Honest Hearts and Tourism in the Fallout Universe

[Jogre]

So, I was replaying Honest Hearts recently, and it got me thinking.

It's well established that the Dead Horses are descended from tourists who got stranded after the Great War.

Firstly, I guess this means that the National Quarantine of 2053 talked about in Fallout Bible 0 is no longer part of canon lore (Or it could have been but later revoked, but tbh with the pre-war world being a semi-covert dictatorship I don't see why they wouldn't use that as a way to keep people under control)

Secondly, this raises the question of what tourism was like in Pre-War america in the Fallout Universe.

I mean, would there be much of a tourist industry when there are resource wars going on everywhere, and lots of countries are stuck in some kind of ongoing war?

Also what would it be like for someone from outside the US to visit in the context of the Fallout Universe?, With all the propaganda they had, and the rampant jingoism, the public executions, the actively shooting up crowds of people to test Power Armour, I don't exactly imagine it would be particularly high on most people's lists of where they wanted to visit, nor do I imagine tourists would be treated especially well there.

So, how do you think Tourism worked in the pre-war US?

 

[CerberusGate]

Also what would it be like for someone from outside the US to visit in the context of the Fallout Universe?

My guess on this part is that either outright bans for any country part of/close to known Communist nations while other countries got limited & heavily guided tours (ala North Korea) that shows off the good parts of America while hiding the less savory parts.

It's well established that the Dead Horses are descended from tourists who got stranded after the Great War.

Firstly, I guess this means that the National Quarantine of 2053 talked about in Fallout Bible 0 is no longer part of canon lore (Or it could have been but later revoked, but tbh with the pre-war world being a semi-covert dictatorship I don't see why they wouldn't use that as a way to keep people under control)

Perhaps some form of limited tourism was allowed or tourism only got revoked once the New Plague started and the riotings began (I don't recall much from the Fallout Bible at the moment so could anyone verify or correct me here please?)

 

[CT Phipps]

The collapse of the American economy, plague, and so on are all important things to remember about the Fallout universe but the simple fact was it can't have been a COMPLETE collapse of the economy because we still have Fallout 2 making it clear that major corporations, capitalist government officials, and so on were all still operating. The Enclave was large and in charge right up until the very end after all.

I also remind people North Korea has a thriving tourism industry--it's part of the propaganda.

 

[Risewild]

I think that as long as you were rich and had money, you could do pretty much anything in the pre-war America. Capitalism!

Mr House built a missile defense system over Las Vegas, it had to be military grade stuff since it managed to shoot most missiles and didn't shoot them all because he was a tiny bit off in his calculations and it happen a bit before he thought it would happen.
Sinclair built a super luxurious hotel/casino/show place with an entire self-sufficient villa that had super advanced technology that was just being developed by the Think Tank, for him, the love of his life, some artists and anyone rich enough to go live in there.
There was luxury cars being advertised on TV before the bombs fell.

I think rich people would travel anywhere in the USA, if they wanted to. Unless they were thought to be spies or something like that. The thing was bad for everyone that wasn't rich.

 

[CT Phipps]

I get the view the Pre-War world was very much about maintaining appearances right up until the end.

 

[Hassknecht]

I get the view the Pre-War world was very much about maintaining appearances right up until the end.

Weirdly enough, the german version of the game (mainly the intro of Fallout 1) made it feel so even more for me. I never really got the feel of the US being some sort of pseudo-fascist militaristic junta sort of deal because in the german intro the TV screen cuts to a "technical difficulties" screen right when the one soldier goes to shoot the prisoner. The viewer of course knows what happens, but it makes it feel more like the US is still pretending to be the "good guys" where shooting prisoners in the streets and laughing at them is not what you'd show on TV.

 

[Pwener]

Weirdly enough, the german version of the game (mainly the intro of Fallout 1) made it feel so even more for me. I never really got the feel of the US being some sort of pseudo-fascist militaristic junta sort of deal because in the german intro the TV screen cuts to a "technical difficulties" screen right when the one soldier goes to shoot the prisoner. The viewer of course knows what happens, but it makes it feel more like the US is still pretending to be the "good guys" where shooting prisoners in the streets and laughing at them is not what you'd show on TV.

Yeah but the German intro throws the whole "jaded society" thing out the window if the U.S. was taking steps in what their country was seeing on tv and listening on the radio. I mean, Pre-War civilization was driving around in cars that ran on mini nuclear reactors. Those things blow up if you shoot them a few times! What if you crash another vehicle? That's an explosion right there.

My point is that the entire world had become so jaded that stepford smiling was the norm to maintain your sanity. Oh, your neighbor was just abducted by government agents on the SUSPICION that they are communist spies? No biggie, just keep smiling for the camera.

Them there's the reason the bombs fell. Now I don't know how canon this is but sources indicate that it was the existence of FEV and the super soldier program being revealed to the public days before the bombs fell which served as the catalyst/excuse to bomb America which then forced the U.S. to bomb everywhere else.

That would make Richardson blaming the Chinese a true statement. Basically it was a no win situation. Up to The Great War the United States was about to take Beijing with their Powered Armor T-51 infantries. Literally hours away from that the bombs fell. The FEV going live was basically a "sobering up" for the world and certain elements took advantage of it to destroy their enemies which caused the war.

If the world had not been so emotionally/mentally messed up the FEV reveal would not have caused the war. Instead sanctions would have been put against the U.S. and an inquiry would have gone out to stop the program. But no, everyone was so messed up and drinking the kool-aid that dropping bombs was the only solution everyone saw. That and China was desperate and saw the scandal as the perfect excuse in front of the world. A world... that ceased to exist two hours later.

 

[CT Phipps]

Sanctions?

A large part of the collapse of the United States economy was due to the fact there was no longer a Europe to speak of (it had degenerated to barbarism) and much of the world was in complete chaos due to the exhaustion of resources. FEV is also something of the "straw that broke the camels" as the war was always going to go nuclear given neither side would accept losing and destruction as an alternative.

In short, the nuclear war really just finished what had already begun.

 

[Pwener]

Sanctions?

A large part of the collapse of the United States economy was due to the fact there was no longer a Europe to speak of (it had degenerated to barbarism) and much of the world was in complete chaos due to the exhaustion of resources.

Yes, sanctions. Currently the U.S. has many sanctions against Russia in their propaganda campaign against Putin and his administration but it's all for show since they have done nothing to stop Russia's economy or alliance with China.

Back to Fallout; I really don't believe it had gone to the point of "barbarism" as you say.

Exhaustion of resources like coal and oil which are the cornerstones of our modern lifestyles would not destroy a nation. There are alternative fuel sources that the Fallout world already had access to. Take for example Poseidon and their solar energy initiative.

We also know next to nothing about what went on in other countries prior to the bombs so it's all just speculation. All we know is that the EU dissolved and that's it.

FEV is also something of the "straw that broke the camels" as the war was always going to go nuclear given neither side would accept losing and destruction as an alternative.

In short, the nuclear war really just finished what had already begun.

Yes, that's exactly the point that I was making.

It was also not the war for resources which caused the war, it was the drive for supremacy. "War Never Changes" tells us this. Resources were always the means to an end and that end was world domination. Or at least dominion over which culture reigned. Communism vs Democracy is what the war was really about. If resources had been the problem then all nations would have come together in the United Nations to solve the issue and many solutions existed. But instead the UN was disbanded because everyone wished to be Top Dog.

Alternative Energy Solutions (In-Lore);

• Microfusion Cells
• Matter Replicators
• Solar Energy

Yet everyone opted to bomb the world. Nobody thought about "mutually assured destruction" and I don't think I've ever even seen or heard the words in any of the games. That should say something. Every major power expected to be the last man standing. The war for resources was simply the conflict that everyone centered on but in truth the two superpowers were clashing ideologically more so than for the spoils.

The perfect example to prove my point is that the alternative energy solutions I mentioned above were completaly disregarded or turned to weapons by Pre-War United States. Poseidon's solar initiative was turned into a superweapon to fight the war and micro fusions cells were never used for anything other than high-end batteries. Matter Replicators are the most damming. Literally the most powerful technology available to them and they didn't use them. Not even Dean knew what they were. He always thought they were simple vending machines. That tech would have saved the world from their resource crisis yet they chose to wage war for each other's resources.

Lile I've said, the nations weren't really trying to solve their respective resource problems. That was just the tag-line used in their propaganda commercials.

 

[Hassknecht]

Yeah but the German intro throws the whole "jaded society" thing out the window if the U.S. was taking steps in what their country was seeing on tv and listening on the radio. I mean, Pre-War civilization was driving around in cars that ran on mini nuclear reactors. Those things blow up if you shoot them a few times! What if you crash another vehicle? That's an explosion right there.

My point is that the entire world had become so jaded that stepford smiling was the norm to maintain your sanity. Oh, your neighbor was just abducted by government agents on the SUSPICION that they are communist spies? No biggie, just keep smiling for the camera.

To be fair, that's mostly Bethesda's interpretation that came from loving mushroom clouds way too much and thinking that Fallout takes place in the 50's with McCarthyism in full effect.

 

[Jogre]

To be fair, that's mostly Bethesda's interpretation that came from loving mushroom clouds way too much and thinking that Fallout takes place in the 50's with McCarthyism in full effect.

As much as I dislike the whole over-the-top 50s thing Bethesda tries to push, I have to admit that rampant mccarthyism does seem like something which really fits in to the Fallout universe. I know it's very much a Bethesda thing, but it absolutely feels like something that the pre-war Fallout government would support.

 

[Pwener]

To be fair, that's mostly Bethesda's interpretation that came from loving mushroom clouds way too much.

I assume this bit is referring to exploding vehicles. If so then you're incorrect.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Highwayman

From that page; "Towns in the post-apocalyptic world don't allow motor vehicles on their streets, citing something about aged fuel cells exploding. The Highwayman has to be parked on the outskirts of a town."

The citation for that just happens to be the official strategy guide for Fallout 2.

 

[Hassknecht]

I assume this bit is referring to exploding vehicles. If so then you're incorrect.

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Highwayman

From that page; "Towns in the post-apocalyptic world don't allow motor vehicles on their streets, citing something about aged fuel cells exploding. The Highwayman has to be parked on the outskirts of a town."

The citation for that just happens to be the official strategy guide for Fallout 2.

That's for aged fuel cells that are almost 200 years old. There's nothing about nuclear reactors in there that go boom in a localized nuclear holocaust.

 

[Atomkilla]

As much as I dislike the whole over-the-top 50s thing Bethesda tries to push, I have to admit that rampant mccarthyism does seem like something which really fits in to the Fallout universe. I know it's very much a Bethesda thing, but it absolutely feels like something that the pre-war Fallout government would support.

Agreed, but Bethesda failed at that because it made it all too forced. 200 years after the war and we still know about some government shenanigans which are, broadly speaking, very minor. A few nods here and there are fine, but Beth really pushed it.

 

[Risewild]

Yeah but the German intro throws the whole "jaded society" thing out the window if the U.S. was taking steps in what their country was seeing on tv and listening on the radio. I mean, Pre-War civilization was driving around in cars that ran on mini nuclear reactors. Those things blow up if you shoot them a few times! What if you crash another vehicle? That's an explosion right there.

That's for aged fuel cells that are almost 200 years old. There's nothing about nuclear reactors in there that go boom in a localized nuclear holocaust.

The way I see the Highwayman works with an electric engine. It can be charged with Small Energy Cells, so that is very different from having a mini nuclear reactor. You can also use Microfusion Cells, but again those wouldn't create a big explosion either.
Also I always thought that we use SEC and MFC to recharge the engine, not to "fuel it". Basically we transfer the energy from SEC and MFC's into the car batteries. It doesn't sound to me that the cars actually have nuclear reactors.

 

[Hassknecht]

The way I see the Highwayman works with an electric engine. It can be charged with Small Energy Cells, so that is very different from having a mini nuclear reactor. You can also use Microfusion Cells, but again those wouldn't create a big explosion either.
Also I always thought that we use SEC and MFC to recharge the engine, not to "fuel it". Basically we transfer the energy from SEC and MFC's into the car batteries. It doesn't sound to me that the cars actually have nuclear reactors.

Indeed. "Fuel cell" I think just means "battery" in this case.

 

[peadar87]

Indeed. Sure the explosions when a Highwayman blows up even in FO3 are only equivalent to a tank of normal petrol.

 

[lolpop109]

So, I was replaying Honest Hearts recently, and it got me thinking.

It's well established that the Dead Horses are descended from tourists who got stranded after the Great War.

Firstly, I guess this means that the National Quarantine of 2053 talked about in Fallout Bible 0 is no longer part of canon lore (Or it could have been but later revoked, but tbh with the pre-war world being a semi-covert dictatorship I don't see why they wouldn't use that as a way to keep people under control)

Secondly, this raises the question of what tourism was like in Pre-War america in the Fallout Universe.

I mean, would there be much of a tourist industry when there are resource wars going on everywhere, and lots of countries are stuck in some kind of ongoing war?

Also what would it be like for someone from outside the US to visit in the context of the Fallout Universe?, With all the propaganda they had, and the rampant jingoism, the public executions, the actively shooting up crowds of people to test Power Armour, I don't exactly imagine it would be particularly high on most people's lists of where they wanted to visit, nor do I imagine tourists would be treated especially well there.

So, how do you think Tourism worked in the pre-war US?

Another question I would like to pose to this thread is what would after war tourism be ? I mean in FNV we see solders visiting the strip on leave and other people coming across the NCR to vist the area. Would there be any other tourist destinations ? I take it that would't be much but surely people would get fed up of staying one one area maybe they want to go vist family or something like that I dunno. I would imagine in more richer area's there much be demand for tourism or being staying in area's if so just for looking for work or family. Some area's we have seen so far in the fallout universe sort of suggest this. It would be kind of interesting to think what tourism would consists of as just simply going camping would be quite dangerous however there could be a demand for the richer folks I guess. Would they risk travling ? I guess as society developes and econ developes so what tourism.

I kinda would like to exlpore this in Atlanta but I don't know how believe it is. But i guess because of all the trade it can make certain people quite wealthly.

But would people really risk there 'safety' to go and explore more of the post apocalyptic world ?

 

[Hassknecht]

Indeed. Sure the explosions when a Highwayman blows up even in FO3 are only equivalent to a tank of normal petrol.

The Fatman was also only a little bit bigger than a hand grenade. That's why they had to have it a mushroom cloud and radioactivity to really nail the point that it's NUKULAR.

 

[CT Phipps]

Mind you, personal nuclear weapons WERE designed in real life.