If they'll keep AP system...

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
As much as I like TB I think there should be an option to switch to real time until you fire a shot. Basically if combat is initiated and TB play starts then you should be able to choose to end combat and stay in real time until you initiate combat. Your opponents would still be able to attack you but unless you retaliate you don't enter TB everytime someone shoots at you. Therefore in random encounters where you're outgunned you can run away with out having to spend 20 mins getting to the exit grid, or you'd be able to talk to your NPCs, pick locks or reload your weapons.
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Why couldn't they make it so you can talk in TB anyway? Or pick locks in TB? Being able to switch back and forth to real time would create more problems than it'd solve, frankly.
 
Roshambo said:
And yet another displays no understanding of "gameplay balance", "gameplay exploits", and so on and so forth.
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Being able to override TB combat is already available in several games, but they usually revert to combat mode as soon as the enemy fires at you. Any advantages to being able to stay out of TB until you decide to return fire would be evened out by the fact that your opponents would be able to attack freely without AP restrictions.

Saint_Proverbius said:
Why couldn't they make it so you can talk in TB anyway? Or pick locks in TB? Being able to switch back and forth to real time would create more problems than it'd solve, frankly.
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I wish they would, but I'd still like to be able to refuse combat if I want to.
 
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Roshambo said:
And yet another displays no understanding of "gameplay balance", "gameplay exploits", and so on and so forth.
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Being able to override TB combat is already available in several games, but they usually revert to combat mode as soon as the enemy fires at you. Any advantages to being able to stay out of TB until you decide to return fire would be evened out by the fact that your opponents would be able to attack freely without AP restrictions.
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And yet another displays no understanding of "gameplay balance", "gameplay exploits", and so on and so forth.
 
Roshambo said:
And yet another displays no understanding of "gameplay balance", "gameplay exploits", and so on and so forth.
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I'm curious, could you explain to me the fault in his logic? Not saying I agree with him, but I'd like to know just for my information.
 
TB/REAL time switching in Arcanum ... and neither of them is good in my opinion , when you mix more that one ideea the final result is a little bit of both and usually crap ... so stick to one and try to make it work as you want... :idea:
 
Real Time combat mode in Arcanum is silly. Not only that but there are many exploits that you culd use (start comat in TB and when you finish switch to RT resulting in a freebie turn) and because of the balance problem in the game most fights didn't last long making it boring and somewhat insignificant.

The only good part about RT is that you could use it to speed up some combat that is originally boring (4 wolves or bears for the 100th time) encounters... But that mostly comes down to what I wrote above.

I cannot imagine a way to even out the balance of melee and ranged attacks in real time, it would need a strike of genius.
 
I wasn't talking about switching to Real Time Combat, but overriding the Combat mode. In some TB games you have an Exit Combat switch, which dumps you out of the Combat Mode until either you see/attack a hostile or a hostile sees or attacks you. All I was suggesting was if you choose to exit combat then you stay out of combat mode, your opponents can still shoot at you but if they do it doesn't automatically dump you back into Combat mode each time. If you want to engage them in combat then you have to re-enter combat mode. So they get the free turns not you.

But hey if it's a bad idea it's a bad idea.
 
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
I wasn't talking about switching to Real Time Combat, but overriding the Combat mode. In some TB games you have an Exit Combat switch, which dumps you out of the Combat Mode until either you see/attack a hostile or a hostile sees or attacks you. All I was suggesting was if you choose to exit combat then you stay out of combat mode, your opponents can still shoot at you but if they do it doesn't automatically dump you back into Combat mode each time. If you want to engage them in combat then you have to re-enter combat mode. So they get the free turns not you.

But hey if it's a bad idea it's a bad idea.
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That's no good.

If you are adept at point and click diablo, you might be fast enough to escape from enemies who either outnumber you or are just too good. While in TB, if you agility would be low, you wouldn't have enough APs to run away. So REAL TIME has more to do with your reflexes. That's why *caugh* you have the pause button in Baldurs Gate. Of course, you still need good reflexes to hit it.
In other words, whatever way you use real time it fucks up the balance compared to TB.
Troika really tried it in Arcanum. There were a few points that didn't make it utter crap, for example, a very slow ore golem could be gunned down or killed by other ranged means quite nicely before he reached you, while in turn based the critter had way too many APs. Then again, once he reached you in real time, his attack speed was far too great while in TB he had one attack per turn.

I'm sure my point has been said a million times before.
 
Arcanum's combat is... well it's Arcanum's combat.

I was thinking more of the situations where there are two other parties involved in combat and you don't want to take part you still are dumped into combat mode.
 
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Arcanum's combat is... well it's Arcanum's combat.

I was thinking more of the situations where there are two other parties involved in combat and you don't want to take part you still are dumped into combat mode.
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Yes, and which they'll have to make some sort of RT calculations for shot intervals, effects of attacks, health effects, etc. so on and so forth, opening up a whole new can of worms if there's things to be taken into accoung like knockdown and explosion effects.

Frankly, it puts too much into having to balance yet another time system and it also allows for far too much imbalance, exploits, or whatever that was also quite plain to see in Arcanum, X-COM: Apocalypse, and also Fallout Tactics.
 
This might be a strange question,

But why change something that works just fine?

Please, someone enlighten me...
 
Roshambo said:
Frankly, it puts too much into having to balance yet another time system and it also allows for far too much imbalance, exploits, or whatever that was also quite plain to see in Arcanum, X-COM: Apocalypse, and also Fallout Tactics.
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I missed out on Apocalypse. I played around with it for a day or so but the magic of the series was gone. My brother played on real time I recall, he said the game was much harder. There was a pause button IIRC.

Heh, funny thing is that I thanked god there was real time in FOT. I was so fucking bored with the game after a few hours that I would've never finished it if not for real time.
 
okay i havent read all post in this thred(bacose i have a reding disorder so dont flame me)

but lets face it no roleplaying game ore cpmputer-game has a fully realistic combat system and will never have, so why bother.

fallout combat works fine.
 
I'm inclined to agree with slicer here. Maybe Fallout does not NEED the most complicated and mathematicaly advanced combat system in the history of computer games, and maybe all our suggestions regarding it are good old mental masturbation. I mean, it's not like I'm completely against such systems, it's just that I don't think the monster like JA2 system belongs in Fallout game.

I'm all for fixing and tweaking the existing system, though.
 
other points of unrealisem in the fallout 2 game system:
1. save/load system (you camt load wen you die in realety)
2. xp (why can you inprowe science skill whit xp from killing monsters)
3. HP (why does a experiensed carater surwive 5 times as many bullets as a new one?)
4. carry wegt( you cant runn for long acros the desert hvit 150 pounds in your backpak)
5. portable changuns

this is just a fjew unrealistic features in the game.
ask your self. wold the game be any bether in these thing were
more realistik.
 
I't surely won't indeed, but some sense some problems with reality in playing the old fallouts. I'm at a point where I would sacrifice some gameplay for a little more reality.

Yes, they will - they are SLOW, after all. They would have to find cover to reload. And slow people shouldn't use Sniper Rifle altogether, or any other gun that takes a lot of attention. It seems to me that your view of balance here is making combat 100% same for every character .
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Like those ideas, I like that very much. However, not beeing able to distribute xp to skills you did not acquire them with...I wouldn't want to constantly fix computers for science skills.
 
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