How many seconds is one combat turn in Fallout supposed to b

[Wounded Ronin]

Can anyone tell me how many seconds one combat turn in Fallout is supposed to last?

The reason I'm asking is because I'm working on a mod which has vintage historical weapons in it. I'd like to see if I can't make the guns have something approaching a historically correct rate of fire without totally unbalancing things.

If I knew how long a Fallout combat turn is supposed to be I could start figuring out how many rounds the various weapons should spit out per burst fire action.

Thanks a lot for your help and consideration.

 

[Sander]

....
Eh....no one really knows, especially since the amount of actions you can take in a turn depends on your action points.

Also, I don't really think you need to look at Fallout for historically correct rates of fire. I'd just look up the rate fire on sites that actually deal with that.

 

[SuAside]

I'd just look up the rate fire on sites that actually deal with that.

but whatever you do, don't go to CoC sites for that.

 

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well, I read from somewhere that the turn was supposed to last about five or six seconds, but as one might guess, a soldier rarely needs(uses) more than 5 round burst fires, cause the accuracy of the fire becomes really bad, really fast.

 

[Sander]

Well, I read from somewhere that the turn was supposed to last about five or six seconds, but as one might guess, a soldier rarely needs(uses) more than 5 round burst fires, cause the accuracy of the fire becomes really bad, really fast.

And where did you get this from?
Are you sure you aren't confusing this with DnD, where a single round lasts 6 seconds?

 

[SuAside]

euhm, considering an average person (hence dex 5, str 5) would be able to dumpfire a heavy calibre pistol (let's say a Colt Delta Elite 10mm for reference with the FO 10mm) with an 8 round mag in about 3 seconds with semi-reasonable accuracy, i'd say FO 'turns' sure as fucking hell aint 6 seconds.

 

[Wounded Ronin]

euhm, considering an average person (hence dex 5, str 5) would be able to dumpfire a heavy calibre pistol (let's say a Colt Delta Elite 10mm for reference with the FO 10mm) with an 8 round mag in about 3 seconds with semi-reasonable accuracy, i'd say FO 'turns' sure as fucking hell aint 6 seconds.

Hmm, but if we decide that a Fallout turn is only 1 second then things would get weird. For example, it would now be possible to search a body in less than 1 second.

Actually, I've noticed how in both Fallout and Jagged Alliance 2 probably shooting your weapon should take less APs than running an enormous distance or reloading (how is it that squeezing a trigger takes 5 points but removing a magazine, putting a new one in, and throwing the rack takes only 2 points?) but my guess is that the game designers in both games wanted to emphasize tactics through manuvering and decided to make shooting slow.

In order to be able to provide a more rational overall explanation for the combat turn maybe the 5 action points for semiautomatic fire includes more than just squeezing the trigger. What about the time that it takes the person to react to the threat, point his weapon in the right direction, and then open fire? What about the recovery time and target re-acquisition after the first shot?

Just some thoughts and brainstorming. I'd love to hear your further opinions.

 

[Sander]

Hmm, but if we decide that a Fallout turn is only 1 second then things would get weird. For example, it would now be possible to search a body in less than 1 second.

Actually, I've noticed how in both Fallout and Jagged Alliance 2 probably shooting your weapon should take less APs than running an enormous distance or reloading (how is it that squeezing a trigger takes 5 points but removing a magazine, putting a new one in, and throwing the rack takes only 2 points?) but my guess is that the game designers in both games wanted to emphasize tactics through manuvering and decided to make shooting slow.

No, abstraction. Shooting, after all, includes aiming.

In order to be able to provide a more rational overall explanation for the combat turn maybe the 5 action points for semiautomatic fire includes more than just squeezing the trigger. What about the time that it takes the person to react to the threat, point his weapon in the right direction, and then open fire? What about the recovery time and target re-acquisition after the first shot?

Just some thoughts and brainstorming. I'd love to hear your further opinions.

Actually, you just need to look at how all PnP games do it: abstraction. Many things are left unmentioned, but make a lot of sense when properly examined. Because then things like taking aim, the duratoin of a burst etc. come into play.

 

[Sorrow]

The problem is, that in Fallout, the shooter returns to a "neutral" position after firing a single shot or a burst, so every time he/she shoots at target he/she has to get into /aim etc.

 

[Wounded Ronin]

Hmm. After thinking about it for a while, I think I'll start out assuming that 1 combat turn is 3 seconds for the purpose of determining rates of automatic fire in the mod I am working on. I figure than an average person would be able to point his weapon, align the sights, and fire in 3 seconds and someone with heroic agility could maybe do that twice in 3 seconds.

If 3 seconds ends up making burst fire too powerful (or too weak with not enough rounds coming out) I'll try 2 seconds or 4 seconds and keep adjusting from there.

 

[SuAside]

I figure than an average person would be able to point his weapon, align the sights, and fire in 3 seconds and someone with heroic agility could maybe do that twice in 3 seconds.

3 seconds is enough for an average person to do 2 "double taps" (shooting 2 rounds per target) at 2 different targets.

anyhow, FO turns aren't really about time as stated above, they are about strategy.

 

[McArrowni]

I may be wrong here, but if I recall correctly, when you set the auto-destruct on one of the BBEG's bases (don't remember if it was Mariposa military base, the Cathedral, or the Enclave), there's a countdown that begins. Outside of combat it's pretty much RT, but during combat I'm pretty sure each rounds takes the same number of seconds off the counter.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, this could be a way to know how long seconds last in theory according to the developers.

 

[Morbus]

I may be wrong here, but if I recall correctly, when you set the auto-destruct on one of the BBEG's bases (don't remember if it was Mariposa military base, the Cathedral, or the Enclave), there's a countdown that begins. Outside of combat it's pretty much RT, but during combat I'm pretty sure each rounds takes the same number of seconds off the counter.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, this could be a way to know how long seconds last in theory according to the developers.

So that probably means that each Action Point means different secons according to player's agility...

 

[globbi]

I checked it on setting explosives. A whole round takes time, not a turn of a single character, however it does matter when in the turn do you set timer. A whole round is about 5 secounds. The time moves forward only when a round ends if you don't leave the combat mode. If set timer using your last actions no ime passes for it (the clock starts just as you leave the combat mode and detonation during combat is one turn later)

 

[memetics]

I checked it on setting explosives. A whole round takes time, not a turn of a single character, however it does matter when in the turn do you set timer. A whole round is about 5 secounds. The time moves forward only when a round ends if you don't leave the combat mode. If set timer using your last actions no ime passes for it (the clock starts just as you leave the combat mode and detonation during combat is one turn later)

I can mostly confirm this, at least as it involves explosives timers. In the Keeng Ra'at cave, I set the timer on dynamite for 20 seconds and then dropped it by one of the weak supports to bury Keeng Ra'at, and had five AP left that round to run. Call that round 1. After my action in round 4, the rats went, and then Sulik; as Sulik was running toward me, the dynamite went off (presumably at the end of the round). Further tests showed that with inept explosives handling, the time is cut in half: the dynamite blows at the end of round 2 (the first round after I drop the dynamite and run) instead of round 4.

So, based on explosives, combat rounds appear to be 5 seconds long... but do other measures agree with this, or disagree? With firearms rates of fire, for instance, I tend to think that we're not talking about maximum fire rate capability but rather a slower rate of fire based on inexperience, aiming, etc.... that, or just a game mechanic decision to allow characters who don't use firearms to have a fighting chance.

-m

(p.s. Sorry for the gravedigging; it was the only thread I could find that addressed the topic of combat turn lengths, and I thought I could add some useful info here rather than starting a new thread. -m)

 

[Brother None]

Hell of a grave dig, but you were right to do so.

I guess your estimate would be about right, but like Sander said, it's pretty clear turns weren't made with a number of seconds in mind. Maybe if it had used GURPS this would have been different.