Governments (cont.)

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RE: If not by war:

>Then by greed.
>
>Though, that is really shakey, as
>a company will only develop
>enough to get *just* above
>the next company and milk
>everyone for their money.
>But greed is certainly a
>factor for progress.

In this and the coming age I'd say greed will soon surpass war as the driving force for progress and technology. Everyone will be so obsessed with milking the world that war will simply be nothing more than a bother.

My teacher once said: The best way to get back at someone is to live better than them.

-Xotor-

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RE: Actually none of those.

>> Ever heard of the chaos theory? Universe is
>> everything BUT in order.
>
>I heard about it, not too
>much, though, but, despite what
>you think, universe is reign
>by physics laws. Why there're
>laws? Because if not, it
>would be purely anarchy, it
>would not exist. How can
>universe exist if there is
>no order? No path to
>follow?
>Did you heard about the FACT
>that everything is a system
>of a major system? Systems
>have laws, if not, they
>can't exist. They're *nothing*.
>Lets see the most common nature
>system that can be found
>in space. A planet rounds
>a star because that star
>creates a dense magnetic attraction
>field that don't let the

Actually a gravitational theory, but for the most part you are correct.

>planet escape. So... It's over!
>Anarchy stops its existence because
>the planet can't have completely
>freedom because a major system
>exists, the star. And the
>star? It is constantly walking
>around a galaxy. But, if
>the stars would not exist,
>the earth (for example) would
>not have the neccessary heat
>to allow the human being
>to live. A minor system
>is created. Dependency is a
>must. And with dependency, anarchy
>stop its existence.
>
>And, from what I heard, the
>chaos issue exists as a
>form of explanation for the
>"random" phenomena, such topic human
>can't totally understand, and it
>isn't more than a *theory*.

And the fact that humans can't document every single factor that contributes to this so-called "randomness."

Only prime numbers like pi have total randomness.

>> You beleive in faith and the destinty to, don't
>> you?
>
>> Big Bang was absolutely not a thing of order,
>> it was total chaos and so will it forever be.
>> BUT, universe is not in order, it has been, it
>> is and it will forever be in total chaos and
>> randomness.
>
>Are you sure? Big Bang not a
>thing of order? Why do
>you think that?
>Who made Big Bang happen? God?
>Themself? Because they wanted? Because
>one of the enourmous masses
>wanted to touch the other
>mass?

Hell, scientists have formulated the conditions of the Big Bang like 0.000000000000000000000000001 seconds after it happened. That could not happen if it were not ordered.

>> narchy can exist, in small communities. Like a
>> small village in africa were there's no law and
>> no goverment. In that village the women control
>> their men and children.
>
>Culture is order. Childrens will not
>fuck their sisters because there
>is a primary law called
>incest. You would NEVER see
>that incest is gonna be
>made inside a family, NEVER.
>So, anarchy can't exist in
>a family, and much less
>in a community.

Actually you'll see incest in remote areas and backwater places. Hell many polygamy groups perform incest (theres some in my state). What happens is that the children that are born from incest have genetic disorders like Thyroid problems and appear more "Neanderthalic" than normal children (high brows, etc.).

However instinctually, animals do not like to breed with their own kind. A law of mind.

>> But there are still no written laws so I call
>> that anarchy and that'll do for me.
>
>It wasn't written, but it's there.
>Open your eyes and you
>will see that "what the
>majority thinks is the best
>suggestion that suggestion wins" is
>a law.

He seems to believe that a law has to be WRITTEN before it is a law. In some villages laws are passed down orally, as are stories and such. How about the fact that most of us haven't even seen the laws stating that you can't kill a person and yet abide by them because were were taught to?

-Xotor-

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Hey, Xotor...

I have heard about that document of yours, would you mind if I can see it?
(I think not ;-))
So, where can I download it? Or if you have it in your comp, it would be cool if you can send it over to me: matip@fibertel.com.ar

Thanks!
 
RE: Actually none of those.

>Actually a gravitational theory [...]

Yeah, well, THAT :D

>>And, from what I heard, the
>>chaos issue exists as a
>>form of explanation for the
>>"random" phenomena, such topic human
>>can't totally understand, and it
>>isn't more than a *theory*.
>
>And the fact that humans can't document every >single factor that contributes to this so->called "randomness."
>
>Only prime numbers like pi have total randomness.
>

One of my teachers (actually studying computers science, don't know if that is the correct translation for the career, but you got me) told me that, according to that theory, the fluttering of a butterfly in China could start an earthquake in Nort America... Pretty funny (as well as interesting), huh?

>Actually you'll see incest in remote areas and
>backwater places. Hell many polygamy groups
>perform incest (theres some in my state). What
>happens is that the children that are born from
>incest have genetic disorders like Thyroid
>problems and appear more "Neanderthalic" than
>normal children (high brows, etc.).
>
>However instinctually, animals do not like to
>breed with their own kind. A law of mind.
>

Levi-Strauss theory about the passage between nature to culture states that incest was the first unavoidable law created in human culture. The incest law is universal because it exists in every different culture, but it is at the same time personal because it changes between culture, as for example, a tribe would not allow sex between son and sister, others would not allow sex between the son and the mother, but yes between the daughter and the father, etc.

Damn, I don't know any culture that allows incest in every way, so I got to believe my friend Levi's ;-).
 
RE: Actually none of those.

>One of my teachers (actually studying
>computers science, don't know if
>that is the correct translation
>for the career, but you
>got me) told me that,
>according to that theory, the
>fluttering of a butterfly in
>China could start an earthquake
>in Nort America... Pretty funny
>(as well as interesting), huh?

Ever read the short story "The sound of thunder"? It deals with that and time-travel. Some guy kills a butterfly accidentally in the past and the future is completely different. Change upon change up on change multiplies itself. Technically speaking, yeah a butterfly in Japan *could* cause a major disaster somewhere else, but you really can't trace it back to its source.

>>However instinctually, animals do not like to
>>breed with their own kind. A law of mind.
>>
>
>Levi-Strauss theory about the passage between
>nature to culture states that
>incest was the first unavoidable
>law created in human culture.
>The incest law is universal
>because it exists in every
>different culture, but it is
>at the same time personal
>because it changes between culture,
>as for example, a tribe
>would not allow sex between
>son and sister, others would
>not allow sex between the
>son and the mother, but
>yes between the daughter and
>the father, etc.

In chimpanze groups, young male chimps are often cast out of the group to prevent incest. The have to join another group in order to be allowed to mate.

>Damn, I don't know any culture
>that allows incest in every
>way, so I got to
>believe my friend Levi's ;-).

Usually there is no "allowed" but usually some sicko father or relative forces himself on the younger, more ignorant other relative. That's why you hear about father-daughter rapes and the like.

-Xotor-

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RE: Hey, Xotor...

>I have heard about that document
>of yours, would you mind
>if I can see it?
>
>(I think not ;-))
>So, where can I download it?
>Or if you have it
>in your comp, it would
>be cool if you can
>send it over to me:
>matip@fibertel.com.ar

I don't know if I lost it when it ran off the old board's screen or if I still have a copy of the document. I've check my C Drive where I think I might have copied it and haven't found it. I think I lost it when I lost my C Drive.

If I remember right it described a world where the planet is united under one order, where wars are eliminated due to the fact there are no countries. The consideration of the entire species is top priority, and under that consideration, many private sectors are nationalized, that is, controlled by government. Such areas would be bio-medical research to improve the quality of medicines and their distribution, mapping the entire human DNA gene sequence, and providing the funding necessary for such a campaign.

The distribution of goods to needy areas of the planet, like Somolia, would be centralized and provided. With no more warlords to intercept aid, the food would make it to the needy.

The messages described the fact that the now illegal drugs would be legalized, but that the people using them would be placed in a controlled area so they could not harm others. This would practically ELIMINATE crime as we know it. 95% of police funds go into fighting drugs. If you allow it to go on, you can spend the $100 billion or so used to fight it to help those people addicted.

Race, ethnic background, gender etc. would be eliminated as causes to hire or not hire a person. All job registration would be done using numbers instead of names, in order to preserve total anonymity when concerning the faces. Only the skills would matter.

There were other things outlined in the plan for a new world order.. I just don't have them here.

-Xotor-

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After reading all the stuff on this board (well most of it) I have affirmed my belief that the earth is ruled two things: Philosophy and Physics.
 
RE: Actually none of those.

>Ever read the short story "The sound of
>thunder"? It deals with that and time-travel.
>Some guy kills a butterfly accidentally in the
>past and the future is completely different.
>Change upon change up on change multiplies
>itself. Technically speaking, yeah a butterfly
>in Japan *could* cause a major disaster
>somewhere else, but you really can't trace it
>back to its source.

Never heard of it, but, like I said, it's just theory and it would be almost impossible to have it fully verified.

>In chimpanze groups, young male chimps are often
>cast out of the group to prevent incest. The
>have to join another group in order to be
>allowed to mate.

Exactly, the no-incest law was created in order to allow a family to continue his existence by having their sons "marrying" daughters of other families and visceversa.
 
But if we change the subject then what will come of this poor extremely elongated peice of entertainment known as the "governments thread"?
 
RE: Actually none of those.

uh.. if i may but in here..... your little bit about war being the driving force blah blah blah, is wrong. why do people GO to war? The basic human need for war and destruction is reminiscent of the times when you HAD to be destructive to ensure that you had a better hunting ground or farming land or whatever. why? because people are lazy. why are they lazy? because from a primal point of view, if you can AFFORD to be lazy, then you must realy be well off. and if your well off, then you must be superior to those who are NOT well off. this is all designed to show potential mates that you would be a better candidate for passing on your genes to the next generation. Since we no longer live in a society where this is as applicable as it was before, we often find ways to vent this need for destruction. enter YOUR argument. I'm just pointing out that you were wrong in your initial statement.
TheGreatTriscuit
P.S. excuse the crappy typing/spelling
 
Refering to the earlier reference to the butterfly, he's talking about chaos theory. The reason that we will never be able to predict weather with and perfect accuracy beyond a few days is because every small movement adds up (not just weather this is an example or metaphor if you like for all chaos theory) all the humans breathing, trees aspirating, and a butterfly flapping it's wings in China cause changes to minute for us to measure. These all add up on the global scale to cause weather changes that cause a tornado in Kansas, but we can't predict it ahead of time because we can't measure every tiny motion of every living thing on the planet. However, there is a huge but. But, there are peple who find patterns in the chaos in experiments that show there is patterns in chaos which means there is no true chaos just the illusin of chaos. I suggest you find the program Chaos Simulator on the net if you are interested in these things. It simulates the stuff I'm talking about visually in a easy to understand way. It also has cool mandlebrot set stuff in it. I don't remember the site though, sorry. Just thought I'd bring this stuff to your attention.

>Zax<
 
RE: Actually none of those.

Well, to tell the truth, you just called about every sociologist on the planet a liar.

War indeed does give a pressing need for advancement of technology and many other things. Why do many countries operate so well during war? Why do they come up with more scientific advances due to necessity during war?

It's a pressing need to come up with something biger and better.

Take nuclear weapons and power, for instance. You think the testing wouldn't have ben done so much, and so many advances in the field in such a short time, if there was not a pressing need to have a big, final weapon?
 
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