Hundreds of American Citizens Died in Gulags

[John Uskglass]

Official says hundreds of U.S. citizens likely died in gulags

Friday, February 11, 2005 Posted: 9:36 AM EST (1436 GMT)

A document from Russian archives lists American servicemen in Soviet custody in May 1945.

user posted image

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. military service members may have been imprisoned and died in Soviet forced-labor camps during the 20th century, according to a Pentagon report to be released Friday.

Researchers for the U.S.-Russia Joint Commission on POW/MIAs have been investigating unconfirmed reports of Americans who were held prisoner in the so-called gulags.

"I personally would be comfortable saying that the number [of Americans held in the gulags during the Cold War and Korean War] is in the hundreds," said Norman Kass, executive secretary of the commission's U.S. section.

The Soviet gulag system remained strong until the death of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin in 1953. But some camps remained in existence for years afterward.

Soviet authorities imprisoned millions who were considered "enemies of the state" and forced them to perform hard labor in the network of camps in remote areas of the country.

The publication of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "The Gulag Archipelago" in the early '70s focused the West's attention on the camps.

For more than a decade, Kass and his team have investigated dozens of reports about Americans spotted in the gulags.

"We have multiple lists of American servicemen missing and, of course, they are arranged by conflict," he said. "We have lists from World War II, from the Korean War, the Vietnam War and the various casualties during the Cold War."

Friday's 90-page Pentagon report is the fifth in a series of updates about the missing troops.

A separate internal Pentagon document has concluded "there is a high probability" that American citizens and U.S. and British prisoners of war died in the camps.

"We recognize that we may not be able to close a single page on the hundreds -- if I'm correct -- of people unaccounted for, but the importance of this program is the fact that we allow the process to go forward, and we draw attention to the importance of it, both for the nation and those in uniform who serve the nation," Kass said.

In one case, the daughter of a man imprisoned in a Siberian gulag told investigators in 2002 that her father had met an American named Stanley Warner. In 1957, another former prisoner reported having seen three U.S. soldiers there -- one of whom called himself Stanley Warner.

One roadblock to the U.S. efforts has been the Russian government's refusal to open its intelligence and security archives, Kass said in the report.

"To date, the results of these efforts have been less than encouraging," he said.

U.S. Defense Department officials are pressing the Russians open up these archives, hoping that documents could provide more information.

 

[The Commissar]

Is this News in America? Its not news to me. There are very few countries that I can think of that did not have at least dozen people die in a Soviet GULAG somewhere. Spain, UK, Japan, China, France... Even places further south like Turkmenistan, Iran and Afghanistan lost people. Proving once and for all the fate of many individuals will probably be impossible. However those American dead are not alone, and are in good company.

 

[Member of Khans]

It is sad enough that Gulags existed and people died in them.
How many of them were americans doesn't matter in my eyes... but, whatever...

 

[welsh]

This goes back to the rumors about the US MIA being turned over to the Soviets for interrogation. Don't know what became of that.

Was a novel written about this though- Charm School by Demille, involving US POWs in a Russian camp. Rather enjoyable book.

 

[Brother None]

Geee, huh, millions of Russians, a few hundred Americans. I somehow find myself incapable of caring for the Americans.

That's like those annoying reports of "it now turned out not 11, but TWELVE Dutch people died in the tsunami". WHO CARES?!*

* in a relative sense, obviously. A Dutch life is not worth a cent more than any other life in my book, so stuff it, Mr NewsManPerson.

 

[Ashmo]

Do you know how many people died in the Allied air raids on civilian areas in Germany during WW2?

Any idea how many civilians got blown to pieces, raped, mutilated, tortured, shot or decapitated in wars and armed conflicts in the past century? How many of them were victims of Americans?
No? Didn't think so.

Nationality doesn't matter. Cruelties don't become less or more severe when they are performed by or upon a particular group of people.

But I think we had this discussion before.

 

[John Uskglass]

Do you know how many people died in the Allied air raids on civilian areas in Germany during WW2?

.

Lemme think: not nearly as many killed by German bombings, genocides and general shitdicked rapings and shit?

Geee, huh, millions of Russians, a few hundred Americans.

There's a diffirence between recognizing this is a tiny minority and not caring particularly if a few hundred of your own country men are killed. You know that; are you more likely to care about the death of a hundred Dutchistanis in your home town, or a thousand Sudanese in Darfur every day?

 

[Bradylama]

Unfortunately, You Suck, this is a predominantly European community.

They're bound not to care.

I find it a bit shocking, but whatever. They're all dead anyways. This only serves interest as MIA closure, which to me, isn't that interesting.

Do you know how many people died in the Allied air raids on civilian areas in Germany during WW2?

Tons and bunches. Yum yum barbecue.

Of course, you'd mention the civilians killed in German air raids, and not those killed in the firebomings of Japan.

@ local interest.

 

[Brother None]

There's a diffirence between recognizing this is a tiny minority and not caring particularly if a few hundred of your own country men are killed. You know that; are you more likely to care about the death of a hundred Dutchistanis in your home town, or a thousand Sudanese in Darfur every day?

That's another kind of insensitivity. I don't care actively about the Sudanese in Darfur because it happens every damn day and I don't have the emotional energy for that. Objectively I care more about those Sudanese, though, practically I would pay more attention to the Dutch dying because it doesn't happen every day and maybe because if it happened I would be thrown to death with it on the news and radio.

In reality, however, I truely don't care about people being my country men or not. I know you can't concieve of this, but it's true

 

[Ashmo]

Do you know how many people died in the Allied air raids on civilian areas in Germany during WW2?

.

Lemme think: not nearly as many killed by German bombings, genocides and general shitdicked rapings and shit?

Your point being?

Geee, huh, millions of Russians, a few hundred Americans.

There's a diffirence between recognizing this is a tiny minority and not caring particularly if a few hundred of your own country men are killed. You know that; are you more likely to care about the death of a hundred Dutchistanis in your home town, or a thousand Sudanese in Darfur every day?

As a matter of fact "a thousand Sudanese [dying] in Darfur every day" would worry me a lot. Every single one of them bothers me as much as any random inhabitant of my hometown would.

Of course the death of someone I know would bother me more, but I still don't feel different about "Sudanese" I don't know and other people I don't know.
I'm not so ignorant that I need to hear about a person in my hometown dying in order to recognize that certain things are going very wrong and that war sucks and murder is unjustifiable no matter who dies or why they die or who kills them.

Every human is equal, if someone seems more equal to you, it's just because you know them or have personal feelings for them.

 

[Bradylama]

I think he takes more issue, Kharn, with you going out of your way to say that you don't care.

"Why'd you put this on my internet? Like I care, am I right? Gulags? More like Jewlags."

 

[welsh]

As much as one might feel sad because of the death of a neighbor or the death of a thousand Sudanese, what I think is also tragic is that we get bombarded with death everyday, so much so that it deadens our sense to it.

How many times do you hear the news and you hear about a bombing or a murder or an act of genocide, and the news passes you like nothing.

Seriously, when I was working as an attorney in NY, I remember walking past the homeless people and feeling compelled to give them money. Most folks just walked on by. Three months later I could walk by them as if they weren't there, and I realized I was becoming like everyone else.

Or maybe I've been listening to the news to long and my skin has gotten thicker because of it. And it's that thickness that bothers me.

 

[Dapper Dan Man]

As much as one might feel sad because of the death of a neighbor or the death of a thousand Sudanese, what I think is also tragic is that we get bombarded with death everyday, so much so that it deadens our sense to it.

How many times do you hear the news and you hear about a bombing or a murder or an act of genocide, and the news passes you like nothing.

Seriously, when I was working as an attorney in NY, I remember walking past the homeless people and feeling compelled to give them money. Most folks just walked on by. Three months later I could walk by them as if they weren't there, and I realized I was becoming like everyone else.

Or maybe I've been listening to the news to long and my skin has gotten thicker because of it. And it's that thickness that bothers me.

It means you are a good guy, welsh. I feel bad walking past people on the streets as well. I usually try to give money, and having to try to pretend someone isn't there pisses me off.

Yes, deadened sensitivity is disconcerting however, how many people die every day? Car accidents, murder, natural disaster and the like. I say it is all right not to weep at every piece of bad news aired; tears and 'caring' doesn't lessen the pain for others. Giving charity, helping people you actually CAN help, generally not acting like an asshole.

That is all that is really required. Anything else could rapidly leave one an emotional husk used and abused by every gleeful reporter in the world.