Forgive this rant, but....

ceacar99 said:
diablo not an rpg? well lets see here.... it has stats, chance of sucess based on those stats and a general rpg environment. i ask you what disqualifies it from being an rpg?
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It's like you are saying that an action movie is the same as a drama movie, because there is talking and a plot in both movies.

There is no NPC depth in diablo, and the roles that you can play are severely limited. You play a killer, and nothing else. No smooth talking around situations or getting into fights or friendships because of your wording. You kill stuff. Diablo is an action rpg perhaps, but doesn't fit on a list that has a game like fallout in it.
 
ceacar99 said:
doesnt mean you didnt play the role of a champion bad ass that killed every nasty thing in sight.
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Which is what you do in, oh, about 90% of all games?

Just saying.

EDIT: Ok, strike that, I forgot about sports games... But I guess you get my point.
 
By that thought any video game is a role playing game, that wasn't the reasoning behind the statement of "this game isn't an RPG."

I simply meant, by the narrower view of an old school gamer, that the video game Diablo II was not a role playing game. It's not a turned based, tactical video game, it's a button masher with upgradeable stats and skills. Not an RPG.

the acronym RPG has become such an open ended term, one could classify any video game as an RPG because you aren't playing yourself, you are playing Mario, Sonic, Kane or Lynch, Master Chief, some knight, some necromancer, some wizard, some dude from some vault. It's subjective to the individuals opinion as to what an RPG is.

In my personal opinion, the art of roleplaying is creating a character not like ones-self, and taking on that character. Developing their personality, looks, mannerisms. What they are good at and what they are bad at.

Just because you are playing a badass champion who can kill every nasty thing on sight doesn't make it any sort of role play, it just makes it a game with cheap mechanics.
 
Ohh...so Diablo is an "Action/killing game with character creation stats", not an "Action RPG"?
 
All RPG's have action, it's subjective. In my opinion Fallout 1 had great action to it, the fights could be harrowing at times if you weren't careful and played it on a high difficulty level. You can't define action as only 'realtime games.'
 
There seems to be this aversion to games in the first person on this forum because of two failed attempts by Bethesda. What about Morrowind? I distinctly remember that being a FPS RPG and it was bloody fantastic...

Personally I don't think Fallout 1 & 2's perspective had much to do with how good the games were.

In summary, a good developer could make a fantastic and worthy Fallout title in the first person. Bethesda isn't that developer though.
 
There's a general disagreement over what constitutes a real RPG on this forum. The problem isn't about it being first or third person, though the general consensus is that third person isometric is preferable, this opinion is one I also share. Whether or not Morrowind, which is a long and generally boring game, is really an RPG, is a matter of debate. It's more like a first person 'shooter' with stats, just like Oblivion, just like Fallout 3.
 
Well thats just a minority agreeing with each other then isn't it? Most people who played Morrowind through from start to finish would place it in their top 5.

Theres no way I'm writing off Fallout in the first person just because Bethesda are shite.
 
popej said:
I distinctly remember that being a FPS RPG and it was bloody fantastic...
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Yes it was. A fantastic RPG with a lot of flaws. I remeber that 'Levitan' [sic!] spell combined with 'Feather' and some certain 'jump' spell. High enough skill enabled me to jump and fly through half the continent. Truly Great! Never experienced such a thing before. AND after.

Per said:
What is "it" and why should we give a fuck?
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Gaming, of-fucking-course. And it is highly subjective, that is why we're talking.

Public said:
Ohh...so Diablo is an "Action/killing game with character creation stats", not an "Action RPG"?
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Nailed. I so never liked Diablo...
 
I can't deny that (referencing popej's comment, not quant's). It is a minority, and even people here enjoyed Morrowind. I wont deny the accolades the game has recieved, even if my personal opinion differs from the general one. I still don't think Fallout should have ever fell into the same category of gaming as Morrowind or Oblivion. I have owned both of those games, I still own Oblivion; Fallout doesn't belong there. It should have never gone there, but I also know that it has, and I can't change that. My only beef is the halfassed job they did of it.
 
ceacar99 wrote "and yes, diablo is an rpg. just because there wasnt much option for "roleplay" with other characters doesnt mean you didnt play the role of a champion bad ass that killed every nasty thing in sight."

So that means that Doom(insert FPS here) is an RPG as well as you play a champion bad ass killing every nasty thing in sight!
 
ScottXeno said:
Whether or not Morrowind, which is a long and generally boring game, is really an RPG, is a matter of debate
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Oh, but it really isn't.

You are most likely to spend the most of your time in Morrowind exploring, questing and talking rather than fighting.

If the game had you spend all your time fighting, like Diablo, it would have been an action RPG. But you do more character interaction and questing than mashing characters to pulps.

ScottXeno said:
It's more like a first person 'shooter' with stats, just like Oblivion, just like Fallout 3.
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Oblivion is bordering on becoming an action RPG IMO, as they added scaling and heavy focus on the combat system, as well as a dumbed down questing system (GO HERE arrows for example). But this is a game that's worth debating on whether or not it's a pure RPG, Morrowind is not, as it clearly isn't a game that focuses around hack and slash like dark messiah of might and magic.
 
Well, I wont argue on Morrowind, since I have very little experience with it (I picked it up once, it was five bucks, gave it a whirl, but I just couldn't get into it. I wont say that's because it's a bad game because I know a lot of people liked it a lot, it may have just been bad timing for me.) but in regards to Oblivion, the entire game is 'dumbed' down, and Fallout 3 isn't much different. If you want to call them 'action rpg's' that's fine with me. They are games with some rpg-like qualities, and a lot of action-game qualities.
 
popej said:
Personally I don't think Fallout 1 & 2's perspective had much to do with how good the games were.
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The ISO view is the best for a turn based combat/game. And turn based combat is the best to emulate a PnP game- which was the core and a main thought of the designers.

FPP works the best for action games and shooters.

All RPG's have action, it's subjective. In my opinion Fallout 1 had great action to it, the fights could be harrowing at times if you weren't careful and played it on a high difficulty level. You can't define action as only 'realtime games.'
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Yes that's right, most RPGs have action in them. But the main direction for Diablo was action, then creating your character/stats and developing it. IMO it was an Action RPG, where it's RPG because the game depended on your charracter stats.

Diablo is a cheap RPG, but still RPG.

If it's not, then how would You define it?
 
ceacar99 said:
diablo not an rpg? well lets see here.... it has stats, chance of sucess based on those stats and a general rpg environment. i ask you what disqualifies it from being an rpg?
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Argument goes different ways. I'm one of the people who'd argue it is not. It's an action game with an RPG-like stat system. Something you could call an MMO, but the concept did not exist at that time yet. NWN is primarily h&s too, but it's an RPG first. Why? A more involving story, dialogue, roleplay. I'd rate Diablo as an Action RPG, a very different animal from a classic RPG. I'd call it that just out of respect for its impact on gaming in general, and for spawning some very unique clones that are more interesting than the original.

If that's not enough, answer my favourite question: Alien Shooter 2 allows you to create character, choose basic stats and skills and adjust them on levelup. It has an inventory system with items that enchance different stats and skills. Hit chance is based on weapon type and character "aim" stat. Damage depends on the skill with the weapon type. Is Alien Shooter 2 a PA RPG game? (http://www.sigma-team.net/games/action/alien-shooter-2.html)
 
Per said:
quant said:
Per said:
What is "it" and why should we give a fuck?
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Gaming, of-fucking-course.
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Diablo sold a lot, so gaming is about fun?
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Oh...you seem to understand eventually. That is great. I would alter your statement (in accordance with my statement) as follows:

'Gaming is about subjective fun, so Diablo and FO3 sold a lot whereas FO1 and FO2 didn't unfortunatelly'.'

Sound better now, eh?

Ausdoerrt said:
Why? A more involving story, dialogue, roleplay.
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What are the Icewind Dales to you then? Action-Strategy-Tactics-RPG-Hybrids? Or SS2? What is SS2? Pure RPG? FPS RPG? FPS-Action-RPG?

I tell you what: in the end it doesn't matter 'cause it is only about subjective fun.
 
yeah good logic.
hey HALO3 and CoD4 sold how-many millions
so lets make an FPS with flying heads! story? dialogues? we dont have enough monkeys and typewriters for that!

and it worked.
 
Erny said:
yeah good logic.
hey HALO3 and CoD4 sold how-many millions
so lets make an FPS with flying heads! story? dialogues? we dont have enough monkeys and typewriters for that!

and it worked.
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:clap: Voda plus coke, and your comment made me laugh :D It would even without this vodka ;)
 
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