I was never a fan of the Fallout weapon choices

W

Wounded Ronin

First time out of the vault
I was never a fan of the Fallout weapon choices. The Fallout artwork and intro really conveyed the atmosphere of the early 60s and the Cold War. Before I actually started playing a game but had seen only the intro movies and character creation graphics I imagined that the game would be filled with World War II and Korean War era weapons; 1911s, M14s, M3A1s, Mk2 pineapples, M1 garands, and so forth. Seeing as the setting was 1960s era, I was prepared to see ray guns and alien blasters a la Buck Rogers next to the old school 7.62mm slug-throwers.

When the game started me out with a 10mm pistol I was confused. 10mm has nothing at all to do with World War II or the 60s. Instead, it was adopted widely in, IIRC, the 80s or 90s after the FBI chose it to replace the .38 and 9mm sidearms which had poor stopping power. It mostly got worse from there. The game included things like .44 magnum deagles, which did not even exist in the 60s. I was expecting retro and instead I was getting fairly contemporary firearms.

I appeciated how Fallout 2 introduced M3A1s, M60s, FN FALs, and tommy guns, but then I felt that the damage codes for these weapons were weird. For some reason 7.62mm weapons uniformly did less damage than their .223 counterparts. This is extremely strange because .223 in reality actually performs a lot worse in terms of stopping power than 7.62; just read Black Hawk Down for proof.

I'm considering making a Fallout 2 mod where all of the modern guns, like the 10mm pistol, 10mm SMG, .44 deagle, and so on are replaced by early 60s technology. I feel that the game would be better with a more consistient retro feel.

Any thoughts or comments?
 
You'll find the thoughts and comments go into another direction than where you're heading.

Fallout quite conciously did not include any real life weaponry. This was to preserve the impression that while 50's Americana lifestyles were predominant before the war, technology still moved forward, hence the many 10mm guns.

Mostly it was divided between camp buck rodgers (there's an alien blaster in a random encounter) and a lot of this mondern, but unnamed weaponry. You'll notice that in Fallout 1 practically none actually have reallife brand names, they just have generic names based on their ammo type. The desert eagle might be the only exception.

Fallout 2, which you consider a step in the right direction, is considered by most a step in the wrong direction, because of the reallife weaponry.

So I appreciate your logic, but you'll find a lot of people don't agree with it. The original Fallout developers added nameless real-life weaponry as an integral part of the setting, to indicate the abovenamed. It's no mistake.
 
Jabberwocky said:
You'll find the thoughts and comments go into another direction than where you're heading.

Fallout quite conciously did not include any real life weaponry. This was to preserve the impression that while 50's Americana lifestyles were predominant before the war, technology still moved forward, hence the many 10mm guns.

Mostly it was divided between camp buck rodgers (there's an alien blaster in a random encounter) and a lot of this mondern, but unnamed weaponry. You'll notice that in Fallout 1 practically none actually have reallife brand names, they just have generic names based on their ammo type. The desert eagle might be the only exception.

Fallout 2, which you consider a step in the right direction, is considered by most a step in the wrong direction, because of the reallife weaponry.

So I appreciate your logic, but you'll find a lot of people don't agree with it. The original Fallout developers added nameless real-life weaponry as an integral part of the setting, to indicate the abovenamed. It's no mistake.
Click to expand...


Hmm, interesting. I guess I never "got" the whole "chauvanistic 50s society with better technology" vibe. But now that you've mentioned it I can see where that's coming from.

I can appreciate the idea that military technology got better while society never developed out of a jingoistic and small-minded 1950s style mould. That's actually pretty chilling, isn't it?
 
I would just like to add a third opion:
10mm Pistol: Colt 6520
Hunting Rifle: Rangemaster (seem to remember that was also a Colt, but the manual doesn't say anything more)
SMG: H&K MP9
Assult Rifle: AK112

And IIRC, every other firearm pluss I believe a few melee weapons in Fallout had a specific discription naming the developer and the model number, Watz (/s) 2000, Winchester, Sunbeam, and so on, some of them real weapons developers, some of them not.

So to the point, I don't believe any of the weapons with maybe the exception of knives and spears were suposed to be "generic" weapon types. Weather based on ammo or weapon class...

REPENT! HEATHEN SCUM! :wink:
 
Wounded Ronin said:
That's actually pretty chilling, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Yes, and it's meant to be. It's a part of the encompassing nothing changes-feel, as expressed by "war never changes"

Hence the execution of the Canadian rebel in the opening sequence. Advanced power armour, but still the same people in it.
 
Wounded Ronin said:
I can appreciate the idea that military technology got better while society never developed out of a jingoistic and small-minded 1950s style mould. That's actually pretty chilling, isn't it?
Click to expand...
On the other hand, it seems that they got rid of racism and sexism...
 
In a world where everyone can kill you just because you have a flask of water and some money, it doesn't matter what the color of the shooter's skin is ;)
 
Sorrow said:
Wounded Ronin said:
I can appreciate the idea that military technology got better while society never developed out of a jingoistic and small-minded 1950s style mould. That's actually pretty chilling, isn't it?
Click to expand...
On the other hand, it seems that they got rid of racism and sexism...
Click to expand...

Well, there's still sexism. See New Reno boxing.


EDIT: Of course, even that doesn't compare to sexism expressed in books and films from the US in the 60s. If you ever take the time to watch random US films from the 60s or 50s it's pretty mind-blowing how sexist society was at the time. It gets to the point where it's hysterically funny by today's standards because it's so stupid.
 
Sorrow said:
Wounded Ronin said:
I can appreciate the idea that military technology got better while society never developed out of a jingoistic and small-minded 1950s style mould. That's actually pretty chilling, isn't it?
Click to expand...
On the other hand, it seems that they got rid of racism and sexism...
Click to expand...

I think that is to avoid devoiding the player from any sense of connection to the gaming world.

I don't know, man, Fallout is so multi-faceted it really needs a doctorate thesis written on it.
 
Wounded Ronin said:
I was never a fan of the Fallout weapon choices. The Fallout artwork and intro really conveyed the atmosphere of the early 60s and the Cold War. Before I actually started playing a game but had seen only the intro movies and character creation graphics I imagined that the game would be filled with World War II and Korean War era weapons; 1911s, M14s, M3A1s, Mk2 pineapples, M1 garands, and so forth. Seeing as the setting was 1960s era, I was prepared to see ray guns and alien blasters a la Buck Rogers next to the old school 7.62mm slug-throwers.

When the game started me out with a 10mm pistol I was confused. 10mm has nothing at all to do with World War II or the 60s. Instead, it was adopted widely in, IIRC, the 80s or 90s after the FBI chose it to replace the .38 and 9mm sidearms which had poor stopping power. It mostly got worse from there. The game included things like .44 magnum deagles, which did not even exist in the 60s. I was expecting retro and instead I was getting fairly contemporary firearms.

I appeciated how Fallout 2 introduced M3A1s, M60s, FN FALs, and tommy guns, but then I felt that the damage codes for these weapons were weird. For some reason 7.62mm weapons uniformly did less damage than their .223 counterparts. This is extremely strange because .223 in reality actually performs a lot worse in terms of stopping power than 7.62; just read Black Hawk Down for proof.

I'm considering making a Fallout 2 mod where all of the modern guns, like the 10mm pistol, 10mm SMG, .44 deagle, and so on are replaced by early 60s technology. I feel that the game would be better with a more consistient retro feel.

Any thoughts or comments?
Click to expand...

...
You need a woman (unless you are one, than you need a man).
 
Fallout was at least in part based on the Aftermath! pencil and paper ruleset. See for yourself, except that Aftermath! Was grittily realistic in terms of the way action, skills and weapons were modeled in the game rules. I think that Fallout greatly simplified those rules for the sake of art, presentation and gameplay, however, had they stuck to the original Aftermath! game mechanics, you woiuld have seen a lot more realism.
 
Akudin said:
Fallout was at least in part based on the Aftermath! pencil and paper ruleset. See for yourself, except that Aftermath! Was grittily realistic in terms of the way action, skills and weapons were modeled in the game rules. I think that Fallout greatly simplified those rules for the sake of art, presentation and gameplay, however, had they stuck to the original Aftermath! game mechanics, you woiuld have seen a lot more realism.
Click to expand...
...
*sigh*
Fallout was originally going to use GURPS, however GURPS dropped out after learning the bloody nature of the game (Steve Jackson himself claimed it was more an action on Interplay's part, though) so the Fallout developers created a GURPS-based system in about two weeks, which was SPECIAL. They were probably influenced by every system they had so far encountered, but the basis was GURPS, not Aftermath!

Also, having thirty different shotgun shells doesn't actually add anything to the game, it just burdens the game.
 
Yeah, the shotgun shells. Valid criticism for the game. Would have been eliminated bya game engine. Not familiar at all with GURPS. Aftermath! had talents and stats generation similar to SPECIAL (will have to look at it).
 
I think that GURPS is one of the best pencil and paper role playing games for simulationist play.

I was rather disappointed when I learned that Fallout almost used the GURPS engine. I would have preferred the GURPS engine myself. Shotgun blasts to the eyes actually would have done something had that happened.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top