Human Rights- Individual or Collective?

This just in: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4700414.stm

Sweden shuts website over cartoon
Anti-Danish protest in Jakarta
Sweden has largely avoided the anger Denmark has suffered
The Swedish government has moved to shut down the website of a far-right political party's newspaper over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

The site's host, Levonline, pulled the plug on the website of the Swedish Democrats' SD-Kuriren newspaper after consulting with the government.

It is believed to be the first time a Western government has intervened to block a publication in the growing row.

Kuriren editor Richard Jomshof said the government was breaking the law.

"We have to do something about it. This is illegal. They can't do this just because we are a small magazine," he told the BBC News website.

The Swedish Democrats are a small anti-immigrant party with no representatives in parliament, but a few local elected officials.

Jomshof said the newspaper had a print run of about 30,000.

Call for cartoons

He had asked readers to send in their own Muhammad cartoons, but he denies intending to offend Muslims.

His website briefly posted a picture showing Muhammad from the rear, looking into a mirror, with his eyes blacked out - an image he said was about self-censorship.


It seemed like it could be a bad for us and for others to have the site up
Levonline CEO Turkel Nyberg

"It was directed at the Swedish government and Swedish magazines," Jomshof said.

"They are cowards for not standing by the Danish people and Jyllands-Posten [Danish newspaper which first published controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad last year]."

Muslims around the world have demonstrated against the cartoons since they were republished in a number of European newspapers at the end of January.

Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds described Kuriren's move as "a provocation" by "a small group of extremists".

"I will defend freedom of the press no matter what the circumstances, but I strongly condemn the provocation by SD-Kuriren. It displays a complete lack of respect," she said in a statement.

Site back up

Levonline CEO Turkel Nyberg told the BBC News website his company had pulled the plug on the site after discussions with the foreign ministry and the security police.

"It seemed like it could be a bad for us and for others to have the site up. The problem was the content, which was these Muhammad pictures," he said.

He said he had been told by the government that Arab media were carrying reports about SD-Kuriren's call for cartoons about Muhammad.

Sweden - which opposed the war in Iraq and is a leading donor to the Middle East - has largely avoided becoming the target of Muslim anger over the cartoons.

The SD-Kuriren website is currently back online via a back-up server.

"All they did was close down some links to the server. We have other links that are still working," Jomshof said.

It's a bit more complicated than this article describes, however. Apparently, SÄPO (teh secrete "safety police") contacted the host of the website and 'informed' them about the situation, and potential consequences - but they didn't order the host in any way to shut down the website. Had they done so, it would indeed be breaking the law from their side. The risen question is to what extent the government should be allowed to "inform about consequences" in this manner. It was the host that took the decision to shut the site down, but it was obviously influenced by the police.

Personally, I think that shutting the website down was stupid, and it should easily be tried in a court of law. It seems to me however that the host should be held responsible, not SÄPO.
 
More comments on this, from the economist(of course)

The limits to free speech
Cartoon wars

Feb 9th 2006
From The Economist print edition

Free speech should override religious sensitivities. And it is not just the property of the West

AFP

“I DISAGREE with what you say and even if you are threatened with death I will not defend very strongly your right to say it.” That, with apologies to Voltaire, seems to have been the initial pathetic response of some western governments to the republication by many European newspapers of several cartoons of Muhammad first published in a Danish newspaper in September. When the republished cartoons stirred Muslim violence across the world, Britain and America took fright. It was “unacceptable” to incite religious hatred by publishing such pictures, said America's State Department. Jack Straw, Britain's foreign secretary, called their publication unnecessary, insensitive, disrespectful and wrong.

Really? There is no question that these cartoons are offensive to many Muslims (see article). They offend against a convention in Islam that the Prophet should not be depicted. And they offend because they can be read as equating Islam with terrorism: one cartoon has Muhammad with a bomb for his headgear. It is not a good idea for newspapers to insult people's religious or any other beliefs just for the sake of it. But that is and should be their own decision, not a decision for governments, clerics or other self-appointed arbiters of taste and responsibility. In a free country people should be free to publish whatever they want within the limits set by law.

No country permits completely free speech. Typically, it is limited by prohibitions against libel, defamation, obscenity, judicial or parliamentary privilege and what have you. In seven European countries it is illegal to say that Hitler did not murder millions of Jews. Britain still has a pretty dormant blasphemy law (the Christian God only) on its statute books. Drawing the line requires fine judgements by both lawmakers and juries. Britain, for example, has just jailed a notorious imam, Abu Hamza of London's Finsbury Park mosque, for using language a jury construed as solicitation to murder (see article). Last week, however, another British jury acquitted Nick Griffin, a notorious bigot who calls Islam “vicious and wicked”, on charges of stirring racial hatred.

Drawing the line
In this newspaper's view, the fewer constraints that are placed on free speech the better. Limits designed to protect people (from libel and murder, for example) are easier to justify than those that aim in some way to control thinking (such as laws on blasphemy, obscenity and Holocaust-denial). Denying the Holocaust should certainly not be outlawed: far better to let those who deny well-documented facts expose themselves to ridicule than pose as martyrs. But the Muhammad cartoons were lawful in all the European countries where they were published. And when western newspapers lawfully publish words or pictures that cause offence—be they ever so unnecessary, insensitive or disrespectful—western governments should think very carefully before denouncing them.

Freedom of expression, including the freedom to poke fun at religion, is not just a hard-won human right but the defining freedom of liberal societies. When such a freedom comes under threat of violence, the job of governments should be to defend it without reservation. To their credit, many politicians in continental Europe have done just that. France's interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, said rather magnificently that he preferred “an excess of caricature to an excess of censorship”—though President Jacques Chirac later spoiled the effect by condemning the cartoons as a “manifest provocation”.

Shouldn't the right to free speech be tempered by a sense of responsibility? Of course. Most people do not go about insulting their fellows just because they have a right to. The media ought to show special sensitivity when the things they say might stir up hatred or hurt the feelings of vulnerable minorities. But sensitivity cannot always ordain silence. Protecting free expression will often require hurting the feelings of individuals or groups, even if this damages social harmony. The Muhammad cartoons may be such a case.

In Britain and America, few newspapers feel that their freedoms are at risk. But on the European mainland, some of the papers that published the cartoons say they did so precisely because their right to publish was being called into question. In the Netherlands two years ago a film maker was murdered for daring to criticise Islam. Danish journalists have received death threats. In a climate in which political correctness has morphed into fear of physical attack, showing solidarity may well be the responsible thing for a free press to do. And the decision, of course, must lie with the press, not governments.

It's good to talk
It is no coincidence that the feeblest response to the outpouring of Muslim rage has come from Britain and America. Having sent their armies rampaging into the Muslim heartland, planting their flags in Afghanistan and Iraq and putting Saddam Hussein on trial, George Bush and Tony Blair have some making up to do with Muslims. Long before making a drama out of the Danish cartoons, a great many Muslims had come to equate the war on terrorism with a war against Islam. This is an equation Osama bin Laden and other enemies of the West would like very much to encourage and exploit. In circumstances in which embassies are being torched, isn't denouncing the cartoons the least the West can do to show its respect for Islam, and to stave off a much-feared clash of civilisations?

No. There are many things western countries could usefully say and do to ease relations with Islam, but shutting up their own newspapers is not one of them. People who feel that they are not free to give voice to their worries about terrorism, globalisation or the encroachment of new cultures or religions will not love their neighbours any better. If anything, the opposite is the case: people need to let off steam. And freedom of expression, remember, is not just a pillar of western democracy, as sacred in its own way as Muhammad is to pious Muslims. It is also a freedom that millions of Muslims have come to enjoy or to aspire to themselves. Ultimately, spreading and strengthening it may be one of the best hopes for avoiding the incomprehension that can lead civilisations into conflict
 
RadRaptor said:
Now you are comparing cartoonists to World War II soldiers? The disrespect, if I have ever seen any...!


No, but your "logic" would insist that you would censor that soldier as well, for bullshit reasons in light of a regime that looks to kill on any excuse. Damn, you're stupid.

So, according to your "logic" (You people like to dish out this world often, it seems) we're at war with all of the Muslim people and therefore we should be allowed to ridicule them and stick with "our boys" (the cartoonists and the presses)?

Hyperbole, five yard penalty. Also, Islamist != Muslim, fuckwit.

Even during war, rules apply. Ever heard of the Geneva convention?

Duh, shithead, I've had to swear to uphold them multiple times. Which you might have known if you bothered to lurk.

Cartoons are SUCH a war crime. No, they are not, moron. There's nothing in the Geneva Conventions about them, otherwise the US would be in trouble for the propoganda constantly around the war. Hell, if I wanted to draw the Prophet firing a SCUD missile from his ass and call it an Islamist bottle rocket, that is hardly a war crime. Tastelss, maybe; apropos, certainly. Talented? Well, no, I didn't think much behind it, but the metaphor works.

A lot of parts in our culture are offensive, but that doesn't mean they (The Muslims) have got a right to go around killing innocent people.

And we poke fun at each other, which they seem to not have a problem with. Yet once any Islamist can find any excuse, they use it. Do I need to repeat it again for your benefit, or are you under some delusion that Islam is truly the religion of peace? If so, you ARE a moron.

Remember, I'm neither defending the Islam nor defending the offending karikatures I'm simply telling that people involved are going to have be made an example of that such disrespect for both human life and religion can not be tolerated in a society that prefers its free speech free, not painted in the blood of the innocent because some people can't put a lid on their free thinking or fail to comprehend the effects of their actions.

Your disrespect for this forum has shown that yes, your argument does have a point. You are simply too stupid to be allowed to continue to post, simply because you can't understand that Islamists use ANY EXCUSE to kill people.

Everyone knows that the Muslims are a flammable type and that they are a danger to the Western world. like you don't play around with matches near flammable liquids, you shouldn't be provoking the Muslims if you value peace.

The same could have been said about the Nazis, and look at what happened in the past. If you allow your enemy to censor you by terrorism and fear, then they have already won, you spineless shit. Religious dogma apparently holds more hold over your own balls than you do.

Like it or not; the Western world is going to have to find some type of compromise between free speech and cultures that might be more restricting. And vice versa. And if someone oversteps that boundary, he or she is going to have to be punished. Without punishment, there is no discipline. Without discipline, people start to go wack.

Political Correctness doesn't work, as it led to most of the problems around Islam being ACCEPTED under the guise of "everyone is equal and cannot be discriminated against, and to say ill of them would be like, totally wrong, dude". Fuck that, I'll call a barbarian exactly what they are. If they don't like it, they can discover culture or be killed like previous barbarians who had a problem with civilization in the past. Simple as that.

Sorrow said:
I prefer to live in a society with a free speech that requires people to grow up and accept that they may be offended by someone else's perception of reality than in absolutely politically correct society that is on verge of religion war.

Amusingly enough, I believe we just had a topic involving just that, with how political correctness helped expand the mess around Islam, though I can't find it at the moment.
 
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