GTA : Vault City & my Fallout 3 wish list....

[EraserMark]

At the request of an innocent whistle I thought I'd post this in a new thread....

Maybe I play my ps2 too much and fallout not enough, but I got to thinking after reading the Van Buren FAQ that Fallout 3 could sort of look and play like GTA meets Morrowind... I think that the happy medium between the two (GTA and Morrowind) would yield a great game.

In Morrowind you can engage in talk with EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY has some wierdo name. Only the important and relevent have names in GTA. Combine the two you have a Fallout 3. Most people wander around the town someplace between babbleing & high on Jet & just plain civil, but the important inactive people have an indicator or tooltip IDing them as approachable. (I wouldn't mind this for computers too..so many vault computers to try and science so little time)

In GTA towns bustle. In Morrowind towns are pretty sparse and static. I'd like fallout 3 to be more of the in between where I 'm not going to be mowing down insignifigants while pimping around town in the Highwayman. But If I do hit a peasent I'd like the idea of having guards/law enforcement fining me or jailing me instead of the streets erupting in bozar/pistol/knife fights.

The death and mayhem of GTA is great because that is the kind of game it is. Fallout is like GTA in that deaths are violent and gorey. Morrowind people flop over, nobody lights on fire. I'd like fallout 3 to be a happy medium, the violence isn't always uber-hectic, civilians tend to scatter quickly if they aren't invovled and for guys to light on fire to satisfy the pyromaniac nerd in all of us. I tend to like the idea of the pausable RT combat, but I would be just as happy if it was the same old Fallout i know and love.

Lastly I'd love a percent completed meter in the pipboy someplace for each town.

That said my Top 13 wish list unrelated to the above is :

1. I would love if they would implement a character importing system. I loved that about Quest for Glory and remember being half disappointed I was the grandson of the vaultdweller in 2...If the timeline would allow for it I think that could be a great feature to ensure product loyalty. I don't know anybody that liked Quest for Glory and doesn't own almost all of them....

2. Updated talking heads. I want to have to wonder if what I'm looking at is the real Richard Dean Anderson. (Perhaps even a split screen talking head with the main character if they could afford the voice over talent...(Bruce Campbell probably won't doing anything between Spiderman/Sam Rami cameos)

3. More profession and aquired perks. I liked checking my character screen and spotting "Sexpert" "Gigilo" and "Beserker" I'd like more of that. Evil characters should have more too. "Rapist" "Drugdealer" "Peeping-Tom" "Hermit" "Nerd" "Jock" "Pimp" "Serial Killer" ... could be all kinds...and it would only be cooler when it carry all that over to the next game with the import system. Also perhaps even making certain perks attainable by actions. If your character primarily uses bursting macine gun weapons, he'll be unable to get the sniper perks. If he uses mostly hth weps he'll be prone to getting hth perks. If the character is getting into trouble via conversation, then he can't get smooth talker...etc etc...

4. Keep the diversity in easter eggs. Lets get some more Douglas Adams and less Gene Roddenberry, though. I laughed a lot harder with the whale, than I did with the crashed shuttle despite the whale just yeilding daisies. I want more easter eggs that I may not spot at first and broaden my horizons because they clue me into something I may not have heard of. Lets get more post apoc film references in there too. There should be a six-string samurai, and a Kevin & Mel NPCs discussing pre-war era movies.

5. Make the cars & whatnot damageable. Nothing was more frustrating than dying from an Enclave dude shooting me from behind the car or unclean cheating feel than ripping through Enclave dudes with the bozar sitting behind my car.

6. More animations on the main character. If he's shooting up a stimpack lets see it. If he's throwing up from Nukacola, lets see it. If he's growing extra toes from radiation, lets see him contemplate them. If you lose the armwrestling match to Francis...nevermind...

7. All player contolled NPCs should be talking heads, with the expection of dogs maybe.

8. MORE cutscenes, but still practice the less is more philosophy. I think every main city quest should have a nice cutscene. I.E. if you restore power to Gecko. Lets see tha tplant come online like the tanker did...

9. Since it is going to be 3D, an optional First person view for looking around sakeat least and that way the FPS kids will buy it by accident.

10. Leave California. Where are the other at least 9 other vaults. There is no way they'd all be in California. I kept hearing from NPCs that those Vertibirds in Navarro were flying...

11. Being able to type in simple questions or commands. For instance, after T-Ray steals the car I would have asked "Before I kill you, can you upgrade my car if I buy it back from you, because I've never heard of gravplates?" I just found out about those last week & the blower... but if you could ask people about certain people in town or specific gear that could be handy. Maybe I'm bitter.

12. Keep the armor stuff the same. I liked that you don't have to find helmets, gloves and pants and etc. But if the armor is different show it. If you find two sleeved leather jacket I'd like the two sleeves. If you find brotherhood combat armor, show its different than regular on the character. Its a suttle enough that I think it would statisfy all the Fashion oriented folk who think RPG characters should be barbie dolls.

13. Keep and improve multiple endings influenced by game actions. I'd love deeper epilogues that were more like cutscenes or at least subtley animated. Make a few about the smaller stories that took time to beat like, for Fallout 2 what happened to the trappers of Klamath, what happens to the NPCs you picked up, etc. Make a few ending to go with the easter eggs. i.e. find a book by CystSkul and Eggbert that puts to rest the arguement that Kevin and Mel are haveing about OceanWorld and Maximus the Highway Barbarian.



That's my quite a few more than two cents... pardon my length...
I look forward to hearing comments...

 

[EraserMark]

A couple other ideas...

A couple other folks mentioned that the guns in fallout 3 should all have a different look. i.e. A shotgun should look like a shotgun. a plasma rifle like a plasma rifle.

More death animations too was a great suggestion. I was also a big fan of the "turning inside out" death.

One this I will say on the type in your own question thing was that that like in morrowind with using keywords, a lot of times you had to click I think up to 9 different keywords based off journal entries to find out exactly what you were supposed to do. I think Fallout could use the same sort of system. I just hope it is a lot better and they maintain the same sort of dialogue option system where yo can pick what you will say and it can cause positive or negative effects. I hope it works the same way for the journal. If I click "early retirement" as a keyword with an Overseer he'll get upset. Another thing about those keyword databases is when you review things they should have made a way for you to sort by what important people said. All to often if you looked up something important in the journal you have 4 or 5 entries from peons saying something useless and unhelpful. I'm not a dectective but I know a useless detail when I hear it. Maybe character with IN<4 could have their journal cluttered with peoples favortie colors and doodles of people in power armor and "Miss Kitty ::heart:: Chosen One"

Of course I think they should be ambitious with Fallout 3, but not lose sight of the roots. Its the near freedom to do whatever you want that makes Fallout great. As does Morrowind and GTA...

 

[atoga]

Another extended coverage period involves Medicare eligibility. If an end of employment occurs less than 18 months after the employee's Medicare entitlement, qualified beneficiaries other than the covered employee must be allowed 36 months of COBRA coverage from the date of the Medicare entitlement. Qualified beneficiaries then have 36 months from the date of Medicare entitlement or 18 months from the end of employment, whichever is longer. A covered employee must be allowed 18 months of COBRA coverage from the end of employment.[10][11]

 

[Kain]

Doodles of power armor and misskitty (heart) chose one... that's amazing! How do you come up with these ideas?

 

[Briosafreak]

Spazmo sends his regards! *hurls brick*

http://forums.interplay.com

atoga what are you talking about?

 

[The physopathic Polock]

He means that he thinks that this guy is a Fanboy idiot, I think...

 

[The physopathic Polock]

At the request of an innocent whistle I thought I'd post this in a new thread....

Maybe I play my ps2 too much and fallout not enough, but I got to thinking after reading the Van Buren FAQ that Fallout 3 could sort of look and play like GTA meets Morrowind... I think that the happy medium between the two (GTA and Morrowind) would yield a great game.

Perhaps that game is already here? Yes my friend, it is called "Fallout". You see, Fallout mixes the RPG-ness of Morrowind with a dark, gritty atmosphere loosely similar to GTA*. Yep, it mixes the basics of both games, so we don't need to engineer a hybrid of the two, we got one that fits us, thank you very much. I'll call you when we want another one, okay?

*In fact, GTA is a quasi-RPG in it's own regard.

In Morrowind you can engage in talk with EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY has some wierdo name. Only the important and relevent have names in GTA. Combine the two you have a Fallout 3. Most people wander around the town someplace between babbleing & high on Jet & just plain civil, but the important inactive people have an indicator or tooltip IDing them as approachable. (I wouldn't mind this for computers too..so many vault computers to try and science so little time)

That was also done in Fallout. There were faceless, random NPC's to fill up the map, but the moderately intresting ones had their own identities, like Kane, or the Lasher.

In GTA towns bustle. In Morrowind towns are pretty sparse and static. I'd like fallout 3 to be more of the in between where I 'm not going to be mowing down insignifigants while pimping around town in the Highwayman. But If I do hit a peasent I'd like the idea of having guards/law enforcement fining me or jailing me instead of the streets erupting in bozar/pistol/knife fights.

You would only be sent to prison in places where there was any true law and order. This was demonstrated the best in Fallout 1 in Junktown, where there would toss you into "prison" when you did crimes. I'll admit that it wasn't scripted to it's full potential, but so it goes...

The death and mayhem of GTA is great because that is the kind of game it is. Fallout is like GTA in that deaths are violent and gorey. Morrowind people flop over, nobody lights on fire. I'd like fallout 3 to be a happy medium, the violence isn't always uber-hectic, civilians tend to scatter quickly if they aren't invovled and for guys to light on fire to satisfy the pyromaniac nerd in all of us. I tend to like the idea of the pausable RT combat, but I would be just as happy if it was the same old Fallout i know and love.

There is a special slider bar in the two Falouts that could set it from "bloodless" to "extra gorey". These wern't the actual names of the violence levels, but you get my idea.

Lastly I'd love a percent completed meter in the pipboy someplace for each town.

That would kill the whole "Wanderer" feel of FAllout, wouldn't it? "DOOD, IVE GOTE LIK 60%! I R LEET!" Please...

That said my Top 13 wish list unrelated to the above is :

1. I would love if they would implement a character importing system. I loved that about Quest for Glory and remember being half disappointed I was the grandson of the vaultdweller in 2...If the timeline would allow for it I think that could be a great feature to ensure product loyalty. I don't know anybody that liked Quest for Glory and doesn't own almost all of them....

That would be a problem, because there are differences in the data. Fallout 1 charactes can't be reused on Fo2 because they replaced "Night Person" with "Sex Appeal". You really think that with the changes to the skills that JE is doing, that you can simply recycle and old, imcompatable character file from the previous games?

2. Updated talking heads. I want to have to wonder if what I'm looking at is the real Richard Dean Anderson. (Perhaps even a split screen talking head with the main character if they could afford the voice over talent...(Bruce Campbell probably won't doing anything between Spiderman/Sam Rami cameos)

Thet are voice actors! Do you really think that the fictional characters being animated by a talking head in the diolauge window are exactaly like the voice actor gining his/her voice to that animation in every freaking way?

3. More profession and aquired perks. I liked checking my character screen and spotting "Sexpert" "Gigilo" and "Beserker" I'd like more of that. Evil characters should have more too. "Rapist" "Drugdealer" "Peeping-Tom" "Hermit" "Nerd" "Jock" "Pimp" "Serial Killer" ... could be all kinds...and it would only be cooler when it carry all that over to the next game with the import system. Also perhaps even making certain perks attainable by actions. If your character primarily uses bursting macine gun weapons, he'll be unable to get the sniper perks. If he uses mostly hth weps he'll be prone to getting hth perks. If the character is getting into trouble via conversation, then he can't get smooth talker...etc etc...

You can choose what perks go with you weapon preferences, and perks were limited by you stats and skills anyways, so no dice.

4. Keep the diversity in easter eggs. Lets get some more Douglas Adams and less Gene Roddenberry, though. I laughed a lot harder with the whale, than I did with the crashed shuttle despite the whale just yeilding daisies. I want more easter eggs that I may not spot at first and broaden my horizons because they clue me into something I may not have heard of. Lets get more post apoc film references in there too. There should be a six-string samurai, and a Kevin & Mel NPCs discussing pre-war era movies.

If they are not shoved into you face every five seconds...

Me? I didn't notice/care about at least half of the blatant references in Fallout 2, but the do need to be kept out of the way, don't they.

Eggs approprate to the setting are okay, though...

5. Make the cars & whatnot damageable. Nothing was more frustrating than dying from an Enclave dude shooting me from behind the car or unclean cheating feel than ripping through Enclave dudes with the bozar sitting behind my car.

That is sheer stupidity itself. Wasn't the "Car Hitpoints" crap done in Tactics? We all know how well Tactics did, now don't we?

6. More animations on the main character. If he's shooting up a stimpack lets see it. If he's throwing up from Nukacola, lets see it. If he's growing extra toes from radiation, lets see him contemplate them. If you lose the armwrestling match to Francis...nevermind...

Well, 3D opens up these opportunties, but last I checked, Black Isle was being cautious about the animations. Why do you think that the multi-racial characters thing was canned?

7. All player contolled NPCs should be talking heads, with the expection of dogs maybe.

8. MORE cutscenes, but still practice the less is more philosophy. I think every main city quest should have a nice cutscene. I.E. if you restore power to Gecko. Lets see tha tplant come online like the tanker did...

9. Since it is going to be 3D, an optional First person view for looking around sakeat least and that way the FPS kids will buy it by accident.

10. Leave California. Where are the other at least 9 other vaults. There is no way they'd all be in California. I kept hearing from NPCs that those Vertibirds in Navarro were flying...

11. Being able to type in simple questions or commands. For instance, after T-Ray steals the car I would have asked "Before I kill you, can you upgrade my car if I buy it back from you, because I've never heard of gravplates?" I just found out about those last week & the blower... but if you could ask people about certain people in town or specific gear that could be handy. Maybe I'm bitter.

12. Keep the armor stuff the same. I liked that you don't have to find helmets, gloves and pants and etc. But if the armor is different show it. If you find two sleeved leather jacket I'd like the two sleeves. If you find brotherhood combat armor, show its different than regular on the character. Its a suttle enough that I think it would statisfy all the Fashion oriented folk who think RPG characters should be barbie dolls.

13. Keep and improve multiple endings influenced by game actions. I'd love deeper epilogues that were more like cutscenes or at least subtley animated. Make a few about the smaller stories that took time to beat like, for Fallout 2 what happened to the trappers of Klamath, what happens to the NPCs you picked up, etc. Make a few ending to go with the easter eggs. i.e. find a book by CystSkul and Eggbert that puts to rest the arguement that Kevin and Mel are haveing about OceanWorld and Maximus the Highway Barbarian.



That's my quite a few more than two cents... pardon my length...
I look forward to hearing comments...[/quote]

 

[Kain]

pretty lengthy and I do agree with nearly everything. The % of the town would lose its wanderer feel and the intrigue of trying to find out new quests.

The dice thing is just crappy 2 boot. Vehicles that can blow up arent a good idea. FoT had em and they weren't that good... However they should have a certain degree of stress that makes em stop and smoke, unable to move, and recieving full damage from bullets.

The multiracial thing was canned because (I hope) they want to make quality Male and Female models instead of crappy Neverwinter Nights style models.

Now, a bustling town wouldnt make sense, because as Chuky Kuervos said "Fallout is a dark, gritty, and full of softcore porn, world where real fallout fans can delight in its brooding atmosphere" therefore if all the towns were bustling with activity, it wouldnt be fallout 3, it would be PostNuclear SimTown. ohh lookee here, my chosen one has to go peepee! And I've got to buy a piano for these other guy!

Tho the morrowind style dialogue isnt a bad idea, I still like the fallout 2 system where you are presented with several things you can say, instead of being Mario RPG like that the character moves and jumps but never says a word.

Also GTA was designed for racing cars and blowing old ladies up! Not for a dark world like Fo3. And Morrowind is just TOO hyped up to compare to the real daggerfall, and create a medium between the 2.

Tho I'd like to see cars involved a bit more in Fo3, I'd rather get a very good game with less action and more deepness to the plot and quality than a Foos style game! With whores and cats.

 

[EraserMark]

Perhaps that game is already here? Yes my friend, it is called "Fallout". You see, Fallout mixes the RPG-ness of Morrowind with a dark, gritty atmosphere loosely similar to GTA*. Yep, it mixes the basics of both games, so we don't need to engineer a hybrid of the two, we got one that fits us, thank you very much. I'll call you when we want another one, okay?

I should have described my idea better... Of course I meant it would be set in Fallout's dark, gritty atmosphere, but it would have an interface similar to a game like Teal time combat game like Morrowind (right clicks pausing combat action for inventory changes, gun firing modes and targeting because I was reading Fallout potentially being "real-time" combat, somewhat sadly admittedly)
Fallout 3 would have comparable violent action and modern weapons and 3d world of a game like GTA 3.
I guess take the title of my 1st post into account. GTA : Vault City.. It'll look like GTA set in a Fallout realm, play like a Morrowind but in the Fallout world and keep a lot of the signature Fallout features (PipBoy, dialogue options using phrases, the indiana jones wasteland travel map, high realism, and etc.)

On the TOO MANY Talkable NPCs

That was also done in Fallout. There were faceless, random NPC's to fill up the map, but the moderately intresting ones had their own identities, like Kane, or the Lasher.

Agreed, for the bulk of Fallout 1&2 did a good job of not cluttering talkable NPCs. Lots of 3D RPGs don't and I hope fallout 3 won't be one of them.

You would only be sent to prison in places where there was any true law and order. This was demonstrated the best in Fallout 1 in Junktown, where there would toss you into "prison" when you did crimes. I'll admit that it wasn't scripted to it's full potential, but so it goes...

I think probably 80+ years after the bomb and then another 80+ after the fall of the master, towns are going to start imposing some sort of law system. Nearly everytown in the postive versions of the endings end with somebody taking control and establishing fair laws. Most all towns in Fallout 2 had some sort of law, they just all seemed to have the death penalty no matter the crime. Hell, even if it was just like Mad Max & Thunderdome and he had to face the wheel for his crimes. There is a lot of room for invention there that has yet to be capitalized on.

On Violence

There is a special slider bar in the two Falouts that could set it from "bloodless" to "extra gorey". These wern't the actual names of the violence levels, but you get my idea.

My comments were intended at the fact urban combat situations that could sometimes end up in entire casinos ending up in a hail of gun fire and knife fights. Most civis were very slow in getting out of combat zones. I think the need to duck and cover.

On the percent complete meter -

That would kill the whole "Wanderer" feel of FAllout, wouldn't it? "DOOD, IVE GOTE LIK 60%! I R LEET!" Please...

I tend to agree with you. Maybe not during the game but at the end of the game credits might be a better time. It would just give a better sense of direction when replaying the game if anything.


On the Importing system:

That would be a problem, because there are differences in the data. Fallout 1 charactes can't be reused on Fo2 because they replaced "Night Person" with "Sex Appeal". You really think that with the changes to the skills that JE is doing, that you can simply recycle and old, imcompatable character file from the previous games?

I doubt it would be a seriously huge problem. People fixed the Y2K bug, I am sure they can tell a few characters in a save game file to change to another set during the importation process. I'm not saying making fallout 3 backwards compatible with fallout 1&2 characters I thinking if they do continue the series beyond three and the story allows for it, why not?

2. Updated talking heads. I want to have to wonder if what I'm looking at is the real Richard Dean Anderson. (Perhaps even a split screen talking head with the main character if they could afford the voice over talent...(Bruce Campbell probably won't doing anything between Spiderman/Sam Rami cameos)

Thet are voice actors! Do you really think that the fictional characters being animated by a talking head in the diolauge window are exactaly like the voice actor gining his/her voice to that animation in every freaking way?

Do you think I am five and still think Santa Claus is real and David Blaine is ::really:: a magic man? It was a slip-up. I'm saying if they could afford to get a mess of famous folk to do voices for the game that would be sweet. Not to beat the same drum, but sort of how GTA Vice City had a hollywood level cast of actors voicing the game characters.

3. More profession and aquired perks. I liked checking my character screen and spotting "Sexpert" "Gigilo" and "Beserker" I'd like more of that. Evil characters should have more too. "Rapist" "Drugdealer" "Peeping-Tom" "Hermit" "Nerd" "Jock" "Pimp" "Serial Killer" ... could be all kinds...and it would only be cooler when it carry all that over to the next game with the import system. Also perhaps even making certain perks attainable by actions. If your character primarily uses bursting macine gun weapons, he'll be unable to get the sniper perks. If he uses mostly hth weps he'll be prone to getting hth perks. If the character is getting into trouble via conversation, then he can't get smooth talker...etc etc...

You can choose what perks go with you weapon preferences, and perks were limited by you stats and skills anyways, so no dice.

I'm saying ::my wish:: is that Perks we more earned by game action and not just limited to stats & skills. It would be nice if your character was effected by what the game actions, not character sheet regulation. I didn't realize the "energy weapons" skill was passed down gereation to generation. If it is I think my folks gave me the recessive gene. You don't find the fact The Chosen One is born into a tribe where everybody thinks a helicopter is a God or giant mutated bird, but yet knows how to use a computer, fire a shoulder mounted bazooka, drive a car, repair complex robotic systems all while probably being illiterate be a little perplexing? I think it would be a helluva lot more likely The Chosen One could skin a Gecko before he'd figure out that a gun's safety was on. I just think it would be reflective of the games world that the character would gain proficenency and perks from use, rather than clicks on a character sheets.


As far as the cars go, I'll give you that, but I think they should make cars suffer some sort of fault like Kain said.


As far as character animation, anymore than the occasional knife flip and magazine check would be a vast improvement. They don't have to go crazy, but I'd like them to improve the game.

I think going multi-racial they opted out of because it could foul up the plot lines not because it's hard to make 3D objects do things. Look at No One Lives Forever 2's engine that thing can do all kinds of crazy detailed facial expressions and they carry over great for cutscenes. Even Morrowind does a decent job with it.

That all said. I enjoyed the rebuttal Polock, keep it up if you'd like. You seem to have a lot of opinion and answers on what would make the perfect Fallout 3 game.[/quote]

 

[OnTheBounce]

That would kill the whole "Wanderer" feel of FAllout, wouldn't it? "DOOD, IVE GOTE LIK 60%! I R LEET!" Please...

I tend to agree with you. Maybe not during the game but at the end of the game credits might be a better time. It would just give a better sense of direction when replaying the game if anything.

I think it would still be far too reminiscent of Doom's end of level readout where you're shown what percentage of kills and secrets you had. Besides, it would take all the fun out of finding those really obscure "easter eggs".

That would be a problem, because there are differences in the data. Fallout 1 charactes can't be reused on Fo2 because they replaced "Night Person" with "Sex Appeal". You really think that with the changes to the skills that JE is doing, that you can simply recycle and old, imcompatable character file from the previous games?

I doubt it would be a seriously huge problem. People fixed the Y2K bug, I am sure they can tell a few characters in a save game file to change to another set during the importation process. I'm not saying making fallout 3 backwards compatible with fallout 1&2 characters I thinking if they do continue the series beyond three and the story allows for it, why not?

You're right, EM, the data transfer issues could probably be overcome. However, the problem of having a 21st level character start an adventure intended for a 1st level character would remain, not to mention how to account for the effects of the time that elapsed between games. If the time span elapsed between games resembles that between FO and FO2 any character from the former would be a spindly little sack of wrinkles trying to remember exactly where he/she put his/her teeth and/or asshole.

I just think it would be reflective of the games world that the character would gain proficenency and perks from use, rather than clicks on a character sheets.

There are some problems w/use-based advancement of skills. Let's say you come upon a lock. There's nothing to stop your character from sitting there and picking the lock, then locking it, then picking it, etc., 'til his/her skill has advanced as far as you can stomach doing it. (People used to actually set up macros and tape down keys while they had dinner during the old days of C64s and Wasteland.) There are some ways to minimize this type of abuse, but it's still far to easy to exploit. Then there's also the problem of actually having to use the skill in order to advance. No more having your E-weapons skill plumped up before you find e-weapons. That can get downright painful for players, and makes some skills practically worthless.

While I agree that the Chosen One of FO2 shouldn't have been able to start w/E-weapons or Science or some other skills, that was a bad choice on the part of the designers for having set up the game's background that way, not an inherent flaw in the SPECIAL system.

Cheers,

OTB

 

[atoga]

There was a widespread belief on all sides of the debate, confirmed by top Bush administration officials, that politics played a role in the decision to impose tariffs.[1] Namely, the large and important Rust Belt swing states of Pennsylvania and West Virginia would benefit from the tariffs. The placement of the tariffs was an odd one for Bush, who has signed numerous free trade agreements during his term in office. This was widely believed to be a calculated political decision, insofar as the localities that stood to benefit were marginal ones. On the other hand, both the George H. W. Bush administration and the Reagan administration had also imposed import limits on steel. The tariffs ignited international controversy as well. Immediately after they were filed, the European Union announced that it would impose retaliatory tariffs on the United States, thus risking the start of a major trade war. To decide whether or not the steel tariffs were fair, a case was filed at the Dispute Settlement Body of the World Trade Organization (WTO). Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, Switzerland, Brazil and others joined with similar cases. On November 11, 2003, the WTO came out against the steel tariffs, saying that they had not been imposed during a period of import surge—steel imports had actually dropped a bit during 2001 and 2002—and that the tariffs therefore were a violation of America's WTO tariff-rate commitments. The ruling authorized more than $2 billion in sanctions, the largest penalty ever imposed by the WTO against a member state, if the United States did not quickly remove the tariffs.[2] After receiving the verdict, Bush declared that he would preserve the tariffs.[3] In retaliation, the European Union threatened to counter with tariffs of its own on products ranging from Florida oranges to cars produced in Michigan, with each tariff calculated to likewise hurt the President in a key marginal state. The United States backed down and withdrew the tariffs on December 4.[4] The early withdrawal of the tariffs also drew political criticism from steel producers, as well as supporters of protectionism, but was cheered by proponents of free trade and steel importers. When he lifted the tariffs, Bush said, "I took action to give the industry a chance to adjust to the surge in foreign imports and to give relief to the workers and communities that depend on steel for their jobs and livelihoods. These safeguard measures have now achieved their purpose, and as a result of changed economic circumstances it is time to lift them".[4] The protection of the steel industry in the United States had unintended consequences and perverse effects: it reduced production of steel in the United States, increased costs to users, and increased unemployment in associated industries.[5][6]

 

[Briosafreak]

A) i think that he mixes way too many things, and like Pollock said overlooks many others, that`s true.

B) But that doesn`t mean one should just give a one liner as a response, remember we don`t have Rosh for now, and Saint doesn`t believe FO3 will ever be made, so it`s up for us to try to explain things in a more deep manner.

I`ll try to do that, and give some activity to this forum and DACs FO3 forum after i finish more pressing matters (maybe monday).

 

[The physopathic Polock]

7. All player contolled NPCs should be talking heads, with the expection of dogs maybe.

There's that animations issure again. Black Isle is being careful about the animations, remember?

8. MORE cutscenes, but still practice the less is more philosophy. I think every main city quest should have a nice cutscene. I.E. if you restore power to Gecko. Lets see tha tplant come online like the tanker did...

A few more, yes, but don't go overboard.

9. Since it is going to be 3D, an optional First person view for looking around sakeat least and that way the FPS kids will buy it by accident.

Good God no! I would rather <Material removed for disturbing and explicit content. Thank you for your patence.> myself then see them do that to my beloved game!

10. Leave California. Where are the other at least 9 other vaults. There is no way they'd all be in California. I kept hearing from NPCs that those Vertibirds in Navarro were flying...

JE si already doing this. Be glad, for this entails ammo contengency issues like you wouldn't beleve, and more...

What, is JE fleeing to Colorado for the crappy "regional differences" excuse?

11. Being able to type in simple questions or commands. For instance, after T-Ray steals the car I would have asked "Before I kill you, can you upgrade my car if I buy it back from you, because I've never heard of gravplates?" I just found out about those last week & the blower... but if you could ask people about certain people in town or specific gear that could be handy. Maybe I'm bitter.

Fallout 1 had the "Ask Me" feature, but it wasn't fully implemented.

12. Keep the armor stuff the same. I liked that you don't have to find helmets, gloves and pants and etc. But if the armor is different show it. If you find two sleeved leather jacket I'd like the two sleeves. If you find brotherhood combat armor, show its different than regular on the character. Its a suttle enough that I think it would statisfy all the Fashion oriented folk who think RPG characters should be barbie dolls.

*Nods* This is a rare gem of an idea, and the old Jefferson engine makes if possible! 8)

13. Keep and improve multiple endings influenced by game actions. I'd love deeper epilogues that were more like cutscenes or at least subtley animated. Make a few about the smaller stories that took time to beat like, for Fallout 2 what happened to the trappers of Klamath, what happens to the NPCs you picked up, etc. Make a few ending to go with the easter eggs. i.e. find a book by CystSkul and Eggbert that puts to rest the arguement that Kevin and Mel are haveing about OceanWorld and Maximus the Highway Barbarian.

More endings: Sure, but don't get carried away...
Egg-based endings: Nope.

I think it would still be far too reminiscent of Doom's end of level readout where you're shown what percentage of kills and secrets you had. Besides, it would take all the fun out of finding those really obscure "easter eggs".

If it shows just a plain "You did x% much possable out of 100% of he game you were capable of doing as a result of you chioces." bar, then the vaugeness does not give away many hints, but it would still degrade into a "content bar contest" rather then a role-playing game...

You're right, EM, the data transfer issues could probably be overcome. However, the problem of having a 21st level character start an adventure intended for a 1st level character would remain, not to mention how to account for the effects of the time that elapsed between games. If the time span elapsed between games resembles that between FO and FO2 any character from the former would be a spindly little sack of wrinkles trying to remember exactly where he/she put his/her teeth and/or asshole.

So it makes little sense that way. What, you want to play someone like the narrator of the "Sellout: Peice of upChuck" preview on IGN?!?

There are some problems w/use-based advancement of skills. Let's say you come upon a lock. There's nothing to stop your character from sitting there and picking the lock, then locking it, then picking it, etc., 'til his/her skill has advanced as far as you can stomach doing it. (People used to actually set up macros and tape down keys while they had dinner during the old days of C64s and Wasteland.) There are some ways to minimize this type of abuse, but it's still far to easy to exploit. Then there's also the problem of actually having to use the skill in order to advance. No more having your E-weapons skill plumped up before you find e-weapons. That can get downright painful for players, and makes some skills practically worthless.

Yup.

While I agree that the Chosen One of FO2 shouldn't have been able to start w/E-weapons or Science or some other skills, that was a bad choice on the part of the designers for having set up the game's background that way, not an inherent flaw in the SPECIAL system.

So it was the design flaws in Fo1 and Fo2 (but mostly in Fo2), not the system?

Wow, Sawyer'll flip when he hears this!

 

[Kain]

I think eraser has some good points, but again, this has been banned from discussion here and all but, allowing our Fallout 3 to have a FPV (first person view) would degrade it by a lot, it's like saying "add FPV to starcraft." Many people are used to their system of Birds Eye... Sure, t3h 1337 h4x0r33ng FPZ K33diees would buy it.. but it would not appeal as much to the real fans.

 

[Gunslinger]

Well, considering that EraserMark is new to the forum boards and he hasn't been interested to the shunned taboo of fanboy suggestions, I think he did a fairly good job at at least making some suggestions. And, to boot, he writes coherently, which is a rarity among Fallout fanboys (though I'm reluctant to label him as one just yet). You noticed how he did not just post a one-liner like, "Wouldn't it be cool if you could shoot two guns at the *same* time?", and not develop his ideas.

I think that some of his ideas, such as multiple endings and cutscenes are the better ones since Fallout 3 is bound to (hopefully) already have implemented these things. But, EraserMark, you really shot yourself in the foot with your game comparisons (GTA and Morrowind) and your idea of adding first person perspective to trick FPS kids. You see, here at NMA, there's an irrational (but entirely justified) hatred for folks who go around flashing the FPS idea around too liberally. And saying that Fallout should be a "happy medium" between GTA and Morrowind made me wince. That's a rather obscure comment if you're just going on the violence and immersion factor (if that, then you may have given a better example that exemplified either features).

So anyway, before throwing the book at you like many others have already have, I'd just like to suggest that you read prior topics and see what is uniformly accepted. That is not to say that No Mutants Allowed prohibits different and original ideas, because that is not the case. It is only mentally trying to have a new person blurt out old rehashed ideas that really doesn't fit into Fallout and then having to spend fifty replies just to show him why it doesn't work (only to be followed by another new person who posts the same thing one week later!).

Other than that, the Gunslinger welcomes you to the forums.

 

[Briosafreak]

You`re great Gunslinger 8)

 

[EraserMark]

Being there and being new....

Well Gunslinger I guess my word choice may have been a bit poor. I guess my "should" would have been better as a "could" in referefence to the game resembling a "If they Mated" of Morrowind and GTA. I just think a 3d Jefferson engine might look a little like a mixture of the two...

I made the FPS comment not because I really wish a FPOV to be there, but as a joke more to the posts I have been reading and the hate of FPS kids wanting Fallout 3 to be FPS... I guess a mix of being new and having to type in text form made the tongue in cheek comment not work the best way as Polock's comment pointed out. I just as well could have said 9. Saveable characters for use in the inevitable Fallout MMORPG....

So let me retract my "wish" of FPS and replace it with a perhaps better one...

9. In random encounters during travel, allow for a little pre battle setup if the Outdoorsman skill prompts for you to choose whether or not you will engage. At least a few formation options before you begin, especially if the combat is real time. (I guess this would only work if they kept the Indy Jones travel Map mode, which I hope they will)

Perhaps I just need to become more adept with the emoticons...
Onto Polock & OntheBounce's comments.


On the % complete meter -

I don't think easter eggs should be in the % complete meter.
While then epilogues of the endings do tell you a lot about whether or not you completed a city's mainquest to the best or worst possibility. I think A lot of town sub quests are overlooked by a lot of players. Perhaps a % bar isn't the answer, but a more hands on end screen after the epilogues. It will show little pitures of each town. You could click on the picture and it would give little text epilogues of subquests.
i.e. You click Redding. The submenu lists a few completed sub-quests. You see the sub-quest about Eric's A/C, the talking plant, & radscorpions. If you completed the quest it will give a postive epilogue, negitive if it went incomplete.

I think this would just help people new to the series get enamoured with it if they new there was a lot more to this game than just the main quest line(s). So that said onto the next...


On the action-based experienced...

I think that the action-based experience can of course be abused like Homer Simpson with his dipping bird and the Y key. You could just as easily download a trainer if you want to cheat though.
I think there are probably ways of overcoming such abuse though.
While I think it would be nice to do this for stats, I can see both points. I would like it more if these things came in the form of perks really or unlocked certain perks. It would fall prey to the same probelm but since you are getting perks once every few levels it would impact the game less and for the novice player they may not have to wade through so many different choices that don't help their playing style or character in the least.
I do think skills at the start of the game should be reflective of the main characters past. I think the orginal VaultDweller was fine, but The Chosen one is quite advanced for living in a primitive culture.

As far as e-weapons, at the point when you find an e-weapon and you are not proficent I think you are right, the skill might be useless. I do think that could be solved by lumping e-wepons into big vs. small guns or making the e-weapon skill grow steadily along with it or even have the New California Republic E-Weapons Association and they offer free safety & training leasons with e-weapons to give you a solid base to work from. Most any "gimped" skill could be overcome through gameplay discovery, use or whatnot is all I am saying... Like the blue,red green, memory chip for the BoS computer... perhaps some could teach better skills.

On character importation --
I don't want characters from Fallout 1 and 2 or tactics coming into Fallout 3. I doubt the story line would allow for it anyway. If FUTURE Fallouts beyond 3 allow for character importation I think THAT would be great, but if the stories are going follow the tend of focusing on different people in different siutations then of course no, I don't want an importation system because it would foul up the storyline.
If I recall correctly Quest for Glory compensated for the character importation. The skills were effectively reset to a hair above average, but retained equipment & base stats. For Fallout it could be similair, retaining perks and equipment and having stats somewhat reset back to "human levels."
Really this wish could only be answered if there was a Fallout 4 discussion forum so perhaps I'll just wait until then to bring it up.

On NPC Talking Heads -

I realize that Black Isle is being cautious of character animations, but I was meaning that when i was talking to a NPC travelling with me, they should have a face to look at. It would be nice touch if Vic, Ian, Cassidy, and the like all had faces like Marcus, etc.
You talk to them way more than Enclave soldiers, Aradesh or the Overseer....

Keep in mind Black Isle has also got to sell copies of this game to people who aren't fans posting on forums and if they don't update it to contend with it's rivals, the game will fail and I'm definitely not going to get to put my importation wish on the Fallout 4 suggestion board.


As for cutscenes and animations for endings in stuff. I think they should keep that less is more philosophy (although I wonder if that less was more back in 98 and after hearing about final fantasy 10's cutscene extravaganza should be cautioning instead of recommending more...) I don't think a cutscene at the end of main city quests would be all that cumbersome to deliver. Doesn't have to be a 5 minute wonder just a 30-35s of the Killian arresting Gismo, the Hubologist blasting of into space, or Frank Horrigan 's men killing the Vault 13 deathclaws, it could have been a sweet Aliens-esque cutscene of Horrigan flamethrowing the denmothers nest...
I strongly feel the epilogues should be animated cutscenes though, that's the way the bulk of good games go. I hate games you play forever and get a lame reward. Over half the joy of beating Warcraft 3 campaigns was the cutscenes, and I cheated with level skip to watch Frozen Thrones before going back and playing legit.

Solid cutscenes are a staple for games now and if Fallout 3 was a DVD-rom they'd probably have no probelms with sacrificing quality for space...



At any rate... hope my image as an idiot fanboy changes at somepoint...

 

[EraserMark]

Gee I'm really long winded....sorry guys...

 

[Ripper]

whoa my eyes hurt after reading all those.

 

[OnTheBounce]

9. In random encounters during travel, allow for a little pre battle setup if the Outdoorsman skill prompts for you to choose whether or not you will engage. At least a few formation options before you begin, especially if the combat is real time. (I guess this would only work if they kept the Indy Jones travel Map mode, which I hope they will)

This is a good idea. I've always found FO/FO2's system of random encounter setup to be rather lacking. You have no control over marching order, formation or any of that, although I wouldn't want the devs to go overboard w/this, lest FO3 turns into a better squad-based tactical game than FoT ever thought of being.

While then epilogues of the endings do tell you a lot about whether or not you completed a city's mainquest to the best or worst possibility. I think A lot of town sub quests are overlooked by a lot of players.

You don't like the idea of having to work for your gaming pleasure? Seriously, this sort of thing kills replayability of a game. I can't tell you how many times I've started a new game trying to make sure that I got a certain ending for a town, or tried to see if I could get a better ending that I'd gotten previously. The same goes for sub-quests in towns.

I think that the action-based experience can of course be abused like Homer Simpson with his dipping bird and the Y key. You could just as easily download a trainer if you want to cheat though. I think there are probably ways of overcoming such abuse though.

Dl'ing a "trainer" -- I place this term in quotes to denote that its use is suspicious, since I don't believe these things actually train people to do anything but cheat -- is cheating, while using a skill repetitively is merely exploitation of a perfectly legitimate action. I wouldn't really call it cheating, but it can easily ruin a game. The problem is that the devs will probably assume that everyone's doing it at least to a certain extent, and therefore the requisite skills needed for certain things will be much higher than a non-exploitative player might think.

There are probably some fixes to this, such as only allowing an action to earn experience once. Also, the character system could balance between skill points earned from actions and those earned from gaining levels.

However, the thing is that SPECIAL is a system designed for a role-playing game, and hence it allows you to simulate a character's development, even though you're not acting out the mundane drudgery of day-to-day existance. Let's say your character has Science tagged, but hasn't encountered any computers. Why have you been able to dump SPs into that skill? Because during your character's travels he's been working on programing thanks to his PipBoy, and he also tore it down and rebuilt it a couple of times and therefore got some experience w/Repair while he was at it.

Do you see where I'm going? Rather than simply saying, "I can't see why the game allows this," try to find reasons for what the game allows to be happening. It's the beauty of an abstracted system, really, since it allows for a wide range of actions w/o having to resort to spelling everything out for the player. It leaves players room to be themselves to a great extent, and not at the mercy of whatever explanations the devs could think of.

I do think skills at the start of the game should be reflective of the main characters past. I think the orginal VaultDweller was fine, but The Chosen one is quite advanced for living in a primitive culture.

I agree. This is one of the many, many reasons why the beginning of FO2 was inappropriate. Having the Vault Dweller found a settlement more akin to Shady Sands would have been much, much better. This would have overcome the awkward idea of a computer-literate tribal, while still not restricting the player from starting w/whatever skills tagged that he/she thought were appropriate to their character.

On character importation --
I don't want characters from Fallout 1 and 2 or tactics coming into Fallout 3. I doubt the story line would allow for it anyway. If FUTURE Fallouts beyond 3 allow for character importation I think THAT would be great, but if the stories are going follow the tend of focusing on different people in different siutations then of course no, I don't want an importation system because it would foul up the storyline.
If I recall correctly Quest for Glory compensated for the character importation. The skills were effectively reset to a hair above average, but retained equipment & base stats. For Fallout it could be similair, retaining perks and equipment and having stats somewhat reset back to "human levels."

Equipment would have to be left behind for balance purposes. The Turbo Plasma Rifle or its Gaussian equivalent wouldn't exactly be a good weapon for a player to start off with. That being said, since attributes/skills are being reset, there's practically no difference between what you're suggesting and simply starting a game, entering the same name, and selecting the same stats and skills. This, of course, is assuming that later games in the franchise -- assuming we even see FO3 and BIS survives long enough to set its eyes on continuing it -- are geographically and temporarily compatible w/your idea to begin with.

Solid cutscenes are a staple for games now and if Fallout 3 was a DVD-rom they'd probably have no probelms with sacrificing quality for space...

No, but they'd sacrifice me as a player since I only have a CD-ROM and a CD-RW.

At any rate... hope my image as an idiot fanboy changes at somepoint...

Hey, don't look at me. I didn't say that shit.

OTB