Gay Soldiers never leave their buddies' behind

welsh

Junkmaster
gaysold.jpg


Ok bad joke.

But what do you think? Should a country allow it's soldiers to be openly, flamingly, flamboyantly, gay?

Does that ruin the macho image?

Will we sufficiently intimidate our enemies?

Will we have new means to torture suspected terrorists at secret and not-so-secret bases around the world?

Does pink belong in Camo?

Will it be a morale boost or morale hinderance.

Will our boys be more fashionable and stylish in their warfighting?

Will they know how to decor a combat zone?
And let's think of those famously gay soldiers- the Greek Spartans! The Turkish Jannisaries! The Knight Templars?

Wouldn't you find fighting a bunch of steroid enhanced homosexual psychotics sufficiently frightening?

Remember in Stripes when the recruiter asks "Are either of you gay."
Response from Harold Ramis- "No, but we're willing to learn."
Response from Bill Murray- "Yes will they take us someplace special?"

IS this a good idea?

Equal rights in America's armed forces

Gay warriors

Feb 24th 2005
From The Economist print edition

America should learn from its allies and let gays serve openly

IN THE armies of ancient Greece, homosexuals were prized as soldiers, though sent to fight in separate units. In Britain's armed forces no such distinction is made. Gays may serve openly, without fear of prejudice—and they seem to fight and fit in perfectly well when they do (see article). The same happens in most NATO countries. But in America, self-declared gay warriors are not allowed. As a piece of discrimination of no practical benefit, this is wrong.

Bill Clinton tried to introduce what might be called “open service” in 1993, but ended up bringing forth a backlash both against the idea and his own administration. Since then, by law, America's policy has been “don't ask, don't tell”—its troops neither should be asked nor need volunteer information about their sexuality. That has not stopped plenty of people being ousted and outed. Since 1993, more than 10,000 gay Americans have been booted back onto Civvy Street. Not a large number, perhaps, when America has nearly 2.5m people in uniform. But many of those ousted possessed valuable skills: between 1998 and 2004, 20 relatively rare Arabic speakers and six Farsi speakers were forcibly discharged after they were found to be gay.

So why ban self-confessed gay GIs? Three reasons are usually offered. First, the Pentagon fears that gay soldiers would undermine teamwork and morale. On the battlefield, soldiers do not fight for King and Country; they fight for each other—for love of their “band of brothers”, as Shakespeare put it. Some fear that soldiers would be wary of loving their gay comrades in this way. Second, allowing gays to serve openly could actually be bad for recruitment: the extra homosexuals would be outnumbered by the homophobic Americans thus deterred. The third reason is more abstract. Successful armies reflect the mores of the societies from which they are drawn, and America, it is said, is unwilling to allow its heroes to be gay.

Queer eye for the military guy
None of these complaints really stands up. Begin with the fact that there are already plenty of gays in America's armed forces. One recent estimate put their number at 65,000. Anecdotal evidence suggests lesbians may be more prevalent than is normal, and gay men slightly less prevalent. Many of these people will be “out”, at least to their close comrades—after all, military banter is excruciatingly personal.

According to a recent poll of enlisted men, more than half thought gays should be allowed in the armed forces. In the current time of overstretch, even the older, more conservative, officer class seems to be changing heart. The number of gay discharges rose steadily till 2001, when America went to war in Afghanistan; since then the annual figure has halved. As for the idea that the ban reflects American mores, polls suggest that at least 64% of Americans would allow gay soldiers.

Congress should look at the British example. In 2000, when the queen's army jumped out of its closet (so to speak), many senior officers were aghast. Their arguments then were similar to American fears now: sooner or later, showers and bars of soap were mentioned. Four years later, recruitment has not suffered; most new recruits are unfazed about meeting gay comrades. And with gays subject to the same rules governing appropriate behaviour as heterosexuals, the showers need hold no fears for happily-married men. Come on, Rummy, what are you afraid of?
 
I suggest that you read the comic book "Lysistrata" by Ralf König.
It illustrates your point quite nicely.

I think gay soldiers are not a problem. However girly soldiers most likely are.

I don't think anyone girly would want to go to the military (except for them "hawt hunks of men", I suppose), tho, so I fail to see the problem.
 
I, personally have no love for homosexuals, but if I was a soldier and they were my comrades, I'd be cool... I am blind to prejudice, and as long as your cool, I'm cool.

Discrimination is wrong on any level... I personally feel homosexuality is perverse, but that is my view. I hate the act, not the person.

So yes, they should be able to serve with honor.
 
This is the same issue with women's rights and minority/black rights. Now its all about gay rights. Obviously, there's going to be huge controvery for so many years, and then everyone gets over it. But there will always be small factions fighting it.

Then next will be robots/cyborgs, whether we should give them equal rights. The American cycle continues...
 
Yeah, the same cycle...

Hmm, and then when Bush authorizes his clone army, which would be cheaper as compared to recrutiting when you can download skills into the beings.

Clone rights!?
 
Already women aren't allowed on the battlefield and submarines. Now homosexuals are the target. What's next? I say let them all fight equally.
 
Women should be given equal standing as any soldier... Submarines and battlefields... The army is a uniform, and should not be judged for either having a penis or Vagina.

"Salute the Rank and Uniform, not the man who wears it."

And at the end of day, it comes to discipline, that is what the 90 days of hell in boot camp is about. Discipline.

In war, men and women can die by the bullet... So why not fight!?
 
Legally it should prove to be fine and not a disadvantage, even if it is confidential. The problem would be enforcing equity and diversity policy among the homophobic, as I would assume that the army has a large proportion of conservative, young and uneducated men who are likely to be troublesome. No army has a perfect record with bullying and discrimination. Covert discrimination could lead to only the toughest, openly gay people remaining, protected by the combination of law and good personal qualities.
 
I agree with everyone and can only add one thing;

If they allow gays in the military will this bolster Al-Queda or lower it? They can complain "The great Satan encourages his men to be homosexual." yet they can also say "Run for your lives!" due to extreme homophobia.

:P ,
The Vault Dweller
 
They should just drop that "gay bomb" on all the troops and the problem is solved.
 
I agree any american citizen should be able to fight...

There a tons of people who dont want to fight in a war and we are dening others the right to fight? what the hell

I dont ever want to fight in any war, but if I ever came upon that circumstance I would do my very best, if I had a gay man fighting next to me, I would expect as much from him as any other man, if i was fighting with a women, i would expect the same...

If they are strong enough to make it to the battlefield, they should be able to fight there no matter the skin, sex, or other varied preferences.

A french kid, who has lived here his entire life, says he doesnt want to fight for america becuase he is french, and america is not his country... What kind of imaturity is present in that statement? he enjoys every single right and freedom america has to offer and he doesnt want to defend the country that has birthed him?

Idiots I say, irresponsible, imature, idiots.
 
Soldiers in ancient Greece were encouraged to be homosexual, and homosexual practices were also a part of the training young men recieved when they effectuated their military service, notably in Sparta, but it was a common practice in Athens as well.

If they allow gays in the military will this bolster Al-Queda or lower it?

Why would Al-quaeda have *anything* to do with this? Ever thought about what the Khmer Rouge would say?
 
Well I think being on guard duty with a homosexual would actually help my motivation. I would definitely keep my eyes open and my fingers on the weapon :twisted:

But as for homosexuals serving in the army...well I don?t like the idea (because I don?t like the idea of homosexuality), but if the person is just Gay, and not SUPER-FLOWER-PINK-GAY I think it would work. I mean if you are gay, how in the hell would they know it unless you actually tell people about it, or show it. Walking around with a boner might give something away...but you might as well like the army...a lot...too much...

Still there is a point in the view that gay may think about something else while on duty, but who wouldn?t think about women when they are stuck in the middle of the forrest and guarding a rabbithole for three days. Been there, done that. Thought a lot about my girlfriend... :wink:

I wouldn?t like the idea that the guy sitting next to me would admire my arse more than thinking happy thoughts about sex life.

Ok, how about women in the army? Would you keep your mind on guarding the rabbithole, when you have a bunny in the same foxhole... ggraauurr. If you feel that you would be thinking...happy thoughts about the woman next to you, what do you think a gay person would do...to you. The distraction would be the same...army could walk past you when you are thinking about spanking that ass! (daydreaming...god how I loved that in the army )
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AMC COMPUTERIZED ENGINE CONTROL SPECIFICATIONS
 
But what do you think? Should a country allow it's soldiers to be openly, flamingly, flamboyantly, gay?

If female soldiers have to be disciplined and butch to form a cohesive unit, then so do gay men.

There is an imagined issue here that all homosexuals that want to join the military will be one of those Skinny Guy I hate from that show I hate kinda fags. Which, I guarantee you wouldn't even get past the door to the recruitment center.

Gays that are in the military are in there because, for some reason, they wanted to join the military. Maybe they were born into a military family, or maybe they really wanted to work with F-16s. God knows, but they're there.

Look at it this way. You can't have men openly flirting with female soldiers, right? Its risky business, unit cohesion, etcetera etcetera. Why can't gays just be held to the same standard? If people know that they're gay, somehow, and keep second-guessing motives guess who's presenting the problem? Not the gay guy.
 
I think everyone who wants should serve, but being a gay person, or heterosexual is a liability.

Gay person among same sex: distraction (doesn?t matter if you are a man or a woman)

Heterosexual among different sex: distraction also.

You shouldn?t mix gays with heterosexuals, but you shouldn?t mix heterosexuals with other heterosexuals either if they are different sex.
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Zuma
 
I really had no problems with anyone who was either admitted or suspected homosexual being in the military. Hell, the bulldyke who could heft the 90lbs WSC-3 transcievers around, and as small as she was (~5'5"), had everyone's respect because of that. One of my best solder rats admitted to me and the chief, for some odd reason, that he was gay and this was before Clinton. Since he just fixed a few hundred thousand dollars in equipment, we just told him to keep it hushed and don't sweat it, he did a lot more than the typical jarhead type. As for the limp-wristed gays who enlist, they generally wash out unless they can adapt to the lifestyle, same as most shitbags.

The drunken macho idiots are usually the ones who cause more problems than anyone else. Captain's Mast always had weekly drunks the Shore Patrol had to pick up or beat down. Meh, was fun duty.
 
John Uskglass said:
Ashmo said:
I think gay soldiers are not a problem. However girly soldiers most likely are.
Better edit that before Commisar sees it.

I said "girly", not "female".

The cliché homosexual man is quite girly. I wouldn't want to think THAT kind of character would fit well on the battlefield.
 
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