's tracked data. Very good sales, especially since the overall figures are likely double those amounts, but considerably below the sales volumes for true blockbuster titles.</blockquote>

Here's a sales chart which shows that Fallout sold more copies than "Planescape: Torment"!

<blockquote>Baldur's Gate (all formats) 500,000
BG expansion pack 156,000
Fallout 144,000
Fallout 2 123,000
Diablo 1,300,000
Revenant 37,000
Darkstone 75,000
Ultima IX: Ascension 73,000
Planescape: Torment 73,000</blockquote>

Something I haven't expected, but hey, who cares!

Now what?

 

[quant]

Here's a sales chart which shows that Fallout sold more copies than "Planescape: Torment"!

Torment THE Torment. Hihi....

Now what?

One blockbuster, one surprise, one sequel and six utter disappointments.

Now what?

Here's a sales chart which shows that Fallout sold more copies than "Planescape: Torment"!

Good luck!

 

[Buxbaum666]

I don't see you making a point. Your way of leading a discussion is very annoying, am I supposed to guess what you want to tell me?

 

[quant]

I don't see you making a point. Your way of leading a discussion is very annoying, am I supposed to guess what you want to tell me?

LMFAO!

My point is quite simple, a shame you weren't able to comprehend. Here, obvious point, in my very own words, just for you:

Fallout 3 is not the Fallout 3 you expected, because in the end, it is about the filthy lucre.

Only!

Take this 'lore', combine it with lacking 'taste' of a hypothetical 'audience' and you get today's games.

Both former Fallout games were utterly disappointing from a business point of view; the 2nd obvioulsy even more.

Now what?

Get it finally?

You better would...here, last try:

What's more, Fallout 3 is currently topping the sales charts on all platforms it was released on and has outsold all of the previous Fallout games combined, including the lack-lustre spin-offs Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout Tactics.

According to sales figures around 55 percent of those sales were done on the Xbox 360, 28 percent were done on the PlayStation 3 and only 17 percent on the PC. Looks like Bethesda was right to aim the game at the Xbox 360 then, from a financial point of view anyway.

 

[Roflcore]

Considering how much 144000 meant thoses days and how hard bribing the press was, its pretty clear who wins.

 

[Buxbaum666]

Both former Fallout games were utterly disappointing from a business point of view; the 2nd obvioulsy even more.

I don't think 140,000 copies is that bad. It obviously wasn't disappointing enough to not produce a sequel.

Apart from that you're not telling me anything I don't already know.

Get it finally?

No.

 

[quant]

Considering how much 144000 meant thoses days and how hard bribing the press was, its pretty clear who wins.

No. The 'mass' wins. Always.

One blockbuster

Baldur's Gate (all formats) 500,000
BG expansion pack 156,000
Fallout 144,000
Fallout 2 123,000
Diablo 1,300,000
Revenant 37,000
Darkstone 75,000
Ultima IX: Ascension 73,000
Planescape: Torment 73,000

You'd have gotten your isometric, non-linear Fallout 3, if:

Fallout 1,144,000
Fallout 2 2,123,000

IYKWIM...

 

[Roflcore]

Why is diablo in a list of rpgs? I mean its not a rpg, so why compare it?

 

[Commiered]

Quant, I don't see your point. Diablo is a click fest , an 'arcade shooter' if you like. I could give you figures that show Space Invaders sold more copies than Diablo but that doesn't mean that it's a better RPG than Fallout!

 

[Deadman87]

Yeah I have never considered Diablo as an RPG.

 

[quant]

This is not my list, so ask Buxbaum about that issue.

For me Diablo IS an RPG, btw. At least it was when it came out. Action-Role-Playing -Game and it formed an entirely new sub-genre.

That list shows one thing very well: in the end it is about subjective fun.

Read that again.

 

[ceacar99]

diablo not an rpg? well lets see here.... it has stats, chance of sucess based on those stats and a general rpg environment. i ask you what disqualifies it from being an rpg?

anyway, lets consider something on fallout 1 and 2.... they were pc only titles, produced by a company that didnt get much "air time" and hardly any advertisement budget was there(at least from what i saw at the time). while it clearly didnt sell as well as the legendary baulder's gate(which is still a sought after title today) fallout sold more then well enough to warrent a sequel and the company to even consider making a third one. hell it had good enough sales and such a good fanbase that even after the project for numerous reasons(unrealated to the first 2 game's sales) tanked a couple times A MAJOR GAME COMPANY bought the rights to the product and spent 4 years and countless dollars of thier own money on it.

also one thing to realise is that durring fallout's day rpgs werent anything like huge hits. baldur's gate and final fantasy 7 were really the celeberties of the day and generated some of the first mainstream interest in that section of gaming. saying fallout's sales were nothing is BULLSHIT when you consider it in the context that it was one of the stars in a genre of gaming that simply was not very popular.

finally fallout 3 sold well because it hits well with action fans(because it has more elements of a shooter then the traditional rpg) AND the fact that the gaming company that produced it had the power and the influene to get the game attention. many people i know hadn't ever heard of fallout(or baldur's gate for that matter...) but knew that the game was made by the same people that made oblivion and on that basis bought the game.

 

[Per]

That list shows one thing very well: in the end it is about subjective fun.

What is "it" and why should we give a fuck?

 

[Roflcore]

diablo not an rpg?

No. You can't roleplay. You can: kill, kill, kill and thats it.

I like Diablo 1 very much, don't think I played any game longer on lans, but its hack and slay and nothing more.

 

[ScottXeno]

Diablo was hardly an RPG, with it's uncustomizable characters, forcing you to be a certain gender based on the class you chose. But it still had a better storyline than Fallout 3 ever would.

And anyway, Diablo was isometric, and so is Diablo 3, so what point are you trying to make here? You talk about how Isometric would be hard to market, yet then contradict yourself by saying games like Diablo, which were wildly popular to begin with, can easily be isometric again because....... Why? Because they had a large fan base? But doesn't that still defy the logic of "Isometric is unmarketable." ? So why can't Fallout be isometric? Because there weren't enough fans? Market the game better then!

 

[ceacar99]

here is another example that fallout 1 and 2 were fantastic hits, its just that thier sucess must be looked at in context and not compared ot the lastest and greatest spam hits that slam consoles and pc.

Fallout made #4 on the list of top games of all time produced by PC Gamer in 2001. It made #5 on the IGN list of the top 25 PC games of all time[5], and is usually placed in similar lists. It also won the award of "RPG of the Year" from GameSpot, and has since been inducted into their "Greatest Games of All Time" list.[6] Fallout made #55 on IGN's 2005 top 100 games of all time,[7] and #33 on IGN's 2007 top 100 games of all time.[8] It is notable that all review scores for Fallout are consistently high and none are lower than an eight (out of a maximum of ten), with the only criticism involving its graphics. One notable criticism, however, has passed through the fan base, and that is that while the character creation allows for an extreme amount of variance, some of the skills and optional attributes are useless. Also, the early game can be very difficult for non-combat-oriented characters.

Fallout is ranked sixth on Game Informer’s list of The Top 10 Video Game Openings.[9]

and yes, diablo is an rpg. just because there wasnt much option for "roleplay" with other characters doesnt mean you didnt play the role of a champion bad ass that killed every nasty thing in sight.