I'll be polite but you're wrong (a Fallout 3 opinion topic)

The Dutch Ghost

The Dutch Ghost

Grouchy old man of NMA
Moderator
Hello all,

Just responded to a post of mine on an Amiga board (but in a PC forum) on a topic regarding Fallout, well actually Bethesda but it was related to Fallout.

Though I consider the head moderator a friend again I got the read the excuse that the new gameplay in Fallout 3 is progress from the original games, as apparently the old gameplay would feel 'dated' now.

How do you tell such a person politely that you feel that this opinion is wrong and that the gameplay of the 'old' Fallout is a vital part of what makes the game 'special'. (no pun intended)

Its easy to act completely pissed to the Bethesda fanboys who believe that Elders Scrolls Oblivion is the epitome of Fantasy Role Playing and believe that all Roleplaying Games should be like that.

But convincing someone you have friendly contact with, how do you make them realise that Fallout isn't just atmosphere and elements like Super Mutants and Power Armour.
 
start off with the simple fact...

tb-iso views were the first design choices on purpose, not due to any limitations of technology or anything. the original developers felt it was that important to set that in stone first. the 2nd was that they wanted it to copy a p&p feel and even tried to get the GURPS liscence because they thought that it had the best SKILL system out there.

those were the first choices made by the original devs, by not copying or honoring the first choices made by the original devs, how can any game to come out "further" in the line be called an honest-to-god sequel?
 
Err...
They got GURPS licence, but they lost it, because it's creator was making problems.

I think that real evolution would be making the turn have some reasonable length (1 second for example), more realism, more tactical choices, various positions, actions, fatigue, etc.
 
Hello,

Well I did bring up the issue of gameplay, that true evolution of the gameplay would be improving the existing one, fixing the few flaws it still has to make it more enjoyable.
Not ripping it out and replace it with something that is completely different.

The problem is, and that doesn't have to do with my conversation partner but in general, a lot of people see emulation of old style Pen and Paper RPGs as boring and slow, preferring an RPG that can be picked up faster.

In a way some of the 'RPGs' of today are more like action games in which the process has been slightly slowed down by adding statistic building elements.
Not like earlier RPG that were in a way the Pen and Paper games but then accelerated a little (no need for dice throwing), quicker response and now graphics to look at instead of a DM telling you what is going on.
 
Another imporatant thing about an RPG is that the outcome of situations in the game should depend on your character's abilities, not yours as a player. And that's reallly the entire reason why it's called Role Playing Game...
 
[quote"The Dutch Ghost"]How do you tell such a person politely that you feel that this opinion is wrong and that the gameplay of the 'old' Fallout is a vital part of what makes the game 'special'. (no pun intended) [/quote]

I'm not certain about he means by "gameplay". If he thinks multiple quest solutions, consequences of your actions in the game world, extensive dialogue options and an important character-design system is "dated", then you'll just have to come to terms with the fact that some people don't like that kind of game, and would prefer blasting ogres with nuclear catapults.

Linking him to the NMA articles on FO's design would be best.
 
TheWesDude said:
the 2nd was that they wanted it to copy a p&p feel and even tried to get the GURPS liscence because they thought that it had the best SKILL system out there.
Click to expand...

i can see why. the GURPS license is top shit.

Bethesda, they haven't even played the original fallouts which is why they're shitting it up so bad.
 
Except for, apparently, the third-string programmer who's designing the PipBoy and such. There was a link to an interview about two weeks back or so.
 
Wooz said:
I'm not certain about he means by "gameplay". If he thinks multiple quest solutions, consequences of your actions in the game world, extensive dialogue options and an important character-design system is "dated", then you'll just have to come to terms with the fact that some people don't like that kind of game, and would prefer blasting ogres with nuclear catapults.

Linking him to the NMA articles on FO's design would be best.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I say you cut this guy off completely, he obviously only likes baby games for babies and is not worthy of your time
 
compare it to diablo without the demonic style text...

without it, it severely dimishes the effect.
 
Ya know, if F3 was released in isometric view.. I think sales would plummet like a brown bag full of shit. Yes, holding it to Iso would be a hell of a homage to F1&F2 but Bethesda is gonna do what they know... shitty and robotic (unemotional) dialogue. Shit I think Killian's talk-face had more feeling than all of Oblivion's characters. So let's all just hope that people actually buy it, possibly by furthering its life by sequels and half-assed MMO's. Its all we can hope for...
 
Ehrrr, why would we want to keep something alive if we don't like it?

If anything, we should not buy the game and convince others also not to buy it, this will convince Zenimax to sell the franchise as there is no profit in it.

With perhaps some luck it gets in better hands or is finally allowed to go into retirement with some of its dignity left.
 
Well.... "with its dignity left" is sort of a lost cause at this point. Brotherhood of Steel saw to that. Though we certainly can hope that the game will bomb so badly that, as you said, Zenimax will have no choice but to sell the rights in order to remain solvent. But, hey, that's sort of speculation, and considering the behemoth of a hype machine that Bethsoft's got, sorta unlikely (pessimists, raise your hands *raises hand*).
 
Why don't you guys like change? When I played F2(I played it before F1), I FELL inlove with it. Easily, right as I got out of the Temple. It was new and completely original in my book. But for me it was the atmosphere. Fallout needs the transition in the 3d world, and even though it isn't Blackisle or Interplay, it still can be enjoyable. Shit, I bet half-the people who rant on its demise will come to love it... PLUS, I bet $1,000 it won't be as bad as Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (PS2, XBOX, PC).
 
Syphon said:
Why don't you guys like change? When I played F2(I played it before F1), I FELL inlove with it. Easily, right as I got out of the Temple. It was new and completely original in my book. But for me it was the atmosphere. Fallout needs the transition in the 3d world, and even though it isn't Blackisle or Interplay, it still can be enjoyable. Shit, I bet half-the people who rant on its demise will come to love it... PLUS, I bet $1,000 it won't be as bad as Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (PS2, XBOX, PC).
Click to expand...

It won't retain the same atmosphere because its changes are in the basic mechanics of a game. The atmosphere might be partially there, but without proper separation between player and playercharacter, well done dialogues and choice and consequence (based on experience from their previous games).

They might aswell have gone for a similar camera function as the one present in KOTOR and NWN series, it's 3D, just not 1st person.

As soon as they moved from Third person/ISO to First person they left the RPG distinction behind them and moved to LARP-ing territory, with some basic rules mimicing a RPG - but without consequences or the ability to play a dumb person (i.e. No INT modifier for dialogue ), and left originality in a pile of manure behind them to secure sales.
The game might become enjoyable, but it sure as hell won't be Fallout 3.
 
Now that I can understand. I don't think even with all the Morrowind series, Bethesda has enough experience with Fallout's RPG brain.

-I can't believe VATS is gonna be part of it. COmplete let down.

-But their is a 3rd person option, like Gears of War. Maybe some roleplaying can be salvaged.

I guess.. I'm just trying to have some hope.
 
Yea.... I started losing hope when I heard that it wasn't going to be TB..... then I totally lost all hope and joined the "waiting for the trainwreck" crowd after I read some of Rosh's info about Bethsoft and looked more into what Fallout truly was about.

My personal breaking point isn't first person, but that's got more to do with the fact that I was fine with the Wizardry series being first person. But that doesn't mean I'm okay with pasting some guns, random wreckage, and ogre-ish looking supermutants onto what's essentially TES Oblivion 2.
 
Well, for me it was when they relased info on no-vehicles(it'd be nice) or no mounts(where are all the brahmin?). Also, that INT would have no bearing on dialogue options(WTF?). But I've been waiting for a sequel since '98 and well, I'm pretty desperate to have anything remotely close... I guess the atmosphere and enviroment will all in coicidence to Oblivion 2(lol.)
 
Any chance this is all just a cruel, cruel joke and Troika is actually alive and well and hiding in a bunker on the west coast working on the ACTUAL Fallout 3 game under the code name Mystary?

Wow, wouldn't that be something? :clap:
 
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