Fallout 2 mod Hunting mod idea. Is it possible to create? How to start?

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Wasteland_of_Sand, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. Wasteland_of_Sand

    Wasteland_of_Sand First time out of the vault

    3
    Jun 8, 2017
    I have an idea for a mod. It is described in the image or here: http://imgur.com/a/Bh9xg
    Is it possible to create it?
    How to get started with this mod?
    What resources should I read to get started with creating it?
    Maybe it is better for some experienced modder to create it if he likes the idea?

    What do you think about this idea?
     
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  2. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    What is "shelter"?

    Why does the outdoorsman skill INCREASE the chance of losing health?

    Why would I press the Hunt button when I can just move around normally on the worldmap and get random encounters that way?

    What are you smoking?
     
  3. Sagez

    Sagez It Wandered In From the Wastes

    111
    Oct 29, 2013
    No need to be harsh, Magnus. He came up with something, an idea, it just needs polishing.

    High outdoorsman skill increasing chances of losing health is probably just a typo. I can guess that you would press the Hunt button if you WANT to get random encounters, normally outdoorsman is used when you want to avoid them. And ,,hunting'' random encounters could mean animal-only encounters, not raiders - maybe.

    Maybe by a shelter he meant a player base like in Fallout online?

    I find this idea rather cool because the fact that so many skills in F1/F2 are so underpowered/undeveloped makes me sad all the time. Outdoorsman could be a way better skill, for example allowing the players to gather more body parts from monsters and could modify the prices of certain items.

    I personally think that raising the outdoorsman skill over 100% should increase the speed of player movement on the world map, like 110% would increase the speed by 10%, 120 by 20%, 130% makes you travel 30% faster etc.

    Make all skills great... for the first time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
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  4. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    Okay then, listen up: This is a bad idea because it doesn't do anything that's not already in the game.

    Want to hunt? Want to ignore the fact that your village is dying and spend months traipsing the wilderness looking for nearly worthless gecko hides?

    You can do that already. Just move around the worldmap. If you choose the right spot, there's a good chance of finding a pack of golden geckos. Or you might find some scary bandits with lots of guns.

    You know what lets you ambush the geckos and sneak away from the bandits? Your Outdoorsman skill. It's there already. It doesn't need a dedicated button.

    The movement speed? Your car does that already. By the time you've pumped up your Outdoorsman to those levels, you have the car.

    The shelter? Cool idea, but it's been done before by other mods.

    I'm all for making useless skills more useful, but it should be done using mechanics that are there already. Easy work, same results - the skill feels more rewarding.

    Add mole rat skins!

    Make the player take some radiation or health damage upon entering a town if they've been travelling without the car or with low Outdoorsman skill.

    Let the Outdoorsman skill give you an option to evade those "super mutants with plasma rifles" encounters until you're strong enough to fight them. Oh wait, nevermind.
     
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  5. Wasteland_of_Sand

    Wasteland_of_Sand First time out of the vault

    3
    Jun 8, 2017
    @Sagez
    Thank you for positive feedback.
    I would be cool to brainstorm this idea and you have written pretty cool mechanics.

    @Magnus
    What is "shelter"?
    For now, I think it is just the area that you can rest on.

    Why does the outdoorsman skill INCREASE the chance of losing health?
    Now all calculations are just an idea but here you are right. It should decrease.

    Why would I press the Hunt button when I can just move around normally on the worldmap and get random encounters that way?
    It is more time efficient:
    - if you wander around, you don't really know when you get an encounter but if you hunt you'll get it after every click if outdoorsman is high enough and time will pass in the background
    so it would be possible do do some hunting at the beginning of the game or in late game to get some xp or some gear or any other purpose the player would have in mind

    - in my opinion it is other half of the spirit of outdoorsman skill. You use it to hunt, in addition to avoid beeing hunted down.

    - and after all, the character is an tribesman, so the hunting is probably one of the things he did to gather the food for the village or himself before he ventured on his quest
     
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  6. Lexx

    Lexx Background Radiant
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Thing is, what exactly is "rest"? If you mean the PipBoy resting function... well, that already happens when walking on the actual worldmap (time advances).

    If you really want to have such a hunt-button, I'd suggest pressing it opens another interface where you can chose what animal to track (Brahmin, Rat, ...). This gives you real control, but even here-- it's a complicated mechanic for little gain.

    What I propose:
    - Press hunt-button.
    - Chose critter to track in new interface.
    - Special encounter map is forced.
    - Once player is in the new map, time will advance x amount.
    - Either the chosen critter will spawn or not (can track current position on worldmap and decide the rarety of the chosen critter)
    - If it spawns, player can kill it.
    - Leave encounter map to get back on worldmap.

    Other:
    - Scrap this "shelter" because it doesn't work unless you revamp the whole game.
    - Add a shitton of new animal related items (hides, teeth, claws,..)
    - Add trainers that teach players to take the new animal related items (learn how to declaw, how to take hides, etc)

    Once this is done, the player can now make additional money from hunting. If it's a good mechanic and worth the work... no idea.
     
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  7. Wasteland_of_Sand

    Wasteland_of_Sand First time out of the vault

    3
    Jun 8, 2017
    @Lexx
    In the simplest form it would just force one of the random encounters for the square you are on.

    With the shelter you are right. It would be just like walking into the square.

    The things with animal hides, or other mechanics maybe someday but it would require the work of its own to plan how to do it right.
    Pretty cool ideas with those animal realted items but as for now, it is outside of the scope of the mod, because first I have to learn how to make it in its most basic form.

    The thing is. I don't know where and how to start to implement this mod. How to add button, how to make it roll for a encounter etc.
     
  8. Lexx

    Lexx Background Radiant
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    As far as I'm aware, we can't track the player position and chose the corresponding encounter map. You'll have to setup your own system via script, which can be as complicated as you chose to make it.

    If you don't add more meat to it (new items, etc), this whole mechanic simply isn't worth it, just like Magnus already mentioned.
     
  9. Sagez

    Sagez It Wandered In From the Wastes

    111
    Oct 29, 2013
    Ok guys, I think that we all have some pretty decent ideas on how to make outdoorsman skill better. I'd love to see a ''trapper'' character fun&viable in the future.

    @Magnus I partly agree with your points.

    I still think that ,,hunt'' button could bring animal-only encounters.
    Yeah, gecko skins aren't very expensive, but that's the point - hunting geckos is easy and because of that inexperienced players can make some money. If high outdoorsman skill would modify the prices of animals hides (and harvested body parts in general) it would be a way better skill (for example a skilled hunter knows how to remove the skin so it won't get damaged and thus he can negotiate a better price for it).

    I don't agree on the car. Car shouldn't be regarded as a must in every playthrough. Keep in mind that stupid characters can't fully upgrade the car. Car also requires fuel. Walking should not be faster than driving, but I still think that characters with high outdoorsman could get significant bonus to movement speed because it makes sense: they know how to find better roads, they know the terrain well... also walking through mountains should be a better idea than driving through them.

    Taking radiation or health damage is a cool idea for a ,,hardcore'' mode for Fallout.

    And as far as I remember @phobos2077 has already added molerat skins via his brilliant mod, Economy and Combat Rebalance. Check it out guys! It also adds deathclaw hands and wannamingo tentacles if I'm correct.

    @Lexx has made some good points too. New animal related items could only help, but I'm not really convinced of adding new trainer npcs. If the player has really high outdoorsman it should automatically allow him to gather skins/body parts from animals (we can assume that the player learns by practice).

    In my opinion we can make outdoorsman better if:
    - we will add more animal related items (wolf pelts? mantis eggs? etc etc)
    - really high outdoorsman would increase the travel speed
    - high outdoorsman would work like Barter skill, but only to animal-related items (allowing the player to sell gecko skins and other stuff at more expensive price etc)
    - (maybe) high outdoorsman skill could get the player a better position at the start of the random encounter
    - a skilled hunter could gather more body parts (like harvesting more intact eggs from mantis abdomen)
    - higher levels of outdoorsman would allow the player to gather especially rare/fragile (or just difficult to obtain) animal body parts.
    - and yeah, Magnus idea about decreasing a chance of getting randomly radiated is also neat (if such mechanics were present in the game)
     
  10. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    953
    Dec 6, 2007
    Apologies for being cranky earlier, I've had little sleep lately. Modding initiative is always encouraged.

    I think the general opinion so far is something like this:

    A "Hunt"-button would be inordinately difficult to implement in the way it's outlined here, and is mostly for convenience rather than adding a new feature. Several other ways to improve the attractiveness of the Outdoorsman skill have been discussed, and most of these would be simpler to implement.

    So, my personal suggestion is to pursue one of these alternatives instead, but of course feel free to start with the Hunt button if the idea really appeals to you.

    I'd also like to add that Outdoorsman does serve a purpose already. It's not used *much* apart from avoiding worldmap encounters, but the fact that it *is* used for just that lets it benefit all characters, especially carless/small parties/ironman ones. It's not sexy, but it's practical.

    If you want to improve skills that are well and truly in need of improvement, have a look at Sneak or First Aid. I believe there are mods that take care of other lackluster skills like Throwing and Barter, but I've yet to see any sort of Sneak overhaul.
     
  11. Sagez

    Sagez It Wandered In From the Wastes

    111
    Oct 29, 2013
    Yes, outdoorsman is practical and sadly restricted to it's ''avoiding encounters'' role. New Vegas did it better than F1/2(dialogue options/recipes/craftable gear).
    Well, I know that Economy and Combat Rebalance mod by phobos2077 does make Sneak more useful, but I haven't tried it yet (I'm not playing a sneaky character right now).

    First Aid could be great if (imho):
    1. it could be used in combat
    2. there would be more conditions (like bleeding or being badly burned) and using first Aid would temporarily stop some unpleasant effects like bleeding to death or dying because of poison.

    First Aid and Doctor could both heal more hp as the player skill progresses.